Permethrin over DWR clothes

[LA Hunter]

I just crawled out from under a rock and discovered Permethrin use in clothes from a recent 'HuntBackcountry' podcast. I discovered this thread after researching 'what to apply first—a DWR coat or Permethrin?' The best answer I found was from a Backpacker Article in 2010:

Waterproofing first, then permethrin, according to a representative at Sawyer Products, maker of one popular permethrin treatment: Permethrin Clothing Insect Repellant. Permethrin won't harm the fabric or the DWR (durable water repellent), but it won't be able to do its job if it's sealed below it either.​

The posts above this one about Dawn's use intrigued me. I use Dawn not just for dishes and everything I spray- plants, grass, pre-treat, etc. I was bummed by the correct precautionary advice that it damages your DWR finish.

Dawn, as a legendary dish soap, includes emulsifiers that make it highly effective at removing grease, oils, but sadly, our precious DWR finish. Dawn also has a surfactant that helps the emulsifiers improve coverage by making things 'wetter'. I used to think Dawn was a surfactant, but technically, it has surfactant within it.

Surfactants are not soap and can be purchased separately. Surfactants don't chemically degrade DWR Coatings. Conceptually, their physical properties counteract the beading properties of DWR coatings, but by how much?

Do any of you know if 'just a little versus a lot' of surfactant is used with the Permethrin - would that improve the intended coverage, but not diminish water-beading properties of DWR? Any tips on mixing quantities?

I also found it helpful that regular laundry detergents are similar to Dawn- they break down DWR. So special soap is necessary for your DWR and water-repellent gear. The soap below is for DWR, and curiously, it has surfactant in it but doesn't have the harmful properties of common soaps.

This summer, my to-do list is to treat my nylon and dyneema shell fabrics (tent, bags, jackets, tarps, etc.) with Nikwax Tech Wash and then Nikwax Spray. This is my first time using Nikwax. Then, I will apply Permethrin from Tractor Supply with the right water dilution. I'm still evaluating the addition of surfactant.

I'm a DIY guy and don't plan to ship in my stuff for a factory coating of Insect Shield; looks like a great company and a reasonable cost for this service, but this project looks fun.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I just crawled out from under a rock and discovered Permethrin use in clothes from a recent 'HuntBackcountry' podcast. I discovered this thread after researching 'what to apply first—a DWR coat or Permethrin?' The best answer I found was from a Backpacker Article in 2010:

Waterproofing first, then permethrin, according to a representative at Sawyer Products, maker of one popular permethrin treatment: Permethrin Clothing Insect Repellant. Permethrin won't harm the fabric or the DWR (durable water repellent), but it won't be able to do its job if it's sealed below it either.​

The posts above this one about Dawn's use intrigued me. I use Dawn not just for dishes and everything I spray- plants, grass, pre-treat, etc. I was bummed by the correct precautionary advice that it damages your DWR finish.

Dawn, as a legendary dish soap, includes emulsifiers that make it highly effective at removing grease, oils, but sadly, our precious DWR finish. Dawn also has a surfactant that helps the emulsifiers improve coverage by making things 'wetter'. I used to think Dawn was a surfactant, but technically, it has surfactant within it.

Surfactants are not soap and can be purchased separately. Surfactants don't chemically degrade DWR Coatings. Conceptually, their physical properties counteract the beading properties of DWR coatings, but by how much?

Do any of you know if 'just a little versus a lot' of surfactant is used with the Permethrin - would that improve the intended coverage, but not diminish water-beading properties of DWR? Any tips on mixing quantities?

I also found it helpful that regular laundry detergents are similar to Dawn- they break down DWR. So special soap is necessary for your DWR and water-repellent gear. The soap below is for DWR, and curiously, it has surfactant in it but doesn't have the harmful properties of common soaps.

This summer, my to-do list is to treat my nylon and dyneema shell fabrics (tent, bags, jackets, tarps, etc.) with Nikwax Tech Wash and then Nikwax Spray. This is my first time using Nikwax. Then, I will apply Permethrin from Tractor Supply with the right water dilution. I'm still evaluating the addition of surfactant.

I'm a DIY guy and don't plan to ship in my stuff for a factory coating of Insect Shield; looks like a great company and a reasonable cost for this service, but this project looks fun.

I get the 36% from Domyown.com

Mix my own and spray cloths down and let dry.

If I put my ratio on line I’m sure someone would give me a lecture and call EPA/FBI/etc.

But I don’t have tick issues……

Sawyers pre-made is ok. It works but it’s very light,

 

[MTriplett]

I just crawled out from under a rock and discovered Permethrin use in clothes from a recent 'HuntBackcountry' podcast. I discovered this thread after researching 'what to apply first—a DWR coat or Permethrin?' The best answer I found was from a Backpacker Article in 2010:

Waterproofing first, then permethrin, according to a representative at Sawyer Products, maker of one popular permethrin treatment: Permethrin Clothing Insect Repellant. Permethrin won't harm the fabric or the DWR (durable water repellent), but it won't be able to do its job if it's sealed below it either.​

The posts above this one about Dawn's use intrigued me. I use Dawn not just for dishes and everything I spray- plants, grass, pre-treat, etc. I was bummed by the correct precautionary advice that it damages your DWR finish.

