Private land access vs fully guided hunt

[wabash503]

Just curious how many NR hunters would prefer a lower cost option to get access to private land vs want a higher cost fully guided experience? I know a lot of land owners/farmers who could use the extra income here around Manhattan KS. Thanks for your input.

 

[Yoder]

For whitetails I would rather kill something on my own, than use a guide. I like the idea of having access to the land and everything else is up to me.

 

[wabash503]

For whitetails I would rather kill something on my own, than use a guide. I like the idea of having access to the land and everything else is up to me.

I think there's probably a lot of folks thinking the same thing... Just need to find a way of connecting them with the landowners in my area. Hopefully more people will speak up on here, so I have some good information to share with my friends and extended network.

 

[gjs4]

I just paid as much for a non guide Iowa zone 5 hunt access as a guided one would cost. Why? Its not just Im not a fan of guides....but they run a business and that often has deceit. Just me and my pride though.

 

[wabash503]

If you guys wouldn't mind, please let me know what you'd budget for a DIY private land access type of hunt. Thx

 

[kcormack]

$444 per week

 

[Scottyboy]

$444 per week

Where (generally speaking) are you finding a rate that cheap?

 

[Kurts86]

Where (generally speaking) are you finding a rate that cheap?

I’m guessing 40 acres booked solid weekly Labor Day thru Christmas.

 

[LongWayAround]

I would pay for access rather than a guide. If there were a few well places stands or blinds that would be cool, but I don't want to have my hand held all day.

"Most people" probably want the whole thing outfitted so they don't have to camp, etcetera.

 

[kcormack]

OP phrased it as a question, he just forgot the ?.
In regard to mid-western states I base my budget quote.
I sense the op is investigating a business opportunity and I wish him well!

 

[wabash503]

OP phrased it as a question, he just forgot the ?.
In regard to mid-western states I base my budget quote.
I sense the op is investigating a business opportunity and I wish him well!

Just trying to help local landowners/farmers. My motivation is to see them get more involved in conservation again by connecting them with hunters who want a more DIY experience, and I think it's a situation where both could help each other.

 

[Rich M]

OP seems to be wanting to make a business out of this - he's gonna be the lease finder/maker. He needs to do some research and see how popular this is. There are already week-long leases being listed somewhere.

Also - OP - if you are leasing, you need to figure in insurance and lease contracts the farmers and the leasing hunters.

And the rich Dr. is gonna go behind your back and offer farmer an load of $ after he shoots a big one off the farm.



I know 3 guys who do the travel lease thing regular - IL, KS, NE and shoot some nice deer. They got a 180+ and a couple 120-140s first time on one place and the owner doubled the rate and hung a picture of the big buck on his ad.



Question for OP and everyone else - when does a piece of private become over-hunted and no better than public?

 

[wabash503]

OP seems to be wanting to make a business out of this - he's gonna be the lease finder/maker. He needs to do some research and see how popular this is. There are already week-long leases being listed somewhere.

Also - OP - if you are leasing, you need to figure in insurance and lease contracts the farmers and the leasing hunters.

And the rich Dr. is gonna go behind your back and offer farmer an load of $ after he shoots a big one off the farm.



I know 3 guys who do the travel lease thing regular - IL, KS, NE and shoot some nice deer. They got a 180+ and a couple 120-140s first time on one place and the owner doubled the rate and hung a picture of the big buck on his ad.



Question for OP and everyone else - when does a piece of private become over-hunted and no better than public?

Posted this earlier..."Just trying to help local landowners/farmers. My motivation is to see them get more involved in conservation again by connecting them with hunters who want a more DIY experience, and I think it's a situation where both could help each other."

Not sure what others experience is, but what I have seen in the last 30 years is equipment, fuel, seed, fertilizer... All the cost of running a farm, have gone up disproportionately to the commodities they produce and sell. The result has been that farmers now cultivate every square inch they can and bail absolutely everything, which leaves no habitat for the wildlife to flourish.

And I don't think they all have to sign up with a big time outfitter to see the benefit of hunting ace conservation again. So this is more me taking some time to find good people I canthen refer to the farmers/have owners I personally know in here North Central Kansas. I've hunted with these people since I was 7 years old, and as a group we would each give a combined gift of about 500 back then.

But the NRs on here that would like to develop those kinds of relationships don't have the opportunity to, unless someone like me can get them connected. So that's what I'm trying to do. And hopefully it catches and somewhat restores a local commitment to conservation and relationships with hunters.

Financially, I think it needs to provide enough incentive for the farmer to wait until seasons have ended to cut and bail the remaining grasses and cover. Before I get that far down the road though, I want to see how much support there is from DIY hunters and what they consider a fair amount.

My real job is actually quite similar, working for a non profit in resource development/management. This is just something I loved as a kid, want to see others enjoy and don't mind giving some time/energy to accomplish. It's a worthwhile thing to do.

