Posting unit #'s

[stanginthe11s]

poor FNG, he had no idea what he was starting, or did he

SDHNTR, there are fine lines with all of this. NR's get abused to some degree in every state, but I'm with you on having to pay more.
license #'s are loosely based on animal #'s there's a bit that goes into that which I don't really want to get into.
has the internet and TV hurt hunting? yes, to a degree but it has also done some good.
as a hunter who has been at this before the internet let me tell you the statement of separating the men from the boys is ridiculous. simply because new guys may be the boys to you, but you are a boy to us old timers. I mean no disrespect to you, just pointing out the cycle.
I appreciate your dedication, but we are on a slippery slope and its pointless to fight or take sides on any of these matters.
as far as the OP, we can all agree posting unit specifics are not the best idea. and asking unit specific questions is just plain lazy and stupid. oh, and I dislike that whole east vs west comment. must be the lack of oxygen you guys have.

 

[SDHNTR]

poor FNG, he had no idea what he was starting, or did he

SDHNTR, there are fine lines with all of this. NR's get abused to some degree in every state, but I'm with you on having to pay more.
license #'s are loosely based on animal #'s there's a bit that goes into that which I don't really want to get into.
has the internet and TV hurt hunting? yes, to a degree but it has also done some good.
as a hunter who has been at this before the internet let me tell you the statement of separating the men from the boys is ridiculous. simply because new guys may be the boys to you, but you are a boy to us old timers. I mean no disrespect to you, just pointing out the cycle.
I appreciate your dedication, but we are on a slippery slope and its pointless to fight or take sides on any of these matters.
as far as the OP, we can all agree posting unit specifics are not the best idea. and asking unit specific questions is just plain lazy and stupid. oh, and I dislike that whole east vs west comment. must be the lack of oxygen you guys have.

Fair enough. Agreed to agree on the common ground.

 

[stanginthe11s]

I’m sorry that YouTube and hats hurt you so much. Maybe your grandkids can find a nice home for you where you and the other cranky old folks can complain about the good old days before dang ol internet ruined the mountains.

hmmm, a YouTube channel with grumpy old men bashing hats sounds like it might be entertaining. I love it, I'm in lol.

 

[ndbuck09]

It's pretty stupid that people can't grasp the fact that unit specific discussion on a publicly viewable, searchable forum is not good for the unit. When there's 50,000 people in line to buy Idaho non resident elk and deer tags in December for the following fall, you know that any unit specific info is getting sucked up by folks like an anteater in an ant colony.

How dense are you people?

 

[BDRam16]

It's pretty stupid that people can't grasp the fact that unit specific discussion on a publicly viewable, searchable forum is not good for the unit. When there's 50,000 people in line to buy Idaho non resident elk and deer tags in December for the following fall, you know that any unit specific info is getting sucked up by folks like an anteater in an ant colony.

How dense are you people?

This thread devolved way past unit specific information lol

 

[LFC911]

Yesterday I listened to the 3 hour Big, Big Bucks Podcast...seems like a double standard that we can't mention a unit...I stopped counting after more than a dozen units mentioned. What is the difference it that vs posting/discussing them on here? I can and will abide by the rules, just doesn't seem very consistent with the message we're being told.

Big Big Bucks! with Jason Carter

Robby pays the favor back and hosts Jason Carter on the Rokcast. This is a follow up conversation from 2018 on the Epic Outdoors podcast “Learning From Giant Mule Deer…”

www.rokslide.com

 

[Jmort1754]

Correct, but I don’t care that they aren’t successful and aren’t killing the vast majority of elk. I don’t want all those crowds in the woods. I don’t want all those people fouling up draw odds. It’s time to separate the men from the boys. Let’s reward the dedicated, not just anyone and everyone.

