Pistol Red Dot Durability

[nighthawkf-117]

Hi,

I'm researching red dots for my pistol. I'll be the first to admit I'm not a great shooter with a pistol, and looking to give myself every advantage when it comes to defense with mine specifically while backpack hunting. Having shot red dot pistols on a range I find it much easier to aquire a target and engage than with just irons. Currently considering either a Holosun EPS or Aimpoint Acro. Is there any general consensus here about durability of these optics? I'm open to other options as well but I'm set on a closed emitter.

Thanks!

 

[wnelson14]

This guy I always thought did good red dot durability tests. Check them out. I don’t think you can go wrong with either option.

 

[RepeatPete]

Here’s the multi-year study done by the same guy as the video cited above to prove that red dots are durable enough for duty use:

http://www.kentuckytacticalofficersassociation.org/uploads/4/0/6/1/40615731/sage_dynamics_pistol_red_dot_white_paper.pdf

Worth a read, or at least a skim-through. Short answer, yes. Buy a known option: Holosun, Aimpoint, Trijicon, etc. and run it.

 

[Avonac]

This may make some folks mad but there is a huge difference in reliability between Holosun and Aimpoint. I have a few Holosun’s on demo guns and all but one are ok. I have a 509 that ran out of elevation trying to zero at 25 yds. This is not uncommon. While it is possible to have an Aimpoint issue, they are way less likely. When you see organizations that have purchased Holosuns in large quantities, you will see qc issues that you just don’t see with Aimpoint and Trijicon.
If it’s a pistol that is strictly a range gun, get whatever you want, it your life and safety depend on it, I would spend the extra money.

 

[marc357]

This guy I always thought did good red dot durability tests. Check them out. I don’t think you can go wrong with either option.

Yep, that dude (and his durability testing) is the reason I never looked farther than the RMR.

 

[nighthawkf-117]

I agree that the RMR is probably the standard for durability. My only concern with it is the open emitter design

 

[ARK_Ginger]

@Formidilosus I know your answer is Aimpoint, but how do you view the testing from Aron Cowan/Sage Dynamics? He seems to be the only one publicly dropping these things. I've been curious if his testing doesn't really show if the zero has shifted.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus I know your answer is Aimpoint, but how do you view the testing from Aron Cowan/Sage Dynamics? He seems to be the only one publicly dropping these things. I've been curious if his testing doesn't really show if the zero has shifted.

Major zero shifts with decent red dots are more about the mounting system than the optic itself.

As was stated already, in large agency testing when seeing dozens to hundreds of units tested and monitored, there is Aimpoint, then not quite as good Trijicon RMR, then a massive gap- and everyone else. Even when Holosun was selected over Aimpoint in a large contract, failures in the field were so frequent that they had to pull all of them and issue Aimpoints.


The Aimpoint Acro P2 (and more so the COA) is such an easy choice for pistol red dots.

 

[jonpall]

Major zero shifts with decent red dots are more about the mounting system than the optic itself.

As was stated already, in large agency testing when seeing dozens to hundreds of units tested and monitored, there is Aimpoint, then not quite as good Trijicon RMR, then a massive gap- and everyone else. Even when Holosun was selected over Aimpoint in a large contract, failures in the field were so frequent that they had to pull all of them and issue Aimpoints.


The Aimpoint Acro P2 (and more so the COA) is such an easy choice for pistol red dots.

I've heard from a lot of people that the acro is the way to go, but I've also heard from a few people that have had multiple issues with fogging, dust getting in the lens, and some other issues that have surprised me. Haven't heard of such issues with other aimpoint products. But it could all be overblown as well.

 

[RockAndSage]

Regarding the Holosun EPSc - it was an optic that looked perfect on paper for EDC, and I really wanted to like it, but it was an instant no-go as soon as I mounted it on the gun. I have a slight astigmatism, and the bloom was so bad that the sight was just unusable for me. I went back to RMRs because of this.

Lesson: Do whatever you can to look through and mess around with an RDS before you actually buy it - people's eyes are different. I learned the hard way that emitter and lens qualities differ significantly between manufacturers.

Regarding open-emitter designs - emitters getting blocked can be a thing, but I also think people make way, way too much out of it than is legitimate. It's more of a Tactical Timmy forum meme, considering the realities of most people, the same way people jawbone about the 1000yd ballistics of one cartridge vs another on deer, when they can't even go 10 for 10 on an 8" target at 400yds. As long as you're aware it can be an issue, it's not much of an issue to be concerned about. I'm far more concerned about crush/shatter durability and emitter clarity/durability.

there is Aimpoint, then not quite as good Trijicon RMR

Can you elaborate a bit on this? What kind of fails are most common for RMRs, as well as ACROs, with these large agency volumes?