 

[Kurts86]

Regardless of how good your intentions are you are dealing with big deer and money which will both bring out the worst in people. It’s only a matter of time before people start pulling shady stuff and burning bridges.

I have a hard time believing most KS farmers have not already been offered $$$$ for access at some point recently. You may certainly have a higher likelihood of negotiating access with local connections but I doubt it’s an untapped market.

Kansas already has the WIHA program doing similar things. My question is what do you see as the issues with that system?

 

[Sierra Hunter]

It depends on acreage, deer #’s, habitat, other hunters etc. For a solid property I could get lost on I’d feel that 1k sounds reasonable

 

[Rich M]

everything is disproportionately elevated right now. Costs are crazy.

I think if a farmer could do an annual or season lease, it might be good for them. Trying to deal with non-local hunters every week or two just sounds like a recipe for disaster for the farmer.

Let's just say that hunters are 50/50 upstanding vs not so upstanding. The upstanding guys will make anyone proud and get invited back. The other guys ruin it for everyone in about 15 minutes - gates left open, litter, nails in trees, poaching, shooting towards farmhouse, livestock or expensive farm equipment, etc.

My wife used to work for non-profit and we're aware of the volunteers that make those things work. Kudos to you for that. I'm just leery of anything that invites unknown people - my 50/50 reference above is probably more like 20/80 or 30/70.

The farmer might have a rule and the guy has 2 days left, not coming back... makes me shiver.

I have seen a thing where farmer was leasing out a house like Air B&B style and allowed full trespass to his farm for hunting turkey. Was like $4,500/week w 2 people max. He was doing it 3 times a season.

 

[wabash503]

Regardless of how good your intentions are you are dealing with big deer and money which will both bring out the worst in people. It’s only a matter of time before people start pulling shady stuff and burning bridges.

I have a hard time believing most KS farmers have not already been offered $$$$ for access at some point recently. You may certainly have a higher likelihood of negotiating access with local connections but I doubt it’s an untapped market.

Kansas already has the WIHA program doing similar things. My question is what do you see as the issues with that system?

Seems like you're asking me could questions...

1. This seems clear... What's wrong with WIHA and how would this be different?

WIHA isn't all it's cracked up to be. Used to be a great program, but more and more farmers aren't using it because it only pays $2.50/acre. In other words, not worth it. Also, there isn't much regulation on these properties to maintain habitat. So a farmer can enroll in it and then harvest and bail everything to the ground. This isn't to be confused with CRP, which isn't much better and doesn't really equate to good habitat for big game.

2. Why aren't more farmers leasing their land to outfitters... Or something to that effect.

Outfitters are looking for larger tracts of land so they can book more clients. I think the difference here is the people I know aren't what I would call corporate farmers. They own and farm 1200 acres or less, and it's non-contiguous most times. These are the farmers that would benefit the most from a relationship with DIY hunters.

 

[Scottf270]

My ideal situation would be to find a decent sized, quality property that I could lease exclusively for the season that holds the quality of animal I'm after. I would not be interested in a weekly hunt where someone is hunting there everyday.

I would be willing to pay more for that exclusive access. Problem is a broker and the landowner could probably make more by selling weekly access. The hunting would suffer and most wouldn't return, but new suckers are born everyday.

If the farmer or anyone taking a cut of the money is okay with making less per acre over a hunting season, a limited lease would provide better hunting and cause less headaches and disruption for the farmer. It would also set up long term relationships if people renew their access because the huntings good.

 

[loganwayne]

I feel like this would work better for you with game birds. There aren't trophies per say compared to deer. And for whatever reason no one cares about them as much. I've gotten 0 private spots outta start hunting for deer. And probably 80% of the time I get permission to bird hunt

 

[wabash503]

everything is disproportionately elevated right now. Costs are crazy.

I think if a farmer could do an annual or season lease, it might be good for them. Trying to deal with non-local hunters every week or two just sounds like a recipe for disaster for the farmer.

Let's just say that hunters are 50/50 upstanding vs not so upstanding. The upstanding guys will make anyone proud and get invited back. The other guys ruin it for everyone in about 15 minutes - gates left open, litter, nails in trees, poaching, shooting towards farmhouse, livestock or expensive farm equipment, etc.

My wife used to work for non-profit and we're aware of the volunteers that make those things work. Kudos to you for that. I'm just leery of anything that invites unknown people - my 50/50 reference above is probably more like 20/80 or 30/70.

The farmer might have a rule and the guy has 2 days left, not coming back... makes me shiver.

I have seen a thing where farmer was leasing out a house like Air B&B style and allowed full trespass to his farm for hunting turkey. Was like $4,500/week w 2 people max. He was doing it 3 times a season.

I think thats where this being a personal initiative comes in handy. I don't have to really worry about catering to everyone to turn a profit. I just have to find decent people to connect with my friends.