Plumber question - Basement wall water line penetration

[shader112]

Asking for some advice from a plumber or other knowledge guy. I've water coming in through my water line wall penetratraion in my basement. I suspect my water line has sprung a leak either in the wall or nearby outside. Steady 3 drips a second the last 2 days.

I've got Julie coming out to mark underground and I'm panning on digging it up and making the necessary repairs. I suspect I will be replacing the pipe through the wall.

What is the best way to seal up that penetratraion after I replace the pipe? I assume it needs to be packed full of something, but what is best? Or should I just call a plumber to get it sealed up?

It's a 5' hole I'm going to dig after removing some sidewalk concrete so I want to make sure I do it right

Thanks for the help

 

[WV Mountaineer]

If it were my house, I’d sleeve it in pvc. Put some wire in it and tuck point non shrink grout around sleeve. Then spray widow and door foam to insulate the inside of the sleeve from outside elements.

Before you dig it up, make sure your gutters and underground drainage for runoff isn’t stopped up.

 

[Amos Keeto]

Remove concrete sidewalk and hand dig a 5 foot hole?
1) Mi amigo, I'd make damned sure the water isn't coming from somewhere else!
2) a professional plumber may be your best bet.

I admire you in that you're willing to undertake such a repair on your own, but there is a whole lot to consider and a whole lot of things that can go wrong*!

If nothing else, get a reputable plumber to at least take a look at it. I suppose estimates are still free!
They have repair capabilities these days that were once unheard of.

* - your wife having to go to the local 7-11 to use the restroom because you can't get the leak stopped and the water is off to the house!
(been there, done that! NOT fun!)

 

[shader112]

If it were my house, I’d sleeve it in pvc. Put some wire in it and tuck point non shrink grout around sleeve. Then spray widow and door foam to insulate the inside of the sleeve from outside elements.

Before you dig it up, make sure your gutters and underground drainage for runoff isn’t stopped up.

Thanks for the suggestion.

We are pretty dang dry right now and no gutter or grade issues. I've let it drip for two days to see if anything changes. Has been steady. The water is really clear which leads me to think it's leaking in the wall or close to it

 

[Gseith]

I would just start digging outside until you find the pipe. You will know before you get to the pipe if you are close to the leak. I’ve repaired many leaks outside.
If it was me and had to remove the pipe from the wall to replace , I would try not to disturb to much block while replacing the pipe and patch with hydraulic cement. Maybe add some block sealer on the outside.

 

[AlpineBeard]

I’m a plumber…
Yes you will probably have to replace the section going through the concrete. You will need to wrap the pipe in what we call 10 mil tape where it will be in contact. We use a product called “water plug” or “thorite” which is a synthetic non-shrinking concrete like compound. If you stub through with pex you want to back tape first so no sticky part of the tape is touching the pex (they claim it may eat through the pipe).

If the water table or ground water level ever rises above the level of your penetration the foundation should be waterproofed.

 

[shader112]

I’m a plumber…
Yes you will probably have to replace the section going through the concrete. You will need to wrap the pipe in what we call 10 mil tape where it will be in contact. We use a product called “water plug” or “thorite” which is a synthetic non-shrinking concrete like compound. If you stub through with pex you want to back tape first so no sticky part of the tape is touching the pex (they claim it may eat through the pipe).

If the water table or ground water level ever rises above the level of your penetration the foundation should be waterproofed.

Thanks for the info. I should be able to get tape and thorite. All though I'm starring to think once I get the leak located and fixed I may call a plumber in to do the penetration. I'd hate to pour a new sidewalk next week and realize my waterproofing skill sucks. I'm pretty capable but don't want to get too far out of my lane

 

[NateO 77]

If the hole in the concrete is round and oversized you could use a link-seal to seal the pipe penetration after the new pipe is installed

 

[spike camp]

You sure water isn’t running back towards the wall from that union?

 

[shader112]

You sure water isn’t running back towards the wall from that union?

That was my first thought too. There was a bunch of thinset spread around the pipe that butted up to the union. I chipped that all away to verify it is coming through the wall

 

[RS_Non-Res]

Is that an iron service line to a PVC union to copper in-house lines? Is that standard? (not a plumber).
Also, if the shutoff valve is closed overnight, does the meter change (indicating a leak instead of some other source)?

