Pet Peeve of mine...

[Dos Perros]

Are people denying it's happening, or don't care that it is, or both I guess?

 

[sndmn11]

Are people denying it's happening, or don't care that it is, or both I guess?

I'm saying "it" is meaningless; about as thought provoking as seeing a vehicle in a parking lot or bike in a bike rack.

 

[Laramie]

Are people denying it's happening, or don't care that it is, or both I guess?

It definitely happens and I personally don't care at all. Where a person chooses to park his camper and for how long has never really impacted my ability to shoot an elk. If someone wants to camp in a spot so bad that they show up weeks before to make sure they get "their" spot, I will probably be dealing with them hunting there regardless of whether they have to move camp.

 

[Phaseolus]

The USFS contracts with private companies to run their campgrounds, they ought to contract with towing services to remove long term camper vehicles. The Forest Service can levy a fine and the towing company gets the tow and retrieval fees. It would stop real quick this way.

 

[Dos Perros]

@sndmn11 @Laramie I think your opinions are valid. I'm just of the mind that if a rule is so impractical as to not be enforced, maybe ditch the rule. But while we have the rule, enforce it. I'm going to make a big extrapolation here so bear with me...

Maybe I'm not old enough to know if this has been happening forever, but it seems like we're in there phase in our country where one side passes a law, and those that don't like it just decide not to enforce it. It completely undermines the concept of our republic.

Back to the topic, it doesn't really bother me other than I know it's against the rules. And I think there is a great opportunity for improvement in the rules and process.

 

[Carr5vols]

Nothing that a box of roofing nails want fix for many years...

 

[TAArrowood]

Sort of been following this thread to see where it goes.. I live in the east and have hunted elk and mule deer in the west every year for the last 35 years.. I've gotten to know a lot of locals and have gained there trust over the years.. I actually had a local tell me that he and his buddies went out several days before season and put up tents and parked old campers (with local tags) in areas where elk hadn't been seen for years... He said that a lot or non-residents would see the "resident tags" and would assume the residents knew where the game was.. They would leave plenty of space for as many non-residents as possible.. Once season opened, they'd hunt their favorite spots, free from roaming non-residents... Just another point of view.. It is really interesting to see how people view the same issue... I try to find the game and take my chances on facilities.. I've been pretty successful doing it that way... All the best and good season everyone!!

 

[5MilesBack]

Maybe I'm not old enough to know if this has been happening forever, but it seems like we're in there phase in our country where one side passes a law, and those that don't like it just decide not to enforce it. It completely undermines the concept of our republic.

We are in a phase where it doesn't matter who passed the law, there's a general consensus from some groups of people that they're just going to ignore all laws and do "whatever is right in their own minds". And then there's a whole group that just wants to look the other way when any and all laws are broken unless someone from a particular political persuasion does something they don't like.

But in regards to the USFS 14 day "rule"......it's not an absolute. Even rangers will tell you, it's not an issue when there's several other "open" campsites around for folks to camp in. Wanting someone out of a particular campsite just because they want that site isn't a compelling argument to cite them.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

Doesn't bother me. I like the hunters who hunt from their basecamp trailers.
I'm more worried about the guys that stay on the mountain in their puny tents.

 

[Laramie]

@sndmn11 @Laramie I think your opinions are valid. I'm just of the mind that if a rule is so impractical as to not be enforced, maybe ditch the rule. But while we have the rule, enforce it. I'm going to make a big extrapolation here so bear with me...

Maybe I'm not old enough to know if this has been happening forever, but it seems like we're in there phase in our country where one side passes a law, and those that don't like it just decide not to enforce it. It completely undermines the concept of our republic.

Back to the topic, it doesn't really bother me other than I know it's against the rules. And I think there is a great opportunity for improvement in the rules and process.

I understand your side of this but will add some perspective.

The camping day limit rules were initially intended to keep people from basically living on public land. Some people in the past essentially lived off grid on the forest for free. Those sites typically ended up being pretty trashy and were viewed negatively by the general public. Also, the long term camp sites historically have also been used by people conducting illegal activities of one form or another. The rules were created to provide law enforcement with a tool to prevent those situations.

The rules were never intended to keep a guy from camping too many days during hunting seasons. That is why they are seldom enforced unless there is a complaint.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

LE sucks to say to least in our NFs lands. Deal out your own karma cards to the aholes who abuse our public lands and resources. Ride your ebike, ATV, dirtbike where its illegal? Have fun pushing it back to the truck. Leave your sh*t in the woods for more than 2 weeks? Thats just garbage that needs to be cleaned up to me now.

 

[Laramie]

LE sucks to say to least in our NFs lands. Deal out your own karma cards to the aholes who abuse our public lands and resources. Ride your ebike, ATV, dirtbike where its illegal? Have fun pushing it back to the truck. Leave your sh*t in the woods for more than 2 weeks? Thats just garbage that needs to be cleaned up to me now.