Yes, their funds are needed and appreciated. But rather than open the floodgates and encourage every swinging unit to apply (and pay the Newbergs to market such, Barf!) what they could do instead that would help the truly dedicated is to require non refundable licenses to be purchased up front, with a check, in order to apply. A real, full fledged license. Not some small game thing. Game agencies would get their money, and the hunting experience wouldn’t be reduced for the truly dedicated. And don’t I don’t buy the crap about how that would turn things into a rich man’s game (more than it already is). It would just force guys to be more dedicated. To save a lil extra, maybe not blow their cash on their Mtn Ops and ho Hunt subscriptions and flat brims and lifted trucks. And it would force guys to really think about where they apply and spend their dollars, rather than carpet bombing the west because it’s (relatively) cheap and easy to do so. I think it would provide a better experience for all. Status quo doesn’t work anymore. Change needs to happen.

So what you are saying is you want NR's to pay a tag price up front and not get refunded if they are unsuccessful. That very idea would make it a rich man's sport. Nothing more nothing less.

I mean if we are spouting bullshit why not spout the shit that the majority of the east funds those big giant pieces of national forest, why not spout the bullshit that hunter numbers pale in comparison to hikers, 4 wheelers, and skiers, why not drop stupid shit like you can only hunt your own state unless you are friends with someone in said state you want to hunt.

I agree that social media has put a huge influx of hunters out there and noone can deny it. Unit numbers should not be posted but helping people with each states specific draw methods is ok with me.

Nothing is said about the oil execs from Texas, the rich folks from California and the like buying 30,000 acre chunks of land in any of the western dream states. Sure complaints happen about the politics they bring what about the other shit that comes with them.

 

[littlerhorner]

Yesterday I listened to the 3 hour Big, Big Bucks Podcast...seems like a double standard that we can't mention a unit...I stopped counting after more than a dozen units mentioned. What is the difference it that vs posting/discussing them on here? I can and will abide by the rules, just doesn't seem very consistent with the message we're being told.

Big Big Bucks! with Jason Carter

Robby pays the favor back and hosts Jason Carter on the Rokcast. This is a follow up conversation from 2018 on the Epic Outdoors podcast “Learning From Giant Mule Deer…”

www.rokslide.com

Because we are the consumer not the seller. Different rules.

 

[SDHNTR]

So what you are saying is you want NR's to pay a tag price up front and not get refunded if they are unsuccessful. That very idea would make it a rich man's sport. Nothing more nothing less.

Precisely. Well, almost. I was suggesting having to buy a full fledged hunting license (separate from a tag) prior to applying, but in general you have the concept right. Yes, it would cost more, I’m fine with that. I hunt other states far more than I hunt my own state. I’m including myself in this thought process. If it’s important to me, I’ll find a way to pay for it. I’ll buy cheaper beer. I’ll run my 17 yr old truck for another year. I’ll pass on the newest cheese ball gear some influencer told me I needed. I work harder at my job to earn more money. It might also force me to prioritize where I apply and be really dedicated to the process. I might even have to not apply in so many states and or for as many species. It will require more thought, effort and work. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT IS NEEDED!

Total BS arguement that a $300-400 license makes it a rich man’s sport. Sorry, not in this day and age. Add a couple more zeros and I’ll give you that argument, but we’re far from it. It’s about sacrifice and earning something, a concept we dearly need returned to the process of hunting out West.

I’m gonna make a blaze orange hat. MHHA! MAKE HUNTING HARD AGAIN. Look out Orange Man and your red hat! Mines even cooler.

And anyways, lots of complaining going on here, on both sides. Admittedly, some of it is mine, but at least I’m proffering an actionable solution. What’s yours? We aren’t putting the technology ketchup back in the bottle, and state game agencies will never accept making less money, so what else can be done?

