Pfizer clinical trial data: not good at all

[Mule3006Elk]

Obesity increases risk for most everything. 25% of healthcare cost go to obesity related disease. I think that number is conservative. COVID-19 and obesity related risk is not new information. Will people try and lose weight because of this risk probably not.

 

[TreeStandAthlete]

I appreciate the input by actual healthcare professionals in this thread. Your views mirror those of the health care professionals that I know personally, and I trust them more than any news article.

On another note, @TreeStandAthlete can you please change your avatar photo? It's not necessarily (just) your body (if that's even you) that's grossing me out ...it's the ketchup.

If I have to look at your shitty fish then you get to look at my scent control regiment. Last I checked this was a free country

 

[MattB]

One theme I find interesting is that many will question the advice/motivations of big pharma, healthcare systems, government health agencies, etc. but take almost without question the direction/advice of people like the one in the OP - as though they are just good guys doing god’s work with no profit incentive whatsoever.

As intimated earlier in this thread, the COVID anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists are running an industry with annual revenue in excess of $1.0Bn, and I do not know if people who repeat their misinformation are willfully ignorant or complicit.

 

[willfrye027]

Are there current pre-hospitalization, early treatment regimens that are effective? If these were used early in the pandemic, how many people would have been saved?

To be honest i haven’t made up my mind on this. I am personally not taking anything for it but my symptoms are mild and I have no risk factors to have severe Covid. Unfortunately it’s not like taking antibiotics for strep throat…there’s no magic bullet out there that’s for sure.

 

[BBob]

I didn’t read very far into this thread. Malone is a patent whore, he’s in it for the $$$. He is named on a couple of scientific papers on mRNA and that’s it. Anyone that can search the scientific journals can see he’s not the so called expert he claims to be. Search and find what his research background really is. He’s another con, like so many others he’s pimping out Covid.

 

[Nickofthewoods]

If I have to look at your shitty fish then you get to look at my scent control regiment. Last I checked this was a free country

Based on that photo alone, you seem like a person that can take a joke so I figured I'd hurl one your way to lighten up this thread a little. I really do hate ketchup though.

 

[Actual_Cryptid]

Obesity only matters when it's a deflection. Remember when everybody lost their metaphorical shit over Michelle Obama's school lunch program or NYC putting sin taxes on buckets of carbonated corn syrup?

If we try to do anything about obesity it's "HOW DARE YOU TRY TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO." I dunno what doctors people are going to that aren't talking to them about diet, exercise and risk factors. I heard about it every time I see my doctor.

Although i suspect often it's less "doctors don't know anything about nutrition" and more "the medical community doesn't unanimously endorse the particular diet that I have been sold by someone directly making money by promising that this diet will cure all your ailments." That kinda mentality is rampant in the conspiracy world, and let's be honest with ourselves, Joe Rogan is a conspiracy promoter. He's a lightning rod for the grifters because he believes the things he wants to hear and pushes back when he doesn't like what he's hearing, but there's no research and he's not remotely educated or informed enough to be able to question claims or fact check a statement. He's a mediocre standup who was a decent MMA promoter/presenter and now for some reason he's turned into Broprah.

Which goes back to what MattB was saying. "If it's the CDC, well clearly they must be lying because they get paid! I know because this guy who endorses dietary supplements for money said so!"

I do wonder how many of the people self-administering vitamin and mineral megadoses were ever checked for deficiency beforehand. That's another one my doctor did when I was taking an antidepressant (managed treatment of PTSD symptoms). Ran a blood panel, talked about dietary sources, and since I also don't drink milk he recommended a couple different generic sources of vitamin D, talked about how to make sure I was getting decent bioavailability, and did follow-up panels to make sure I was within normal range. None of which he has a financial stake in.

But what do I know, I don't have a blog with paid advertising or a supplement endorsement deal.

 

[ODB]

Obesity increases risk for most everything. 25% of healthcare cost go to obesity related disease. I think that number is conservative. COVID-19 and obesity related risk is not new information. Will people try and lose weight because of this risk probably not.

if 80% of our public health professionals got on TV and connected covid deaths to obesity with no further political comments, you bet your ass people would listen.

the problem is they aren't - it's the vaxway or the highway...

 

[Vandy321]

if 80% of our public health professionals got on TV and connected covid deaths to obesity with no further political comments, you bet your ass people would listen.

the problem is they aren't - it's the vaxway or the highway...

There is no money for hospitals in folks losing weight/getting healthy. Keep them sick and coming back.

