Project 2025 and public lands and environment

[PLhunter]

Who is paying for the public land we hunt? Are all taxpayers coerced into paying for it? Are we just printing money to pay for it?

It was bought pretty damn cheap in deals that were great for the country. Consider all but the maintenance cost paid for. Coercion would be the wrong word considering how our funds are appropriated. When appropriated through means spelled out in the Constitution calling it coercion is a stretch. I’m no more coerced to paying for reseeding than I am paying for armored teslas. One I support a lot more and benefit a lot more from though. Better value.

In the broad budgetary considerations the source of the income is interesting. We will see but I’m going to guess that the you and me’s pay essentially the same thing into the system even with cuts to services and if public lands are all sold to corps we will still likely pay essentially the same.

So if I’m paying the same in I think that having public lands is a better value for that input than paying the same and not having it. Try to get rid of what doesn’t have value sure. But public lands provide excellent value for the dollars in,

 

[PLhunter]

@PLhunter you seem to have accidentally posted a conservation topic in the “complain about predators” subforum. I recommend you contact the mods about getting it moved.

Seriously though, I’ve never understood the anti-public land mindset some people have. I get guys who are positioned to make a ton of money off public lands sell-offs, but why does any average American want to get rid of these lands? Their logic seems to be as simple as “govt=bad, and public lands=govt, therefore public lands=bad”. It completely ignores the reality that these resources are an incredible blessing that are generally well managed, while accepting at face value the arguments of the people who directly benefit from sell-offs.

Oh yeah, **** wolves or whatever I gotta say to keep this up.

 

[MuleyFever]

I’d like to see a very small amount of public land. I’d rather see the land be returned to the people.

I dont get this. Public lands are lands for the people. They belong to the people now. Selling them off to individuals is the oposite of returning them to the people.

 

[PLhunter]

I don't think that phrase means what you think it does.

Also, the people had their pick of the land and the government had it first through purchasing the land. Private folks didn’t buy it originally, the gov did. So there is no “returning” argument to be had.

 

[PLhunter]

I dont get this. Public lands are lands for the people. They belong to the people now. Selling them off to individuals is the oposite of returning them to the people.

Exactly, I don’t go hunt or hike public lands and say… I can’t wait until we get this back finally….

 

[Kramerica3]

No

Also, the people had their pick of the land and the government had it first through purchasing the land. Private folks didn’t buy it originally, the gov did. So there is no “returning” argument to be had.

Not entirely true. FDR took a lot of land via eminent domain and added them to parks.

 

[Kramerica3]

Exactly, I don’t go hunt or hike public lands and say… I can’t wait until we get this back finally….

I see what you’re saying but if youbought a chunk of land that’s returning it to the people. Isn’t rokslide as a whole the same place people bitch about too many hunters on public land? And if it’s truly all our land then let’s get rid of resident tags and cheaper tags for residents while we are at it.

 

[PLhunter]

To those who even fully and religiously support this administration. Can we at least agree on some hypothetical red line that you’ll band with other hunters and fight should it be crossed? Is selling public lands that line? Is declassifying wilderness that line? Is open season for foreign extraction that line? Where is it and what can we do once that line is crossed. As a united group.

 

[IdahoBeav]

It was bought pretty damn cheap in deals that were great for the country. Consider all but the maintenance cost paid for. Coercion would be the wrong word considering how our funds are appropriated. When appropriated through means spelled out in the Constitution calling it coercion is a stretch. I’m no more coerced to paying for reseeding than I am paying for armored teslas. One I support a lot more and benefit a lot more from though. Better value.

In the broad budgetary considerations the source of the income is interesting. We will see but I’m going to guess that the you and me’s pay essentially the same thing into the system even with cuts to services and if public lands are all sold to corps we will still likely pay essentially the same.

So if I’m paying the same in I think that having public lands is a better value for that input that paying the same and not having it. Try to get rid of what doesn’t have value sure. But public lands provide excellent value for the dollars in,

If coercion isn't the right word, I don't know what is. Tell me what happens if one doesn't pay his taxes? What is the DOI's annual receipts? Maintenance isn't cheap. I don't have a problem paying to use the land, but I can only speak for myself. There are millions of taxpayers that do not use public lands. Why should they be forced to pay for your and my recreation?

 

[PLhunter]

I see what you’re saying but if youbought a chunk of land that’s returning it to the people. Isn’t rokslide as a whole the same place people bitch about too many hunters on public land? And if it’s truly all our land then let’s get rid of resident tags and cheaper tags for residents while we are at it.

I disagree with me buying land returning it to the people. It’s me having it. Not “the people”. I’m not one of those people so that’s not an argument I’m going to address.

 

[Ozarkansas]

I see what you’re saying but if youbought a chunk of land that’s returning it to the people. Isn’t rokslide as a whole the same place people bitch about too many hunters on public land? And if it’s truly all our land then let’s get rid of resident tags and cheaper tags for residents while we are at it.

Generally it’s agreed upon by state and federal governments that although the federal government might own* the land, the wildlife is owned* by the state. Getting rid of resident vs nonresident tags would mean we’re deciding that the feds own the animals too. I somehow doubt you’d support further centralizing things at the federal level.


*technically, with both land and animals, the government is “holding it in trust” for us. So it’s ours, but they manage access. Since a state is holding wildlife in trust for the residents of the state, they generally can decide who gets to hunt them and how much to charge.

