Poll - One all around single cartridge under conditions

[USAF Ret]

The contradiction in the above two statements speaks for itself, but thank you for finally acknowledging my point. There is no 100 gr option in that bullet class for 7mm, which is exactly why a 6.5mm caliber is an advantage when recoil is a primary consideration. For ANY type of bullet in 7mm, there's a lighter equivalent option in 6.5mm (or .257/.243/.224) that will do the same job.

It's a physics-based fact that lighter bullets at similar velocity = less recoil. You acknowledge this relationship when comparing .243 to .264 bullets, as well as the equal weights = worse ballistics in larger calibers relationship when comparing .284 to .308 bullets. An individual that's not attached to the emotional aspects of 6.5 Creedmoor vs 7mm-08 comparison should realize the same relationships hold true there as well. Arguing over 2grs of powder mass difference (not all of which is even moving at muzzle velocity) is a Red Herring in a world where a 20gr bullet mass difference is the average between the two calibers.

For every 7mm bullet you’d shoot, there’s a lighter bullet in 6.5 that will do the same thing in flight and on impact with approximately 20% less recoil. 20% is noticeable for the average guy, and even more so for someone packing a physical injury.

"For every 7mm bullet you’d shoot, there’s a lighter bullet in 6.5 that will do the same thing in flight and on impact with approximately 20% less recoil. 20% is noticeable for the average guy, and even more so for someone packing a physical injury."

So, in that calculation would you put the 7mm-08 139 LRX up against the 6.5 CM 127 LRX? Basically you are getting the same in flight and on impact?

 

[USAF Ret]

I wondered the same thing so didn't vote. 30-06 is so clearly superior to 308 makes you wonder.

Because last time I shot my 30-06, I got through about 4 rounds and knew to stop. It hurt. The pain was worse the next day in my neck.

 

[cal30_sniper]

"For every 7mm bullet you’d shoot, there’s a lighter bullet in 6.5 that will do the same thing in flight and on impact with approximately 20% less recoil. 20% is noticeable for the average guy, and even more so for someone packing a physical injury."

So, in that calculation would you put the 7mm-08 139 LRX up against the 6.5 CM 127 LRX? Basically you are getting the same in flight and on impact?

Yes, I would.

The values you'll see that make this easy to measure are SD and BC. BC will govern the exterior ballistics in flight, and it's pretty straightforward as a physical principle.

Typically if the bullet is from the same manufacture and line, with similar sectional density (which is a calculation of frontal area vs length), it's going to have similar terminal performance on game at the same impact velocity. This is not as clear cut as flight performance (aka "exterior ballistics"), as things like different jacket thicknesses etc can come into play, but holds true as a general rule of thumb. There are instances where certain bullet families have high and low performers based on reported results, a lot of which are tabulated quite well in the depth of these forums.

It's important to remember here is that energy doesn't kill animals, terminal performance of the bullet does. Terminal performance is dictated by bullet construction and impact velocity, NOT the bore diameter or grain weight of the bullet.

 

[BuckSmasher]

Because last time I shot my 30-06, I got through about 4 rounds and knew to stop. It hurt. The pain was worse the next day in my neck.

In that case I wouldn’t hunt elk and would get a 556 or a 6.5 Grendel.

 

[mt terry d]

Judging by this thread:

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.​

I don't see how any one of your choices wouldn't do the job just fine; but not a one
will make up for poor shot placement or poor bullet design.

 

[KenLee]

You have a 6.5 Grendel and a 25-06 per your other comments in the thread. Those cover 100% of possible deer and elk hunting needs, so you could just sell all of the ones you listed.

Of the ones you listed, 6.5CM is as close to an objectively best choice as you can get for your listed restrictions. Factory ammo is relatively cheap, available, and GOOD. 6.5 also has far more selection/availability in lighter weight bullets compared to either 7mm or .308, which is what you need to be looking at given your recoil constraints. Capable .284 or .308 bullets in the 120gr or less range are almost non-existent in those chamberings, while the 6.5CM is loaded with options in that bullet weight class.

You will notice the difference in recoil between a 120gr 6.5CM and a 140gr 7mm-08 or 150gr .308.

120 gr NBT 7mm-08 is a mean little pill

 

[cal30_sniper]

120 gr NBT 7mm-08 is a mean little pill

I don’t doubt it. So is the 6.5 variant, my Grendel chews through them.