 

[Jmort1754]

Precisely. Well, almost. I was suggesting having to buy a full fledged hunting license (separate from a tag) prior to applying, but in general you have the concept right. Yes, it would cost more, I’m fine with that. I hunt other states far more than I hunt my own state. I’m including myself in this thought process. If it’s important to me, I’ll find a way to pay for it. I’ll buy cheaper beer. I’ll run my 17 yr old truck for another year. I’ll pass on the newest cheese ball gear some influencer told me I needed. I work harder at my job to earn more money. It might also force me to prioritize where I apply and be really dedicated to the process. I might even have to not apply in so many states and or for as many species. It will require more thought, effort and work. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT IS NEEDED!

Total BS arguement that a $300-400 license makes it a rich man’s sport. Sorry, not in this day and age. Add a couple more zeros and I’ll give you that argument, but we’re far from it. It’s about sacrifice and earning something, a concept we dearly need returned to the process of hunting out West.

I’m gonna make a blaze orange hat. MHHA! MAKE HUNTING HARD AGAIN. Look out Orange Man and your red hat! Mines even cooler.

And anyways, lots of complaining going on here, on both sides. Admittedly, some of it is mine, but at least I’m proffering an actionable solution. What’s yours? We aren’t putting the technology ketchup back in the bottle, and state game agencies will never accept making less money, so what else can be done?

I agree that you are not going to reverse the tech aspect of this argument.

State game agencies and state government in general will not allow themselves the effects of being shorted the money that NR bring in.

However saying that one must by the license in order to apply is asinine. I would say front the money and if you are not drawn you get refunded. That would lower the threshold somewhat

Yes it would make it a rich mans sport, when for instance a NR bull tag in Co is 700 ish dollars and a NR deer tag is another 500 ish. Fronting 1200 dollars that if not drawn will not be refunded would be a hard pill to swallow. The answer of not buying the new gear, or not paying for a new truck this year may work for just that this year, what about next year or the year after?

I don't know the exact answer and I don't claim to know it either. I do know that pricing people out is not the answer either. Doubling the cost might make up the difference in 1/2 the tags being applied for.

 

[SDHNTR]

I agree that you are not going to reverse the tech aspect of this argument.

State game agencies and state government in general will not allow themselves the effects of being shorted the money that NR bring in.

However saying that one must by the license in order to apply is asinine. I would say front the money and if you are not drawn you get refunded. That would lower the threshold somewhat

Yes it would make it a rich mans sport, when for instance a NR bull tag in Co is 700 ish dollars and a NR deer tag is another 500 ish. Fronting 1200 dollars that if not drawn will not be refunded would be a hard pill to swallow. The answer of not buying the new gear, or not paying for a new truck this year may work for just that this year, what about next year or the year after?

I don't know the exact answer and I don't claim to know it either. I do know that pricing people out is not the answer either. Doubling the cost might make up the difference in 1/2 the tags being applied for.

No, a non refundable LICENSE. Not the tag fee. CO does it weird where the tag is the license. Separate the two, like most states do, but make the license purchase significant enough to matter.

 

[Jmort1754]

No, a non refundable LICENSE. Not the tag fee. CO does it weird where the tag is the license. Separate the two, like most states do, but make the license purchase significant enough to matter.

That is my exact point that there is no way that they are separating the two. Further I doubt that we will ever see them lower that cost. Therefore in Colorado the option will be the 700 or bust.

 

[SDHNTR]

That is my exact point that there is no way that they are separating the two. Further I doubt that we will ever see them lower that cost. Therefore in Colorado the option will be the 700 or bust.

There is no lowering of the cost. It’s the opposite. Want to hunt elk?, you buy a $3-400 license first for the privilege and then to apply for an elk tag you cough up $700 more. Draw the tag, it’s $1000. Fail to draw and you get your $700 back (minus maybe a small processing fee). The state keeps your $300.

Most other states separate the license and the tag purchase. This isn’t a stretch. Do you apply in AZ, ID, UT, NV, NM? They all require a separate hunting license first to apply, it’s just some don’t charge enough for it to matter.