I've had water pop up at a sidewalk-asphalt junction and the leak was 8 feet away in an irrigation lateral on the other side of the sidewalk. I hate digging.

 

[shader112]

Is that an iron service line to a PVC union to copper in-house lines? Is that standard? (not a plumber).
Also, if the shutoff valve is closed overnight, does the meter change (indicating a leak instead of some other source)?

I've had water pop up at a sidewalk-asphalt junction and the leak was 8 feet away in an irrigation lateral on the other side of the sidewalk. I hate digging.

That's exactly what it is. I've been in 3 basements on my street and they are all the same with the iron to copper with a pvc union.

That is a good suggestion on isolating and checking the meter.

 

[bowinhand]

Colorado Master Plumber, I would contact your water company or look at your water meter and make sure there is no flow while no water is running. If flow is indicated while no water is running in home or irrigation system then you may have a leak on the water main coming into the home.

 

[HighUintas]

@shader112 you might want to get a quote from a reputable plumber and see what it would be for them to do the plumbing and wall patching work if you dig the hole. You might save some money.

I had my water main replaced a couple years ago and unfortunately wasn't able to dig myself, but would have saved $1000-1500. Can't remember exactly. However, that was a trench and yours might just require a hole.

 

[Elmer J. Fudd]

If it is leaking you can usually hear it whistling with you ear if you listen against the pipe. I work for a water utility and when we see this we go to the home owners house and shut off the curbstop. If the whistling stops we know it is the customer’s service line that is leaking. If it keeps making noise we know it is on our side of the curbstop. That matters because in my state everything past the curbstop is the homeowners responsibility. Also if you have to dig I would recommend replacing the entire line you own. I’ve seen people use repair bands and other spot fixes on a service line and so far everyone has eventually replaced the whole line anyways.

 

[cusecat04]

I would second replacing the entire line.... and "re-imagine" that termination in the house.

 

[shader112]

@shader112 you might want to get a quote from a reputable plumber and see what it would be for them to do the plumbing and wall patching work if you dig the hole. You might save some money.

I had my water main replaced a couple years ago and unfortunately wasn't able to dig myself, but would have saved $1000-1500. Can't remember exactly. However, that was a trench and yours might just require a hole.

The utility guys from the city showed up this morning to mark their main and I chatted with them. They said the plumber in town works with an excavation guy and they essentially cut into the water line by the meter at the curb and run a cable through the pipe into the home. They tie the cable to an excavator and pull a new pipe back. So the only digging is at the meter, and you get a complete new underground pipe.

That all sounded interesting so I called the plumber, he is 2 weeks out on availability and would charge $4,000 to $5,000.

So i'm weighing that $$ vs demoing out a sidewalk, digging a hole and fixing the pipe, sealing the penetration, pouring a new sidewalk and some landscaping work.

It's summer and there is nothing to hunt, too hot to fish, and I'm cheap...we will see. Going to see if I can get another price for a similar no-dig replacement and go from there.

Thanks for everyone's advice

 

[shader112]

If it is leaking you can usually hear it whistling with you ear if you listen against the pipe. I work for a water utility and when we see this we go to the home owners house and shut off the curbstop. If the whistling stops we know it is the customer’s service line that is leaking. If it keeps making noise we know it is on our side of the curbstop. That matters because in my state everything past the curbstop is the homeowners responsibility. Also if you have to dig I would recommend replacing the entire line you own. I’ve seen people use repair bands and other spot fixes on a service line and so far everyone has eventually replaced the whole line anyways.

I put my ear on the pipe and didn't hear anything. Not sure what that indicates, but I still think the leak is very close to the wall, if not in the penetration. Maybe it's too small of leak to whistle

 

[Gseith]

I’m cheap and like to punish myself. I would grab a shovel and start digging. Rent a concrete saw and cut a small section and patch when you’re done. It’s not that hard.
I couldn’t pony up 5,000 to fix something like that. If it’s leaking at the wall the leak is probably close, you shouldn’t have to dig up the yard. A small leak in the yard would leave a muddy spot eventually. It’s probably under the sidewalk or in the wall.

 

[Elmer J. Fudd]

Without seeing the site I’d hate to guess at cost but in my town typically you can get your water and sewer lateral replaced for under 2000. That is digging a trench at least 7’ deep and typically 50-75’. Obviously location plays a role in pricing but damn that sounds expensive.