Project 2025 and public lands and environment

[Gila]

I say this only half facetiously, but the DOI could certainly be much worse if the majority of public land is sold off to private entities with no interest in the use of the land beyond resource extraction.

Absolutely! On the other hand: “If the majority of public land is sold off to private entities with no interest in the use of the land beyond Eco-Tourism.”

 

[IdahoBeav]

This logic is skirting close to “all taxation is theft” territory, which is a fun idea to throw around when you’re living far from the support of most federally funded programs, but basically disintegrates the Union if taken to its logical conclusion. Voluntary-tax-only societies are like communism; if you ask its supporters why it’s never worked at large scale they’ll try to tell you it’s only because it has never been tried.

There are a ton of user-fee programs in the US.

 

[IdahoBeav]

The average American is infinitely better off than where we were 100+ years ago. The dollar is a stronger global currency than 100+ years ago. Our security and quality of life is better than 100+ years ago. Our global economic, scientific, and power standings are vastly better than 100+ years ago.

So if we are failing it’s certainly not clear and utter. Maybe challenge that narrative by looking around.

The federal government doesn't get that credit. The private sector does.

 

[Loo.wii]

The average American is infinitely better off than where we were 100+ years ago. The dollar is a stronger global currency than 100+ years ago. Our security and quality of life is better than 100+ years ago. Our global economic, scientific, and power standings are vastly better than 100+ years ago.

So if we are failing it’s certainly not clear and utter. Maybe challenge that narrative by looking around.

Less people are treated as second class citizens. women can have bank accounts and own property etc......

 

[MuleyFever]

The federal government doesn't get that credit. The private sector does.

Actually, it would be a mix of the government and the private sector.

 

[PLhunter]

Many dudes here spending $10k a year on hunting gear, suppressors, etc.. when 100 years ago multiple pairs of shoes was considered a luxury. Elk were practically nonexistent. The failure of our economic system is overstated and the popularized proposed fixes here have littler merit in reversing the issues faced.

Back to conservation though.

 

[Loo.wii]

The federal government doesn't get that credit. The private sector does.

consumer protections? Don't you remember when executives from philip morris testified in front of congress that cigarettes Don't cause cancer? they lied under oath. this is a bit of a side bar but the government is certainly effective at protecting people(sometimes) I dont remember a time ever that corps have had the best interest of anyone except share holders in mind.

 

[PLhunter]

Actually, it would be a mix of the government and the private sector.

People have no idea how successful the grant and subsidies system has been for keeping us globally competitive. Bootstraps being pulled up by our collective private and public might.

 

[PredatoronthePrairie]

Talk about an eco chamber.

 

[Loo.wii]

Talk about an eco chamber.

cute dog

 

[Hnthrdr]

I’m very conservative, very small government, also a veteran and a native of a western state. Mike Lee is an idiot when it comes to public land and the real thing that makes America next level great is our public land, and natural beauty and resources. Also anyone that thinks they will get their favorite 1500 acre drainage for cheap think again. It will be bought and you will be locked out of it. Public land is fanatics and I will fight tooth and nail to ensure that we keep what we have.

 

[PLhunter]

I’m very conservative, very small government, also a veteran and a native of a western state. Mike Lee is an idiot when it comes to public land and the real thing that makes America next level great is our public land, and natural beauty and resources. Also anyone that thinks they will get their favorite 1500 acre drainage for cheap think again. It will be bought and you will be locked out of it. Public land is fanatics and I will fight tooth and nail to ensure that we keep what we have.

Amen and thank you. What point would have to be crossed in order for you to march or even “Bundy” to protect those lands and stand up for our resource? Personally, I think it will start slow. With rolling back some bedrock environmental protections. Then trimming wilderness and roadless areas. Eventually transitioning to open extraction and finally to selling. What is your view on Bristol Bay and just rights to have salmon etc..? I feel like that is a good barometer for conservation.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Amen and thank you. What point would have to be crossed in order for you to march or even “Bundy” to protect those lands and stand up for our resource? Personally, I think it will start slow. With rolling back some bedrock environmental protections. Then trimming wilderness and roadless areas. Eventually transitioning to open extraction and finally to selling. What is your view on Bristol Bay and just rights to have salmon etc..? I feel like that is a good barometer for conservation.

Bristol Bay seems like a giant can of worms that shouldn’t be touched, ie risk isn’t worth reward. As far as extraction. I’m not totally against it. Needs to be strictly managed but here in Co we have seen first hand on what happens when we just let forests rot with little to no logging. We get monster fires now that burn hotter and are more destructive to habitat instead of healing. I absolutely hate a lot of motorized recreation, but i understand that I don’t get everything I want. My final straw is when they start locking us out and mark it for sale. I think we have a ways to go before that and it’s not all one sided, the “left” is guilty of trying to throw solar panels all over winter range and that would effectively lock us out of all of it.