 

[MattB]

Obesity only matters when it's a deflection. Remember when everybody lost their metaphorical shit over Michelle Obama's school lunch program or NYC putting sin taxes on buckets of carbonated corn syrup?

If we try to do anything about obesity it's "HOW DARE YOU TRY TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO." I dunno what doctors people are going to that aren't talking to them about diet, exercise and risk factors. I heard about it every time I see my doctor.

Although i suspect often it's less "doctors don't know anything about nutrition" and more "the medical community doesn't unanimously endorse the particular diet that I have been sold by someone directly making money by promising that this diet will cure all your ailments."

Which goes back to what MattB was saying. "If it's the CDC, well clearly they must be lying because they get paid! I know because this guy who endorses dietary supplements for money said so!"

I do wonder how many of the people self-administering vitamin and mineral megadoses were ever checked for deficiency beforehand. That's another one my doctor did when I was taking an antidepressant (managed treatment of PTSD symptoms). Ran a blood panel, talked about dietary sources, and since I also don't drink milk he recommended a couple different generic sources of vitamin D, talked about how to make sure I was getting decent bioavailability, and did follow-up panels to make sure I was within normal range. None of which he has a financial stake in.

But what do I know, I don't have a blog with paid advertising or a supplement endorsement deal.

It has always struck me as queer that many of the people who won’t even commit the 30-60 minutes to take a vaccine that is effective and safe think the panacea for protection from COViD is simply to ask others to make wholesale lifestyle changes in terms of diet and exercise.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

if 80% of our public health professionals got on TV and connected covid deaths to obesity with no further political comments, you bet your ass people would listen.

the problem is they aren't - it's the vaxway or the highway...

Truth in that statement. I don't know about 80%. Public Health System is an absolute failure. There is virtually no effort, on a public scale, to educate the public. Not only about obesity but anything for that matter. Commercials, public radio, social media: all platforms that are not used for this purpose. I'm sure they would cite funding as an obstacle.

FWIW: a VERY small percentage of patients heed recommendation about diet and lifestyle modifications as a means for disease prevention or disease modification. If fact, those that do really stand out, because it happens far less than it should. When they do they get the PRAISES from me.

 

[Pocoloco]

Yaaa...let's keep perpetuating the misinformation campaign until the damn virus mutates to where it takes out 50% of the planet. Then we will assess our quality of life.
My Grandfather spent his whole life in a wheelchair from polio and spoke many times about how he just missed the vaccine.
Lucky we didn't have morons on the radio when we defeated polio, smallpox, mumps, measles, rubella etc, now shingles. Soon to be Lyme disease, possibly AIDS.
Go Joe...you patriot!

The fact is

I do not have real statistics just guesstimates so let me preface this by saying that.

The major complications from COVID that have required interventions at our institution have been the obvious, need for prolonged ventilation and supplementation/nutrition so they end up getting a tracheostomy and a PEG/feeding tube. Not a direct cause of COVID but and indirect result. The other, and a more a direct result of COVID is arterial clotting. Many patients who clotted off their arteries from the bifurcation of the aorta all the way down to their toes. Clotting of the mesentery which causes bowel is ischemia. And lastly, the pregnant mother who clotted off her artery to her placenta which has caused either intrauterine death of the fetus or premature labor.

As far as demographics go it depends on which wave of COVID we are referencing.

The first wave of COVID before a vaccine it was typically 55-100 yo patients the majority having at least one comorbidity. Obesity, BMI over 30, being the most prevalent. Males wee likely more common than females but I can’t say for certain.

Delta variant was 99% unvaccinated mainly 20s-50s. All patients were obese. Once again, likely more male than female but no specific numbers to confirm.

Obesity was the number one comorbidity. Not only for the needing to have surgery but if you needed a ventilator in the ICU. If you are obese……you appear to be the most at risk.

We lost two close family friends to covid, both unhealthy and overweight, one vaccinated one not. We also lost a healthy 41 year old friend who died two weeks after getting vaccinated. My cousin works on the covid floor, he says if you are on a ventilator good chance you will not survive, just cannot get the organs to take back their normal duties.

Medicine, in particular pharmaceuticals, has done a great job keeping a significant portion of our population alive, it has not made them healthy. Too many folks are lazy, and take the pill solution instead of the hard work required to get healthy.

Thank you for your candid responses. Hopefully we are at the end of this, but I fear the scars will last for some time.

 

[Pocoloco]

Truth in that statement. I don't know about 80%. Public Health System is an absolute failure. There is virtually no effort, on a public scale, to educate the public. Not only about obesity but anything for that matter. Commercials, public radio, social media: all platforms that are not used for this purpose. I'm sure they would cite funding as an obstacle.