 

[dtrkyman]

I’ve seen some crazy torture tests on cheap red dots, they function perfectly even after the glass is all busted up!

Guys beating them with rocks, throwing them on concrete, cycling the action with the dot on a table or the ground.

Maybe the cheap ones aren’t good long term but they seem to take a beating just fine!

I bought a Cylee for my turkey gun, zero issues, great features for the price!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TylerDurden3]

Trijicon, Aimpoint and Holosun are all really good choices. I think the bigger issues are with the mounting plates. It is definitely better to have the slide milled for the optic you choose. (Jagerwerks, atei etc..)If what you have is a MOS system it may be worth upgrading to a better plate. (C&h precision)

 

[xsn10s]

I'm still waiting for my blue label Glock 43x COA to come in. I may switch it to a G48 COA.

 

[Fatcamp]

Regarding the Holosun EPSc - it was an optic that looked perfect on paper for EDC, and I really wanted to like it, but it was an instant no-go as soon as I mounted it on the gun. I have a slight astigmatism, and the bloom was so bad that the sight was just unusable for me. I went back to RMRs because of this.

Lesson: Do whatever you can to look through and mess around with an RDS before you actually buy it - people's eyes are different. I learned the hard way that emitter and lens qualities differ significantly between manufacturers.

Regarding open-emitter designs - emitters getting blocked can be a thing, but I also think people make way, way too much out of it than is legitimate. It's more of a Tactical Timmy forum meme, considering the realities of most people, the same way people jawbone about the 1000yd ballistics of one cartridge vs another on deer, when they can't even go 10 for 10 on an 8" target at 400yds. As long as you're aware it can be an issue, it's not much of an issue to be concerned about. I'm far more concerned about crush/shatter durability and emitter clarity/durability.



Can you elaborate a bit on this? What kind of fails are most common for RMRs, as well as ACROs, with these large agency volumes?

100%. I have significant astigmatism. I use a Primary Arms SLX 1x on a black rifle that has an etched reticle and works great.

When I decided earlier this year to move to a rds on my pistol for USPSA I knew it would be a journey. I looked through about everything and honestly others experience did me no good. People say green is better, not for me, it's waaaay worse. RMR is a solid option? Not for me. I never looked through the Aimpoint but there rifle sights aren't horrible.

The Holuson sights with a 6moa dot were ok, but once I looked through a 507Comp I knew that was about as good as it would ever get.

Slide and optic are off getting milled now. Eventually it will come back and I can get to work with it.

Morale of the story, until you look through it you have no idea if it will work for you.

 

[josef]

The Aimpoint ACRO has major water ingress issues. People who havent found it havent checked waterproofing after live fire. Its not a matter of if but when it will lose its seal. Same/similar results with the EPS. The open sights obviously dont have these issues but they do have the debris in front of the emitter problem. Pick your poison.

 

[Fatcamp]

Nameless Arms | United States | Nameless Armament LLC

Nameless Armament. Match fit optic cut specialist. We are a small family run business focused on the highest level of quality work and customer service. All CAD, CAM, Machining, Coating, and services are performed in house by us. Proudly Veteran owned and operated.

www.namelessarms.com

This is who I have cutting my slide. Specifically because they cut to the individual optic versus a generic cut. Takes longer but I think it's a better way.

 

[nighthawkf-117]

@Formidilosus do you have any thoughts on open vs closed emitter for our hunting use? I open carry on a chest strap while hunting and do find myself doing a lot of bush whacking during my hunts

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus do you have any thoughts on open vs closed emitter for our hunting use? I open carry on a chest strap while hunting and do find myself doing a lot of bush whacking during my hunts

100% closed emitter. Now that there are reliable closed emitter options, there is no legitimate reason to choose an open emitter.

 

[justinspicher]

I’ve used an Acro for about four years now and had two mounting screws break on me. Both times I contacted Aimpoint and they promptly sent me a new one. I’m sure other manufacturers would have done the same thing, but I’ve only ever used Aimpoint.

 

[UKwildcatfan]

Hi,

I'm researching red dots for my pistol. I'll be the first to admit I'm not a great shooter with a pistol, and looking to give myself every advantage when it comes to defense with mine specifically while backpack hunting. Having shot red dot pistols on a range I find it much easier to aquire a target and engage than with just irons. Currently considering either a Holosun EPS or Aimpoint Acro. Is there any general consensus here about durability of these optics? I'm open to other options as well but I'm set on a closed emitter.

Thanks!

Have a couple of Trijicon RMR, a couple of Vortex venom and a couple of Sightmark mini on pistols. All have done well, no problems to speak of. The Trijicon is $200 more and the battery compartment on mine is on the bottom of the sight, meaning you have to remove the sight to replace the battery. Also have the Vortex and Sightmark on turkey guns. The pounding hasn't affected them so far.