Point Creep - is there any light at the end of the tunnel?

[mahnemgreg]

Point creep is going to continue to get worse. Colorado is starting to get wolves, which have reduced elk herd numbers wherever they've been reintroduced by ~30% and the price resistance on NR applications has been zilch.

 

[rodney482]

By buddies group of 4 drew last year and this year on Random

 

[Wetwork]

They need to stop calling them "points" and just come out and say "years." As in, "Yup, I'm at year seven, just need six more years til I draw."-WW

 

[Okhotnik]

Point creep is going to continue to get worse. Colorado is starting to get wolves, which have reduced elk herd numbers wherever they've been reintroduced by ~30% and the price resistance on NR applications has been zilch.

Funny very little push back from the NR's when they introduced wolves into the largest elk herd in the US with no firm management plan like they did when they introduced wolves to WA, OR, MI,MN, WI

 

[NoWiser]

Funny very little push back from the NR's when they introduced wolves into the largest elk herd in the US with no firm management plan like they did when they introduced wolves to WA, OR, MI,MN, WI

They didn't introduce wolves to MN, WI, or MI.

 

[IsThisHeaven]

I’m out. Too many people. Too expensive. Cutting NR tags. Resident disdain for NR. Mostly declining populations.

It’s not worth it to me. Not close to being worth it actually. But you will have to make that decision for yourself.

 

[wind gypsy]

OP, I got into the game a couple years before you, 35 YO. Have 7 points in a number of states. Have had good hunting experiences and stretch myself thin on time off for hunts most every year.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel but if you play with Elk, deer, and antelope points as well, it's very easy to have way more hunts available than time to complete them. "Glory tags" will continue to be very difficult to come by.

 

[WCB]

Funny very little push back from the NR's when they introduced wolves into the largest elk herd in the US with no firm management plan like they did when they introduced wolves to WA, OR, MI,MN, WI

How would you say there is very little push back from NRs? Introduced wolves to MN,Wi,MI? You know they never left right?

 

[Gerard Marcaurele]

I’m naive to the exact figures, but I can see this having a normal peak and valley phases as the economy.
As it becomes more and more crowded at the trailhead, there will be a breaking point where people will simply no longer go due to overcrowding. States will need to begin to manage for quality if they want to be competitive with all of the other hunting opportunities.

Western hunting is affordable and accessible right now. One of those two things WILL change. Time will tell how much worse it has to get before that happens. As things change, hunting will continue to become more difficult to pursue. It will either be luck or money that bring you to the dance.

 

[wind gypsy]

I get that western hunting is the hot thing right now, but I also can't help but look at hunting demographics and see that Boomers make up a giant portion of it. It's going to suck for glory tags and guided hunts for roughly the next 10 years, as they're retiring for good and knocking off their bucket list, but being more or less in the same boat as OP, I feel good about my mid and long term plans of what I'm trying to do.

Boomers might be the majority buying guided hunts now but what makes you think the current 20 and 30 somethings that are financially solid in a decade will do when they have more money than time? I used to have 3 weeks to burn in the west every fall. Now that i'm married with a kid on the way I don't think its far fetched to think that will be reduced to 1 or 2 weeks. If it s 1 week, there's a good chance i'm going on a good guided hunt (booked one next year) and I'm a millennial.

 

[LostArra]

Funny very little push back from the NR's when they introduced wolves into the largest elk herd in the US with no firm management plan like they did when they introduced wolves to WA, OR, MI,MN, WI

Huh? What would be effective nr push back on an issue approved by the voters of Colorado?
Quit hunting Colorado? I did that years ago but 100 people took my place.

 

[Okhotnik]

How would you say there is very little push back from NRs? Introduced wolves to MN,Wi,MI? You know they never left right?

Of course I do having seen my first wolf in WI bowhunting in 1978 in Burnett county. And I bow hunted WI 26 years until the wolves got out of control there. I saw wolves in N MN when I canoed the bwca in the early 80's

I stopped bow hunting in WA after 16 years because of the wolves and dwindling opportunities. I see this is probably the last OTC NR archery elk tags in OR, where I've hunted, due to wolves

I remember little concern on here when the wolf introduction passed in Colorado.

 

[Fatcamp]

If you are a hunter you will hunt. If you are chasing an experience you witness on YouTube it's a lot more nuanced.

I will always hunt.