FWIW: a VERY small percentage of patients heed recommendation about diet and lifestyle modifications as a means for disease prevention or disease modification. If fact, those that do really stand out, because it happens far less than it should. When they do they get the PRAISES from me.

Most folks want the easy solution, lets face it, especially if they are overweight as you didn’t get they way by doing hard work. So lets say your a doc and you preach, we can do the hard work, or I can prescribe you this pill. And the pharma company makes a ton of money of that pill and wines and dines the doc to get him/her to prescribe the pill, what do you think he/she will push. It is only natural, after all their customers are asking for it. Then something horrible like covid comes along, these same folks will be clamoring for an easy solution and honestly, given their risk profile that might be a good choice for them.

 

[Pocoloco]

Obesity only matters when it's a deflection. Remember when everybody lost their metaphorical shit over Michelle Obama's school lunch program or NYC putting sin taxes on buckets of carbonated corn syrup?

If we try to do anything about obesity it's "HOW DARE YOU TRY TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO." I dunno what doctors people are going to that aren't talking to them about diet, exercise and risk factors. I heard about it every time I see my doctor.

Although i suspect often it's less "doctors don't know anything about nutrition" and more "the medical community doesn't unanimously endorse the particular diet that I have been sold by someone directly making money by promising that this diet will cure all your ailments." That kinda mentality is rampant in the conspiracy world, and let's be honest with ourselves, Joe Rogan is a conspiracy promoter. He's a lightning rod for the grifters because he believes the things he wants to hear and pushes back when he doesn't like what he's hearing, but there's no research and he's not remotely educated or informed enough to be able to question claims or fact check a statement. He's a mediocre standup who was a decent MMA promoter/presenter and now for some reason he's turned into Broprah.

Which goes back to what MattB was saying. "If it's the CDC, well clearly they must be lying because they get paid! I know because this guy who endorses dietary supplements for money said so!"

I do wonder how many of the people self-administering vitamin and mineral megadoses were ever checked for deficiency beforehand. That's another one my doctor did when I was taking an antidepressant (managed treatment of PTSD symptoms). Ran a blood panel, talked about dietary sources, and since I also don't drink milk he recommended a couple different generic sources of vitamin D, talked about how to make sure I was getting decent bioavailability, and did follow-up panels to make sure I was within normal range. None of which he has a financial stake in.

But what do I know, I don't have a blog with paid advertising or a supplement endorsement deal.

Our food supply provides a poor supply of vitamins because the land doesn’t rest, getting a natural resupply of nutrients. My wife and have had so many blood test and take supplements based on the results. Vitamin D is now on my low list, moved to Idaho from Florida and lets just say I don’t get the same amount of exposure to the sun.

If you found a doc who looks at your nutrition levels in blood, hang on tight as you have likely found a good doc

 

[Crowmangler]

Much like almost every other institution in the country, a large percentage of the medical / big pharma / gov't agencies have proven themselves to be unworthy of our trust. After 2 years of blatant lies & censorship of anything that doesn't fit their narrative, we now have about half the country who doesn't believe a F'ing thing they say anymore. If you're being honest with yourself, you'll agree with me. The sad part is that whenever something really bad happens it's gonna make it 10x worse & they only have themselves to blame.

 

[qwerksc]

Looks like everyone has a brand new religion. Still divided…

 

[Actual_Cryptid]

Our food supply provides a poor supply of vitamins because the land doesn’t rest, getting a natural resupply of nutrients. My wife and have had so many blood test and take supplements based on the results. Vitamin D is now on my low list, moved to Idaho from Florida and lets just say I don’t get the same amount of exposure to the sun.

If you found a doc who looks at your nutrition levels in blood, hang on tight as you have likely found a good doc

Show me some numbers to back up the suggestion that people are actually malnourished in the US. We actually have better bioavailability of essential vitamins and minerals through fortification programs (look at the vitamin profile of white bread some time) and have for most of a century.

The blood tests you took, how were they administered and what guidelines were used to assess nutritional deficiency?

I don't know why anyone is looking at our vaccination rates and thinking that the problem is that people would be healthier if we just told them not to be fat and to eat better. Everything in media overwhelmingly tells you to not be fat, to the point where any message other than "fat people are ugly and dumb" stands out, and is pretty frequently called out. Further, there is no shortage of people promoting supposedly healthier diets. I can't spend 30.minutes on the elliptical without seeing at least 2 different commercials for a diet, supplements, or weight loss programs. Honestly I don't know how anyone could exist in the US and think that the problem is that people just aren't getting the message that they're probably fat and need some kind of supplement or diet change. If you're going to say the problem is that we don't.get that message enough, I have some serious doubts about how well you have thought that through, and how effective yet another media campaign would be.