 

[Loo.wii]

To those who even fully and religiously support this administration. Can we at least agree on some hypothetical red line that you’ll band with other hunters and fight should it be crossed? Is selling public lands that line? Is declassifying wilderness that line? Is open season for foreign extraction that line? Where is it and what can we do once that line is crossed. As a united group.

Its unfortunate that there are a cohort of my fellow Americans that want to see our beautiful wilderness chopped up into little parcels and sold off. I have quite a few friends who are from places where public land barely doesn't exists like texas.... or Europe. My GF had not ever seen a deer in her life until she was 23 as there is no public land in her country of birth and all game has been extirpated. I think theres a general lack of foresight in those individuals and a broad ignorance to what does happen if public land is made private.

 

[PLhunter]

If coercion isn't the right word, I don't know what is. Tell me what happens if one doesn't pay his taxes? What is the DOI's annual receipts? Maintenance isn't cheap. I don't have a problem paying to use the land, but I can only speak for myself. There are millions of taxpayers that do not use public lands. Why should they be forced to pay for your and my recreation?

Depends on resources what happens if you don’t pay taxes. That’s literally all funding and is required to make everything work. If each individual picked and chose what was paid for individually it wouldn’t match up with the Constitution and rural America simply would not exist with any infrastructure at all.

People are forgetting what being American means. E. Pluribus unum.

 

[PLhunter]

No

Not entirely true. FDR took a lot of land via eminent domain and added them to parks.

More acreage during that era, by far, was used for war materials and manufacturing, airports, and defense installations. The national parks are hard to argue against in my opinion but less of the topic here than hunting lands.

 

[Kramerica3]

There could be ways the state manages the game still while doing away with resident tags but I get your point. State could still control tag prices and volume of tags just set a blind draw then. You’d almost have to set a limit then on how many you could draw from state to state. Just throwing it out there. Again I’m not pro public land in its current form but imo that would be a fairer system to all hunters.

It’s unfortunate that there are a cohort of my fellow Americans that want to see our beautiful wilderness chopped up into little parcels and sold off. I have quite a few friends who are from places where public land barely doesn't exists like texas.... or Europe. My GF had not ever seen a deer in her life until she was 23 as there is no public land in her country of birth and all game has been extirpated. I think theres a general lack of foresight in those individuals and a broad ignorance to what does happen if public land is made private.

I disagree. I’m from an area of mostly private land. Great hunting here. Depends how it’s managed and the mindset.

 

[IdahoBeav]

Depends on resources what happens if you don’t pay taxes. That’s literally all funding and is required to make everything work. If each individual picked and chose what was paid for individually it wouldn’t match up with the Constitution and rural America simply would not exist with any infrastructure at all.

People are forgetting what being American means. E. Pluribus unum.

If you don't pay your taxes, you will be arrested and imprisoned. Resist, and you will be killed. Also, everything isn't "working." The federal government prints trillions of dollars every year, lessening the value of your dollar.

As for the Constitution, what is the "general welfare of the United States". What the federal government has determined it to be for the last 100+ years has been a clear and utter failure.

 

[Ozarkansas]

If coercion isn't the right word, I don't know what is. Tell me what happens if one doesn't pay his taxes? What is the DOI's annual receipts? Maintenance isn't cheap. I don't have a problem paying to use the land, but I can only speak for myself. There are millions of taxpayers that do not use public lands. Why should they be forced to pay for your and my recreation?

This logic is skirting close to “all taxation is theft” territory, which is a fun idea to throw around when you’re living far from the support of most federally funded programs, but basically disintegrates the Union if taken to its logical conclusion. Voluntary-tax-only societies are like communism; if you ask its supporters why it’s never worked at large scale they’ll try to tell you it’s only because it has never been tried.

 

[Loo.wii]

There could be ways the state manages the game still while doing away with resident tags but I get your point. State could still control tag prices and volume of tags just set a blind draw then. You’d almost have to set a limit then on how many you could draw from state to state. Just throwing it out there. Again I’m not pro public land in its current form but imo that would be a fairer system to all hunters.

I disagree. I’m from an area of mostly private land. Great hunting here. Depends how it’s managed and the mindset.

IMO its a very selfish approach. Public land isnt just for hunting. hikers, dirt bikers long range shooting. not everything hast to be pillaged and squeezed for every dime. no disrespect but this is a very " **** you i got mine" perspective. Try using a bit of empathy.

 

[Loo.wii]

If you don't pay your taxes, you will be arrested and imprisoned. Resist, and you will be killed. Also, everything isn't "working." The federal government prints trillions of dollars every year, lessening the value of your dollar.

As for the Constitution, what is the "general welfare of the United States". What the federal government has determined it to be for the last 100+ years has been a clear and utter failure.

*unless you're rich

 

[PLhunter]

As for the Constitution, what is the "general welfare of the United States". What the federal government has determined it to be for the last 100+ years has been a clear and utter failure

The average American is infinitely better off than where we were 100+ years ago. The dollar is a stronger global currency than 100+ years ago. Our security and quality of life is better than 100+ years ago. Our global economic, scientific, and power standings are vastly better than 100+ years ago.

So if we are failing it’s certainly not clear and utter. Maybe challenge that narrative by looking around.