Point weight vs insert weight… which is more beneficial?

[Mtwood24]

I am very new to the trad game and looking to set up some arrows for ultimately elk hunting. It’s looking like I’m going to want roughly 175-200 grains up front. My question is, what is more practical and why? Or does it even make a difference?

175gr point and 25gr insert
150gr point and 50gr insert
125gr point and 75gr insert
100gr point and 100gr insert

 

[180ls1]

Error on the side of a heavier broad-head because they are more prone to fail. That said, anything can be taken too far so don't go extreme.

 

[tkhuntsman]

Really it all comes down to tuning. Since you can't tune your bow you've got to do the arrow. Find a combo that will give you the best results for your bow and arrow set up and use that. There really isn't an easy button in trad. I bare shaft tune my arrows with field points and then even do it with broad heads. Then once I have a combo that works for both I fletch a couple up with a few different styles and length of feathers. Once I have a winning combo that's what I practice and hunt with. I will say each bow and shooter is a bit different you just have to work at it until you get results.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Doesn't really matter. If you're uncertain about where you want to land on total front end weight, I would recommend choosing a lighter head (100-125 gr) and medium weight insert (25-50 gr) then using internal weight screws behind the insert to make up the difference. This would allow you to easily experiment with different front end weights without needing to change heads or inserts. Also, I would recommend securing your inserts with heat reversible glue ("hot melt") so you can easily remove them if you find that you need to trim your arrow.

 

[wildwilderness]

100 gr points and broadheads are easier to find and more options.

 

[nevadabugle]

150 /50

 

[bz_711]

I do 100 head / 50 inserts on my compound arrows primarily because I have a particular 100gr head I like and have been successful with.

Good Luck!

 

[nevadabugle]

100 gr points and broadheads are easier to find and more options.

I would argue that for cut on contact 2 or 4 blade heads there are much better quality and likely more options in the 125-150 grain range.

 

[Mtwood24]

I will most likely end up shooting iron will’s so all the heavy weights are available. I’m just trying to understand if there is a benefit of putting the weight in the insert, or not

 

[nevadabugle]

I will most likely end up shooting iron will’s so all the heavy weights are available. I’m just trying to understand if there is a benefit of putting the weight in the insert, or not

At the end of the day you won't be able to shoot the difference with a stick bow. Find the broadhead you want and then add the additional weight needed with the insert.

 

[Hnthrdr]

I’m not sure there is a magical solution when it comes to elk hunting and weight up front, I’m right at 500 grn arrow, 125/ 25 fact weight, 15% foc hit a bull a couple years back in the shoulder with a super sharp IW double bevel at 30 yards and lost that bull… shot placement over everything!

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I will most likely end up shooting iron will’s so all the heavy weights are available. I’m just trying to understand if there is a benefit of putting the weight in the insert, or not

Within each Iron Will model "family", most versions use the exact same blade regardless of weight...the heavier versions have a heavier ferrule but the same blade. So if you've settled on IW, there's no sense in laboring over head weight vs. insert weight...cutting diameter and blade thickness will remain the same. Some manufacturers do increase the cutting diameter and/or blade thickness of their heavier models, but IW generally does not.

As I stated previously, I believe shifting weight between the head and insert doesn't really matter, but one could argue that it might make more sense to use a longer/stronger/heavier insert (and commensurately lighter head) to reinforce the front end of the arrow where bending/breaking is most likely to occur. I typically prefer to have my head + insert combo undershoot my desired total front weight then make up the difference with removable weight screws.

 

[Btaylor]

Or you could just shoot wood arras and eliminate all the confusion.

 

[lelliott8]

Like others have said, broadhead choice is the determining factor. If you already own some just tune the insert weight to work with those.

I like using a slightly lighter head and a long heavy insert because I feel the length makes them tougher (in my head mostly)

I have noticed the heaver field tips bend more easily than shorter lighter ones.
I use the ethics HIT insert. I would go 150gr tip with 50gr insert. Lots of broadhead choices if you ever get bored.

 

[Beendare]

It might be worth considering this;

Once the insert is in...it's in. Carbon shafts are stronger when the insert is epoxied in...thus hard to change. It's easy to change BH's. You might not always be shooting the exact same spine arrow that tunes now.

So for example....if you plop a 100g insert in there with a 100g BH and go up in Bow weight, you might not be able to find a light enough BH to tune. Many other cases where this has happened to me both up and down in spine to fine tune.

A lighter insert gives you more flexibility tuning wise without having to get all new arrows.

 

[Cheechako]

From what I have seen heavier inserts/ outserts tend to be made of heavier denser materials that are more durable than aluminum. Once you get into longer brass inserts like goldtip 100s or easton hiit 75 they can bend inside the arrow with hard impacts and can also stiffen the dynamic spine of your arrow. With the weight up front you are targeting a 50 grain brass or steel insert with a 150 head might be a good compromise. 150 grain heads also tend to have a better length: width ratio than 100s if you subscribe to that theory.

 

[wildwilderness]

I would argue that for cut on contact 2 or 4 blade heads there are much better quality and likely more options in the 125-150 grain range.

I can't recall the last time I walked into a Cabelas/Bass Pro or Sportsmans and found a 150gr broadhead on the shelf. Pretty much everything was 100 gr with a couple options in 125. Also not many "traditional" style broad heads either for that matter.

Sure if you order online and always have a stock of broadheads it doesn't really matter which specialty head you use.

The OP asked what was most "practical" and I have found 100 gr heads way more common (at least with compounds and in physical stores) and have on occasion borrowed broadheads on a hunts from buddies when running low or something else happens. Helps to have a common weight

 

[Mtwood24]

I think I’m going to lean towards the 50 gr. Insert. What broadhead are guys using on elk, other than the iron will?

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I think I’m going to lean towards the 50 gr. Insert. What broadhead are guys using on elk, other than the iron will?

Cutthroat 2-blade

 

[Marbles]

Going from aluminum to steel inserts is probably great. After that, once the head is built sufficiently strong, it really comes down to what you want. For non-vented single bevel heads the lightest I can go is 150, I can get 150 grain small game heads and field points, so any additional weight would come from the insert. Using hot melt glue, if I want to play with up front weight, I'll just change inserts.

That is my take. I would say don't over think it. I got Easton brass inserts because they are much cheaper than the other inserts and came in at my desired weight.