Precision with a Sporter stock? Or sporting with a precision stock?

[CruzControl]

First Rokslide post here!

I'm building my first high end rifle and need some perspective. It's in 6.5 PRC off a Tikka action, and will hopefully weigh ~8lb. While it'll see pretty diverse uses, the focus is mule deer in open country as well as learning to push out to greater (ethical) distances. The goal is consistent shots around 500yd and practice beyond that, in time, if I feel capable of it.

Having only used sporter stocks, I pick up precision-focussed models with their vertical grips, palms swells, and width, and they feel unwieldy. I'm open to learning to love them but my question is this:

Do you use traditional sporter stocks at these distances? Can one learn to ring steel way the heck out there? Or should I take the loss of handiness and learn to use something more modern? I understand the features of a precision stock that make it desirable, but I want to be sure I'm not falling into the hype if folks are out there making similar shots with more old-school builds.

 

[wind gypsy]

Yes, one can shoot well at distance with a traditional shaped stock. It's just easier to execute good trigger presses and and avoid imparting inconsistent forces on the rifle with grips designed around shooting rather than carrying.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what "handiness" you're most focused on? I will concede that the close to trigger vertical grip on something like a rokstok makes a rifle slightly less comfortable to carry in certain fashions but it's not really that different. I think it's just the lack of a recess behind the pistol grip that makes it a little less ergonomic to cradle carry. There are other vertical grip stocks where this is not the case.

I used to hunt with primarily traditional sporter stocks but i shoot so much more with stocks made for shooting now that I cant bring myself to want to stick to a traditional stock.

There are some that are a good balance. That Peak 44 blacktooth is one that I think facilitates shooting and traditional handling well.

 

[CruzControl]

I think the precision style stocks are wider, bulkier, and less easy for me to hold onto when moving for me. That, and their inherent weight, which of course is also a plus for shooting.

They also tend to have too far of a grip to trigger distance for me to use as intended, and I have to hover my hand in front of the grip surface. So I wonder if I'm actually getting all of their benefit.

 

[wind gypsy]

I think the precision style stocks are wider, bulkier, and less easy for me to hold onto when moving for me. That, and their inherent weight, which of course is also a plus for shooting.

They also tend to have too far of a grip to trigger distance for me to use as intended, and I have to hover my hand in front of the grip surface. So I wonder if I'm actually getting all of their benefit.

I'm with ya 100% on most of the grips. For a long time the vertical grip on many common stocks has been a waste for me because they are too far from the trigger to make good use of anyway. The position of the grip is more important than being vertical vs swept IMO.

There are getting to be more options with more thoughtful grips that aren't blocky/chunky now. Rokstok, peak 44 bastion and blacktooth are some examples.

 

[Luvbowhuntn]

if shooting supported by a bipod, tripod, bags, or any rest the vertical grips are the way to go. If you intend on doing much freehand shooting 100% go with a shorter style stock. I hate shooting freehand with my vertical grip stocks. It just feels really awkward in hand

 

[CruzControl]

Offhand shots are always a possibility, but I tend to take more prone or seated off a tall bipod. Vert grip helps for sure, but yes, only when close enough.

Bastion is super interesting to me. I even handled some in person. I'm just worried about that curved recoil pad, which cannot easily be replaced due to the matching curve of the stock itself. If not for that, I'd own one already!

 

[Tanner]

IMO there are some pretty happy mediums; stocks for me like the Stocky’s VG and P44 Bastion are comfortable both prone and seated. I don’t practice offhand nearly as much as I should so I won’t offer my opinion there. Both are nice to carry in hand, are as light or lighter than a lot of high quality CF sporters, and the vertical grips feel excellent to me in the prone and seated off a tripod positions.

The difference in comfort when going from those to something like my Kimber Montana is evident, although I can still shoot that Montana very well prone, and prefer it over the others for a utility backpacking and killing rifle.

Tanner

 

[Tanner]

Offhand shots are always a possibility, but I tend to take more prone or seated off a tall bipod. Vert grip helps for sure, but yes, only when close enough.

Bastion is super interesting to me. I even handled some in person. I'm just worried about that curved recoil pad, which cannot easily be replaced due to the matching curve of the stock itself. If not for that, I'd own one already!

Understand the concern on the weird pad on the Bastion, but unless you’re shooting an absolute boomer, I would call it a non issue. It’s proven a very comfortable and shootable stock for me on a pretty light and snappy 25 PRC.

 

[CruzControl]

Good feedback from everyone - thank you!

Nice to hear that the bastion has been ok. I'll be shooting suppressed or with a muzzle break, so I don't expect too much recoil from the 6.5 PRC. For those that have shot it, how's muzzle rise when prone?

I've been deciding between the AG privateer, the Peak 44 Bastion and the seldom seen Benchmark Ibex.

 

[Macintosh]

I dont find offhand shots problematic with a vertical grip or a shorter trigger reach. Imo a sporter stock is a lot about carrying comfort. Example, the stockys vg mentioned above is fine for shooting but it carries terribly—the huge angular nose on the comb prevents a comfortable thumb wrap, which makes it far inferior to any sporter stock when carrying it at port arms or one-handed by the grip. If thats a non-issue how you hunt it makes things easier. If its a big deal for how you hunt then there are a few stocks that combine good carrying comfort with many of the carrying features of a sporter stock. As someone who geeks out on stock design Rokstock is probably the most shooting-focused stock that still has an eye to carryability in the profile, I havent used one but it appears to do a good job in this regard. Theres a few others but mostly those give up the flat bottom surface which is an aid for shooting off a bag or rest.