 

[KenLee]

I don’t doubt it. So is the 6.5 variant, my Grendel chews through them.

The 7mm 120gr has a thicker jacket for a great penetration/expansion combination.

 

[cal30_sniper]

The 7mm 120gr has a thicker jacket for a great penetration/expansion combination.

Yes, I believe they were designed more with 7 Rem Mag velocities in mind, as that’s been “the” .284 cartridge in this country for a very long time. The .277 130grs I’ve sectioned also had the thick jacket, likely as a design consideration for 270 Win.

The .264 120gr has a thinner jacket (as does the .257 115gr). Both of these were designed more likely for cartridges in the .257 Roberts and 6.5x55 class, which were also representative of their bore diameter when the ballistic tip design was laid down. This is also the velocity category the 6.5 Creedmoor falls into.

.277 130gr:


.264 120gr:

 

[USAF Ret]

Had a buddy that threw a thought at me. He is actually the one that built my 280 AI on the HOWA platform. Suggested configuring my Rem 223 with a similar stock (maybe trigger) and spend time practicing with that, while pulling the 280 out now and again and just shooting a couple of shots like I am checking zero. That would rule out load development, but it shoots Sub-MOA with Nosler 140 E-Tips. Thoughts?

I still want to get down to just one or two rifles for hunting. Way too much stuff in my safe and closets.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Had a buddy that threw a thought at me. He is actually the one that built my 280 AI on the HOWA platform. Suggested configuring my Rem 223 with a similar stock (maybe trigger) and spend time practicing with that, while pulling the 280 out now and again and just shooting a couple of shots like I am checking zero. That would rule out load development, but it shoots Sub-MOA with Nosler 140 E-Tips. Thoughts?

I still want to get down to just one or two rifles for hunting. Way too much stuff in my safe and closets.

This is the way.

As recommended by many on RokSlide, I have a Tikka T3 in .223 and a Tikka T3X in 6.5 CM. They will have the same stock once the .223 gets its wooden Rokstok. Same scope on each. They are roughly the same weight and length. I shoot 100 rounds of .223 every week from field positions and about 20 rounds a week of 6.5 CM. I also have a CZ 457 for .22 LR practice (200/week). I thought about switching to a T1X, but haven’t bothered yet.

.223 awaiting Rokstok

6.5 CM in RokStok.

It doesn’t require a Tikka, but having two rifles on the same platform makes too much sense. And once you have the training or practice rifle, your other rifle could be almost anything from .243 to .300 WM. What dictates that is how far away you want your bullet to hit the deer going 1800 FPS.

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

Had a buddy that threw a thought at me. He is actually the one that built my 280 AI on the HOWA platform. Suggested configuring my Rem 223 with a similar stock (maybe trigger) and spend time practicing with that, while pulling the 280 out now and again and just shooting a couple of shots like I am checking zero. That would rule out load development, but it shoots Sub-MOA with Nosler 140 E-Tips. Thoughts?

I still want to get down to just one or two rifles for hunting. Way too much stuff in my safe and closets.

In that vein, you could also develop some low recoil 280 without too much trouble. 120 BT's or 139/140 somesuch's would probably do reasonably well (2600 FPS ish) over Blue Dot at around 30 grains or so (would take a little research to figure out what exactly). Something like that would get you recoil even lower than a 6.5 CM, by a fair margin.

 

[USAF Ret]

In that vein, you could also develop some low recoil 280 without too much trouble. 120 BT's or 139/140 somesuch's would probably do reasonably well (2600 FPS ish) over Blue Dot at around 30 grains or so (would take a little research to figure out what exactly). Something like that would get you recoil even lower than a 6.5 CM, by a fair margin.

Great idea someone else mentioned. I will keep watch on some 120 grain .284 factory seconds.

 

[cal30_sniper]

In that vein, you could also develop some low recoil 280 without too much trouble. 120 BT's or 139/140 somesuch's would probably do reasonably well (2600 FPS ish) over Blue Dot at around 30 grains or so (would take a little research to figure out what exactly). Something like that would get you recoil even lower than a 6.5 CM, by a fair margin.

I’d be taking a harder look at that 25-06 you have assuming it’s in a decent rifle platform. A 25-06 with a 110gr Accubond would be a hard recipe to beat given your parameters.