Pretty far stretch. Equating illegal destruction of forest land to camping is not the same. Ask a ranger or give a call to any forest service office and see how they view the two. As for you cleaning up someone's "garbage", that is good way to find yourself in a really, really bad situation. Not only would it be considered a felony, you better hope you don't meet the owners while you are doing it.

 

[sndmn11]

@sndmn11 @Laramie I think your opinions are valid. I'm just of the mind that if a rule is so impractical as to not be enforced, maybe ditch the rule. But while we have the rule, enforce it. I'm going to make a big extrapolation here so bear with me...

Maybe I'm not old enough to know if this has been happening forever, but it seems like we're in there phase in our country where one side passes a law, and those that don't like it just decide not to enforce it. It completely undermines the concept of our republic.

Back to the topic, it doesn't really bother me other than I know it's against the rules. And I think there is a great opportunity for improvement in the rules and process.

Literally, my first law enforcement position was in the county that the OP is in. My understanding from all USFS personnel I communicated with at the time is that what is being referred to in this thread is not a rule or law. It is a guideline for each district to use in describing their own discretionary policy and procedure for their enforcement personnel. Some districts leave a lot of context evaluation to their personnel and some do not. 99% of citable offenses are discretionary on top of that regardless of which laws/statutes are being applied.

Do you want $100 ticket for having a brake light out when you just left the parts store and the replacement is in a bag on the passenger seat? That's discretionary.

If it were an outfitter setting up a camp to "claim" the space so less hunters were around their clients, or a suspected rogue outfitter, or money is involved somehow, I'm sure attention would be given.

For someone hunting all of archery season, "no problem if you don't cause a problem", comes to mind as a proper approach in working one's way through the guidelines set forth by the boss of the district.

 

[KHNC]

Many years ago I left my wall tent set up while I came back home for a few days.

Upon my return to the tent, I found a note inside with a $20 bill.

The note read something to the effect of “ Thanks for the use of your tent and cots. We were lost and wet. “

Signed "Dirty Mike & The Boys"?

 

[Poser]

 

[cnelk]

The CPW doesn’t enforce the required Habitat Stamp or required fishing license at most of the SWAs.

That rule just went into effect a couple years ago.

I fish at a nearby SWA and paddleboards and swimming are not allowed.
You should see all the paddleboards and swimmers in the lake.

Should I put nails around their vehicles?
Shit by their car?

Nah. Not my style.
That’s lowlife stuff there.

 

[roosiebull]

Go in and set up amongst them if you desire one of those spots.
One thing I have realized: The number of considerate and morally acceptable people in this world is dwindling.

It’s unfortunately, and plainly obvious… lately it seems like it’s at a rapid rate too…. Zombie land

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Pretty far stretch. Equating illegal destruction of forest land to camping is not the same. Ask a ranger or give a call to any forest service office and see how they view the two. As for you cleaning up someone's "garbage", that is good way to find yourself in a really, really bad situation. Not only would it be considered a felony, you better hope you don't meet the owners while you are doing it.

We should live by “leave no trace”. I’m referring to people that stash tents/sleeping bags/water cans/etc in the woods for weeks or even the season. This is garbage that needs to be removed. Public lands are not to be abused by selfish people, or karma will get them if certain people are around. By all means I prefer LE handle it first but like we all know the are far too understaffed and not utilized enough in most situations.

 

[ReaptheHeat]

Literally, my first law enforcement position was in the county that the OP is in. My understanding from all USFS personnel I communicated with at the time is that what is being referred to in this thread is not a rule or law. It is a guideline for each district to use in describing their own discretionary policy and procedure for their enforcement personnel. Some districts leave a lot of context evaluation to their personnel and some do not. 99% of citable offenses are discretionary on top of that regardless of which laws/statutes are being applied.

Do you want $100 ticket for having a brake light out when you just left the parts store and the replacement is in a bag on the passenger seat? That's discretionary.

If it were an outfitter setting up a camp to "claim" the space so less hunters were around their clients, or a suspected rogue outfitter, or money is involved somehow, I'm sure attention would be given.

For someone hunting all of archery season, "no problem if you don't cause a problem", comes to mind as a proper approach in working one's way through the guidelines set forth by the boss of the district.

My understanding is that each district issues an order/mandate that dictates policy. This order is backed by a court (maybe District level?).

But as you said, enforcement has a lot of discretion to it.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Doesn't bother me. I like the hunters who hunt from their basecamp trailers.
I'm more worried about the guys that stay on the mountain in their puny tents.

This^
I get a little peeved by guys that take quads and SxS on trails they aren’t allowed on, but at the same time if you are driving that thing around there is 99% chance you aren’t gaining much elevation with your boots. I just shrug it off and laugh when those guys complain about not seeing elk or hearing bugles