 

[Jmort1754]

There is no lowering of the cost. It’s the opposite. Want to hunt elk?, you buy a $3-400 license first for the privilege and then to apply for an elk tag you cough up $700 more. Draw the tag, it’s $1000. Fail to draw and you get your $700 back (minus maybe a small processing fee). The state keeps your $300.

Most other states separate the license and the tag purchase. This isn’t a stretch. Do you apply in AZ, ID, UT, NV, NM? They all require a separate hunting license first to apply, it’s just some don’t charge enough for it to matter.

I apply in NM and did in AZ, however, I would be ok with a 300 dollar fee, the majority however would not and would stop applying.

I feel that those who can afford it will make it a rich mans game, just like hunting in the east is becoming.

 

[SDHNTR]

I apply in NM and did in AZ, however, I would be ok with a 300 dollar fee, the majority however would not and would stop applying.

I feel that those who can afford it will make it a rich mans game, just like hunting in the east is becoming.

Majority stop? I doubt it. Make some of the less serious stop? Yes, which is the exact point, and that extra $100-250 gained (additional to the $50-200 type licenses required now) from those who would pay for the license increase would make up for the lost revenue to the state from those who opt out.

Less applicants, no loss of money to the state. That’s the idea. Both sides win, committed hunters and the State. Yes it screws the less dedicated, but the time for those types to have equal access has come and gone.

Something needs to be done. The status quo isn’t working. It’s only driving the sport more to the private side of things where only the real big money wins. So I propose a smaller additional financial sacrifice for us all, for the greater good.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Act like adults.

Randy

 

[stanginthe11s]

both you guys have valid points, and yes, many states or most have separate license requirements but an observation over many years hunting, the guy who can afford more is almost always the least dedicated. that's the guy running his UTV up the trail he shouldn't be on after jumping out of his brand new F350 and paying people to put up his tent and feed him grapes. as a common man, I can tell you I had to work for the hunt and luckily, I am able now to venture to other places. if you throw another 3-400$ at me, I'm out. plus, I'm not getting some back? that'll hurt. and believe me I'm more dedicated than most. hell, I don't even use my phone or gps (don't own a gps) I use topo's.
now maybe we can even that out a bit, say 200 for a license and 500 for a tag? then you're not paying extra but you can still lose money.
point is, money will not weed out the bad hunters, it will only bring people with more money than brains. I already ran into those guys at a bar last year in CO, don't get me started lol

 

[stanginthe11s]

oh, also SDHNTR, if they did implement that plan we would really see an increase in posts for unit #'s and honey holes since alot of money will be at stake. probably more stolen BOAL threads too, just saying lol.

 

[SDHNTR]

oh, also SDHNTR, if they did implement that plan we would really see an increase in posts for unit #'s and honey holes since alot of money will be at stake. probably more stolen BOAL threads too, just saying lol.

Haha. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[SDHNTR]

both you guys have valid points, and yes, many states or most have separate license requirements but an observation over many years hunting, the guy who can afford more is almost always the least dedicated. that's the guy running his UTV up the trail he shouldn't be on after jumping out of his brand new F350 and paying people to put up his tent and feed him grapes. as a common man, I can tell you I had to work for the hunt and luckily, I am able now to venture to other places. if you throw another 3-400$ at me, I'm out. plus, I'm not getting some back? that'll hurt. and believe me I'm more dedicated than most. hell, I don't even use my phone or gps (don't own a gps) I use topo's.
now maybe we can even that out a bit, say 200 for a license and 500 for a tag? then you're not paying extra but you can still lose money.
point is, money will not weed out the bad hunters, it will only bring people with more money than brains. I already ran into those guys at a bar last year in CO, don't get me started lol

You make some valid points. The point is not to weed out the hack hunters only (although that would be nice), the goal is just to reduce the number of humans in the woods.

Something has to give, someone’s gonna have to lose, and I don’t know how else to accomplish the goal.