Dawn, as a legendary dish soap, includes emulsifiers that make it highly effective at removing grease, oils, but sadly, our precious DWR finish. Dawn also has a surfactant that helps the emulsifiers improve coverage by making things 'wetter'. I used to think Dawn was a surfactant, but technically, it has surfactant within it.

Surfactants are not soap and can be purchased separately. Surfactants don't chemically degrade DWR Coatings. Conceptually, their physical properties counteract the beading properties of DWR coatings, but by how much?

Do any of you know if 'just a little versus a lot' of surfactant is used with the Permethrin - would that improve the intended coverage, but not diminish water-beading properties of DWR? Any tips on mixing quantities?

I also found it helpful that regular laundry detergents are similar to Dawn- they break down DWR. So special soap is necessary for your DWR and water-repellent gear. The soap below is for DWR, and curiously, it has surfactant in it but doesn't have the harmful properties of common soaps.

This summer, my to-do list is to treat my nylon and dyneema shell fabrics (tent, bags, jackets, tarps, etc.) with Nikwax Tech Wash and then Nikwax Spray. This is my first time using Nikwax. Then, I will apply Permethrin from Tractor Supply with the right water dilution. I'm still evaluating the addition of surfactant.

I'm a DIY guy and don't plan to ship in my stuff for a factory coating of Insect Shield; looks like a great company and a reasonable cost for this service, but this project looks fun.

.32 ozs of surfactant per gallon of mix is 1/4% and is what most herbicides call for. Not many insecticides call for surfactant as a general rule.


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[MTriplett]

I just crawled out from under a rock and discovered Permethrin use in clothes from a recent 'HuntBackcountry' podcast. I discovered this thread after researching 'what to apply first—a DWR coat or Permethrin?' The best answer I found was from a Backpacker Article in 2010:

Waterproofing first, then permethrin, according to a representative at Sawyer Products, maker of one popular permethrin treatment: Permethrin Clothing Insect Repellant. Permethrin won't harm the fabric or the DWR (durable water repellent), but it won't be able to do its job if it's sealed below it either.​

The posts above this one about Dawn's use intrigued me. I use Dawn not just for dishes and everything I spray- plants, grass, pre-treat, etc. I was bummed by the correct precautionary advice that it damages your DWR finish.

Dawn, as a legendary dish soap, includes emulsifiers that make it highly effective at removing grease, oils, but sadly, our precious DWR finish. Dawn also has a surfactant that helps the emulsifiers improve coverage by making things 'wetter'. I used to think Dawn was a surfactant, but technically, it has surfactant within it.

Surfactants are not soap and can be purchased separately. Surfactants don't chemically degrade DWR Coatings. Conceptually, their physical properties counteract the beading properties of DWR coatings, but by how much?

Do any of you know if 'just a little versus a lot' of surfactant is used with the Permethrin - would that improve the intended coverage, but not diminish water-beading properties of DWR? Any tips on mixing quantities?

I also found it helpful that regular laundry detergents are similar to Dawn- they break down DWR. So special soap is necessary for your DWR and water-repellent gear. The soap below is for DWR, and curiously, it has surfactant in it but doesn't have the harmful properties of common soaps.

This summer, my to-do list is to treat my nylon and dyneema shell fabrics (tent, bags, jackets, tarps, etc.) with Nikwax Tech Wash and then Nikwax Spray. This is my first time using Nikwax. Then, I will apply Permethrin from Tractor Supply with the right water dilution. I'm still evaluating the addition of surfactant.

I'm a DIY guy and don't plan to ship in my stuff for a factory coating of Insect Shield; looks like a great company and a reasonable cost for this service, but this project looks fun.

.32 ozs of surfactant per gallon of mix is 1/4% and is what most herbicides call for. Not many insecticides call for surfactant as a general rule.


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[manitou1]

In the military we were given large packets of it to make a solution in a tub and instructed to soak our uniforms in it.
This was prior to going in to third world countries/Afghanistan.

 

[mtmontgo]

If you saturate your clothes with permethrin or shove them in a bucket like someone else mentioned, it should work. I spent many days in the hospital because of a tick bite. This is a solid question that you raised, but even dwr is not "waterproof", so you should be fine if the material is saturated.

 

[LA Hunter]

.32 ozs of surfactant per gallon of mix is 1/4% and is what most herbicides call for. Not many insecticides call for surfactant as a general rule.


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I'm glad you mentioned this. I just found that some dish soaps can harm tender plants if too much is used for their surfactant benefits. In rare cases, I see that the dish soap can counteract or react adversely with the pesticide chemicals.

A small amount of dish soap for its surfactant benefits fosters even coverage of the pesticide on the plants.

 

[LA Hunter]

If you saturate your clothes with permethrin or shove them in a bucket like someone else mentioned, it should work. I spent many days in the hospital because of a tick bite. This is a solid question that you raised, but even dwr is not "waterproof", so you should be fine if the material is saturated.

I like the bucket soak idea.

I'll get some dish gloves and soak away.

Thanks!