I'll broaden my reply to briefly mock the statement that hospitals don't make any money off making people healthier. A hospital is probably one of the very few places that keeps an actual panel of nutritionists employed as part of the care routine. But hospitals are not regular medicine, they are by their very nature the last line of defense.

Now if you ask me we could eliminate the profit motive in medicine by just nationalizing all of it. Anything short of that, there's always going to be a profit motive for somebody. That would include repealing the current exemptions that allow "supplements" not to be regulated as food or drugs by the FDA. Make dietary supplements subject to the same rules as drugs with regard to proving that they are in fact effective at treating the condition they claim to treat and I wager you'll quickly see an end to the supplement industry. Make it illegal to advertise drugs, and make the government (the people) the primary shareholder if the not the sole shareholder in every pharmaceutical company, the sole insurer, and the sole employer of healthcare workers. Tada, no more profit involved. Bonus, it's much cheaper to employ doctors and we can afford to maintain surplus capacity of workers beyond what's profitable!

Bonus for the "blame obesity" people, we could end our corn subsidy programs. I'm sure everybody can agree that's one of the fastest ways to stop having corn syrup in everything. If we really wanted to act we could spend some money taxing fast food and subsidizing healthier eating.

Of course this would interfere with the free market, end a significant number of profitable grifts (go look at how many dietary supplements are manufactured by drug companies and their subsidiaries), and it would immediately be decried as communism. Strange too that the "small government" wing of our political sphere never seems to talk much about ending our corn subsidies or restructuring our farm subsidies to make people healthier. I will wager that these fairly obvious steps are for some reason not popular here, despite how effective they are at addressing the problems that we do agree exist.

 

[lif]

Getting my 2 cents in before this is shut down..

I am an MD, been in the Covid trenches since day 1 essentially.

Absolutely agree that the general public has been fleeced with false hope and promises surrounding the vaccine.

To say that the vaccine increases risk of illness and death is absurd. We have so much data beyond the clinical trials to support this. This is probably the one reason I recommend family and friends to be vaccinated…it does a good job of preventing you from dying or staying in the hospital from Covid. Not perfect, but very good at it. As I type this I’m recovering from Covid myself, thankfully mild symptoms.

Aside from the data, I’ve seen first hand lots (hundreds) of folks sick and dying from Covid. None of the really sick/dying were vaccinated that I saw. There were a few I heard about in our hospital but very rare.

Believe what you want, get the jab(s) or not, but probably best to avoid fringe junk like this. Worse than clickbait.

Could you share the data that shows the vaccine is safe and not dangerous as you stated? I figure since you’re a Doctor, and you are recommending people to get the vaccine, you could share your information with us. I keep hearing that the cdc and the vaccine companies have already admitted to nearly 20,000 Deaths from the vaccine. I’ve also heard no other medication in American history has been allowed to stay on the market with even a hundred deaths reported. My information could very well be incorrect, but I am very curious where doctors like yourself get your data and information from. Your insight could help a lot of us understand some truths or falses. Thanks in advance for your response.

 

[Actual_Cryptid]

Could you share the data that shows the vaccine is safe and not dangerous as you stated? I figure since you’re a Doctor, and you are recommending people to get the vaccine, you could share your information with us. I keep hearing that the cdc and the vaccine companies have already admitted to nearly 20,000 Deaths from the vaccine. I’ve also heard no other medication in American history has been allowed to stay on the market with even a hundred deaths reported. My information could very well be incorrect, but I am very curious where doctors like yourself get your data and information from. Your insight could help a lot of us understand some truths or falses. Thanks in advance for your response.

In the interest of transparency why don't you share where you're getting your data and information from too?

 

[lif]

In the interest of transparency why don't you share where you're getting your data and information from too?

I’m hearing it on podcasts, YouTube videos, and some from the main stream news. As well as just word of mouth from friends. I’m not claiming I’m correct, I’m just trying to gather information from every source I can. I’m not telling people not to get vaccinated, nor am I telling people to get vaccinated. I’m trying to figure it out for myself. I’m always interested to hear where our health professionals get their information from. They are the ones we are supposed to trust. When I hear a Doctor openly say it is safe and that they try to encourage everyone they know to take it, and that Doctor has seen data to prove that, I am very interested in that source. As should everyone who is taking medications. I think the deaths associated with the vaccine might be on the actual cdc website as well.