 

[HighUintas]

I think the Utah folks that support Mike Lee and the transfer of public lands to state don't think that they will lose much if that happens. Many of them love riding their ATVs and sxs wherever they want, love shooting wherever they want, love doing whatever they want on public land. All that many of them see is the declaration of some piece of BLM or FS turned to national monument or closed to ATV traffic to protect archaeological areas or areas sensitive to the burden of high motorized traffic. They already don't like big fed government, so when that happens they just see "public land bad" and "state will protect my right to do whatever I want on this land".

They don't see the likelihood of it being sold off, setting a precedent that lands can be transferred and sold, the state can't afford to manage all that land, and they/their children eventually lose what they enjoyed.

Private land in the Midwest is totally different from private land in the west. The whitetails are like rodents. You can purchase a 40 acre parcel, sometimes affordably for the middle income family, get free landowner tags for deer, turkey etc every year and have a blast hunting on your piece. The west has vast swaths where there's very little game holding capacity through the whole year. The stuff that does.... Well a middle income family would be lucky to own 10 acres of it.

 

[Loo.wii]

I’m very conservative, very small government, also a veteran and a native of a western state. Mike Lee is an idiot when it comes to public land and the real thing that makes America next level great is our public land, and natural beauty and resources. Also anyone that thinks they will get their favorite 1500 acre drainage for cheap think again. It will be bought and you will be locked out of it. Public land is fanatics and I will fight tooth and nail to ensure that we keep what we have.

Say it again!!! AMEN friend

 

[Ozarkansas]

There are a ton of user-fee programs in the US.

Yeah but no user-fee governments. Some aspects of the government (policing, military, large scale infrastructure projects) will never be viable with user-fee models.

What the federal government has determined it to be for the last 100+ years has been a clear and utter failure.

I don’t see how you can call it a failure yet. The last 100 years have seen the largest boom in quality of life, economic output, and global hegemony in world history. We’re the most successful country on earth by most metrics, and we have way more liberties than historical superpowers (Rome, Mongols, British, and China).

The federal government doesn't get that credit. The private sector does

Both get credit for the good that has happened in this country, and blame for the bad. The federal government has been the driving force in tons of advancements and the private sector has been responsible for its share of economic woes.

 

[Kramerica3]

IMO its a very selfish approach. Public land isnt just for hunting. hikers, dirt bikers long range shooting. not everything hast to be pillaged and squeezed for every dime. no disrespect but this is a very " **** you i got mine" perspective. Try using a bit of empathy.

Cool story bro

 

[TaperPin]

The whackadoodle Project 25 will be consistent with what the oligarchs are after this presidential term - to cut anything and everything to up the amount of tax cuts they can do for the top 1%. It’s cute that you think anyone gives two nickels about outdoorsmen or actual professional management as we’ve traditionally had. Don’t expect gravel roads to be worth a darn, or Forest Service shitters to be usable.

It amazes me that they have convinced so many people that they are looking out for our best interest. Food prices haven’t come down. Inflation is up already. WTF?

 

[PLhunter]

Bristol Bay seems like a giant can of worms that shouldn’t be touched, ie risk isn’t worth reward. As far as extraction. I’m not totally against it. Needs to be strictly managed but here in Co we have seen first hand on what happens when we just let forests rot with little to no logging. We get monster fires now that burn hotter and are more destructive to habitat instead of healing. I absolutely hate a lot of motorized recreation, but i understand that I don’t get everything I want. My final straw is when they start locking us out and mark it for sale. I think we have a ways to go before that and it’s not all one sided, the “left” is guilty of trying to throw solar panels all over winter range and that would effectively lock us out of all of it.

The solar panels require the will to change the electrical codes. To get rid of the fencing requirements. There are other means of security. In arid lands they have been shown to improve vegetation conditions but none of that freaking matters if everything that can eat it is locked out!

Individually I’m more of the mindset of what has been lost is already way too much. In striking a balance between economy and environment we’ve globally greatly prioritized economy. But extraction is a reality and I’m more of the mindset of offsets being required. Think trumps 10 regulations for every new one but for conservation. Fires are tough it’s hotter longer in the summer. In Oregon that’s been our biggest indicator of fire severity and we are even seeing clear cuts blown right through with fire due to heat and wind. Freedom to and freedom from. Considering almost all our public land is within a mile of a road I think we could strike balance with more roadless.

Regardless, I fear if we wait until gates are locked too many checks and balances will have fallen to stop it. I think the fight needs to start early and often.

 

[TaperPin]

It’s also cute that any talk about privatizing anything would benefit anyone other than the oligarch behind it who’s been essentially given another means to suck money out of the middle class.

Every week I hope things get better with the new administration and all they seem to do is create chaos with no real results that actually help us.