 

[Dirtbag]

There were quality hunts in Colorado that went down in needed preference points for deer and elk.

Out of curiosity do you believe there may be other factors at play regarding these units? In one unit I'm aware of that used to take 3-4 points for archery some were drawn out at 1. This hunt used to be a very high quality hunt but From personal experience in the unit the decrease in points needed is due to both an increase in tag numbers and a considerably lower quality hunt than in years past.

 

[mproberts]

OP, I got into the game a couple years before you, 35 YO. Have 7 points in a number of states. Have had good hunting experiences and stretch myself thin on time off for hunts most every year.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel but if you play with Elk, deer, and antelope points as well, it's very easy to have way more hunts available than time to complete them. "Glory tags" will continue to be very difficult to come by.

Very much in the same boat as you. Same age and started applying 10 years ago in 8 of the 11 western states. I spend a little over 2k each year on applications and points.... luckily that is something I can afford. I don't stress much about elk, deer or antelope, because I know I can draw much of those any given year when I have the time to fit in another hunt. I just take a strategy of looking at what and where I want to hunt that year and stress less about those impossible to draw units. I just want to hunt as much as possible and would never hold out for those impossible to draw units, I honestly think the guys applying for those units like the idea of hunting more than actually hunting... I've got a few buddies like that.

The only thing I do worry about is drawing those OIL species. I'd like to think that if I live long enough I would be able to draw one of those tags, but who knows if that's even realistic. I used to think that starting to apply in my early 20s would give me a leg up, but then I realized guys were stacking points for their kids a decade plus before they could even draw those tags. I guess only time will tell, but like the lottery you gotta be in it to win it.

 

[wapitibob]

They didn't introduce wolves to MN, WI, or MI.

Nor OR but facts can be elusive for some.

 

[greaseywater]

I remember little concern on here when the wolf introduction passed in Colorado.

Thread 'I'm torn on Colorado prop 114.' https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/im-torn-on-colorado-prop-114.191396/

Thread 'Signatures Delivered to Colorado for Wolf Ballot Initiative' https://www.rokslide.com/forums/thr...o-colorado-for-wolf-ballot-initiative.152149/

Thread 'Wildife management by Ballot box' https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/wildife-management-by-ballot-box.160852/

Thread 'Anyone want to talk some sense into this guy?' https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/anyone-want-to-talk-some-sense-into-this-guy.190512/

Thread 'BHA Colorado Wolf Statement' https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/bha-colorado-wolf-statement.162532/

Thread 'Colorado Proposition 114-Reintroduction of Gray Wolves' https://www.rokslide.com/forums/thr...ion-114-reintroduction-of-gray-wolves.196058/


There are more. Search 'Colorado wolf ballot' if you want to refresh your memory.

 

[wildwilderness]

Will only get harder to draw.

That said there are more OTC, general opportunities to hunt across the west than anyone can do in a lifetime, let alone a season. There is no excuse not to hunt as much as you want.

 

[greaseywater]

On point creep, I don't think there is answer that will satisfy everyone. There can be completely equal access (random draw), preference to those first in line (PP), a supply-demand system ($$$$), or some combination.

Ultimately, for western big game, there is too little supply and way too much demand. Many people will be denied access to the resource by chance, because they are young, or because they aren't rich enough, depending on a state's particular system. Those people (most of us) will try to find ways to "fix the problem". The problem for us is that we didn't get a tag we wanted. The fix is anything that gives us, personally, a better chance.


And that fix will hurt someone else's chances. So they will complain. And on and on.

The access to the resource is what it is now. It will change in the future. I will make a goal (hunt every year) determine the requirements and limitations of that goal, and do what it takes to give me the best chance to achieve it, given the current rules. Understand that the rules will change and reevaluate as necessary.

 

[CorbLand]

Ultimately, for western big game, there is too little supply and way too much demand. Many people will be denied access to the resource by chance, because they are young, or because they aren't rich enough, depending on a state's particular system. Those people (most of us) will try to find ways to "fix the problem". The problem for us is that we didn't get a tag we wanted. The fix is anything that gives us, personally, a better chance.

While I see the truth in this, I would rather change things to give my nieces, nephews and eventually my own kids the chance to hunt over my own. I hate point systems and will go to my grave fighting against them. I would rather have a chance every year than a guaranteed chance at some date in the future. While this does benefit me, my main goal is the future.