 

[Tanner]

I dont find offhand shots problematic with a vertical grip or a shorter trigger reach. Imo a sporter stock is a lot about carrying comfort. Example, the stockys vg mentioned above is fine for shooting but it carries terribly—the huge angular nose on the comb prevents a comfortable thumb wrap, which makes it far inferior to any sporter stock when carrying it at port arms or one-handed by the grip. If thats a non-issue how you hunt it makes things easier. If its a big deal for how you hunt then there are a few stocks that combine good carrying comfort with many of the carrying features of a sporter stock. As someone who geeks out on stock design Rokstock is probably the most shooting-focused stock that still has an eye to carryability in the profile, I havent used one but it appears to do a good job in this regard. Theres a few others but mostly those give up the flat bottom surface which is an aid for shooting off a bag or rest.

I guess I’m not totally following on why the VG and similar stocks carry poorly. I’ve carried them in hand and slung for a lot of miles and haven’t had any complaints.

Edit: missed the part about at port arms or one handed. That makes sense.

 

[Tanner]

Good feedback from everyone - thank you!

Nice to hear that the bastion has been ok. I'll be shooting suppressed or with a muzzle break, so I don't expect too much recoil from the 6.5 PRC. For those that have shot it, how's muzzle rise when prone?

I've been deciding between the AG privateer, the Peak 44 Bastion and the seldom seen Benchmark Ibex.

Slightly negative comb makes muzzle flip for me almost non existent even with a shortish barreled PRC. Even better with a can, as most things are.

Privateer is an excellent stock too and I really enjoyed mine.

 

[wind gypsy]

Look at how they make those biathalon stocks without vertical grips so they can be shot well off hand..

 

[noKnees]

I dont really have trouble with vertical grips for off hand shooting. They seem fine for off hand either on the ground or from a tree stand. One thing that is an issue for me is LOP. A lot of my off hand hunting is done in fairly cold weather and I like a pretty short LOP both compensate for the clothes and in the treestand when I have to shoot twisted around to the right. , If I use that shorter LOP down in the prone I have to be very careful not to crawl the stock and if its a kicker not to get scoped.

The one place I don't like the vertical grip in when the hunting style requires carring the rifle in the ready position for extended periods of time, the vertical grips feel awkward to me in that application.

 

[CruzControl]

Slightly negative comb makes muzzle flip for me almost non existent even with a shortish barreled PRC. Even better with a can, as most things are.

Privateer is an excellent stock too and I really enjoyed mine.

Tanner, you've shot the bastion and the privateer? Man this is really valuable perspective! How do the two compare in shooting experience? When might you choose one over the other? The privateer appeals to me in a big way but I don't know if I should choose it for practicing at distance.

 

[Macintosh]

Look at how they make those biathalon stocks without vertical grips so they can be shot well off hand..

View attachment 1034207

edit: I think you may be exercising your sarcasm gene...if so carry on. I failed to catch that.

My original post: Actually a lot of biathlon rifles do have a vertical grip. Example, below is the stock designed and sold by a local guy who specializes in biathlon rifles and also happens to be one of the US biathlon team shooting coaches. They also do stuff like use moldable putty to custom-shape the grips, but many are "vertical" for sure. Also sized grips, you'll notice int he pics that it's the trigger reach that changes (more at https://lostnationrd.com/product/versatile-biathlon-stock/)

 

[Formidilosus]

Actually a lot of biathlon rifles do have a vertical grip. Example, below is the stock designed and sold by a local guy who specializes in biathlon rifles and also happens to be one of the US biathlon team shooting coaches. They also do stuff like use moldable putty to custom-shape the grips, but many are "vertical" for sure: (more at https://lostnationrd.com/product/versatile-biathlon-stock/)

View attachment 1034212

Haha. He was being sarcastic.

 

[Tanner]

Tanner, you've shot the bastion and the privateer? Man this is really valuable perspective! How do the two compare in shooting experience? When might you choose one over the other? The privateer appeals to me in a big way but I don't know if I should choose it for practicing at distance.

Yes, I had a 22-250 and a 6.5 Creed in the Privateer before trading the rifle it was on. It’s a very solid stock and has a very comfortable grip angle for a sporter. I shot it probably 70/30 prone and seated and had no complaints.

If most of your shots on game are prone and that’s the way you practice the most, I’d go that route. If you hunt thick cover or still hunt a lot, and take a lot of offhand, kneeling, or seated shots at game, the Privateer may be more appropriate.

 

[Formidilosus]

First Rokslide post here!

I'm building my first high end rifle and need some perspective. It's in 6.5 PRC off a Tikka action, and will hopefully weigh ~8lb. While it'll see pretty diverse uses, the focus is mule deer in open country as well as learning to push out to greater (ethical) distances. The goal is consistent shots around 500yd and practice beyond that, in time, if I feel capable of it.

Having only used sporter stocks, I pick up precision-focussed models with their vertical grips, palms swells, and width, and they feel unwieldy. I'm open to learning to love them but my question is this:

Do you use traditional sporter stocks at these distances? Can one learn to ring steel way the heck out there? Or should I take the loss of handiness and learn to use something more modern? I understand the features of a precision stock that make it desirable, but I want to be sure I'm not falling into the hype if folks are out there making similar shots with more old-school builds.

All stocks and guns that are made for shooting offhand competitions- whether accuracy, speed, or a combination of both- are all vertical gripped. So too most competition shotguns. Vertical is the most optimized grip for standing offhand shots- and every other position.

There are/is stocks that take the maximal shootability design of biathlon and LR rifles, yet are sporter sized and carry like a sporter stock. There is no reason to compromise on stocks anymore.

 

[flyfisher117]

I prefer vertical grips on almost everything. Even my O/U trap gun had a vertical grip.

Don’t have any issues carrying them or shooting them. There are certain designs I haven’t liked but as a whole I prefer vertical.