Pedersoli

[43.6N]

I need some help from the long time muzzleloader guys on here.

I’ve been curious about getting to these guns to hunt my home state of Idaho for a long time. But always ended up reverting back to archery when it comes time to put money down for tags.

A good family friend who owns a pawn shop recently came across an estate of guns, and he notified me about a Pedersoli double barreled 50 cal. He’s given me a generous price on it if I’m interested. Reportedly it’s in excellent condition, but I haven’t actually seen it myself.

So my question, what should I be looking for when I go to examine the gun? Any known issues with Pedersoli guns to be aware of? I’ve been buying used guns for years, but freely acknowledge my limits when evaluating black powder guns.

Thanks guys.

 

[ElDiablito]

Sounds cool!

Biggest thing is the bore on a used rifle. Many used muzzleloaders have been left uncleaned and have corrosion/pitting in the bore especially if the owner used black powder or one of the corrosive subs. Some corrosion won’t necessarily negatively affect the shootability, but extensive pitting will make the rifle much harder to clean. I’d inspect the bore(s) and check the hammers for function and spring strength. Use a bore scope if you or your buddy has one.

 

[EdP]

Double barreled rifle or shotgun? I would stay away from a dbl barrel rifle. The locks (flintlocks) on Pedersoli guns are not particularly good. I don't know about their cap locks.

One of the best deals in traditional MLs now are Jim Kibler kits. Assembly is simplified considerably by CNC machined metal and wood. Kibler can also hook you up with a skilled builder that will assemble the kit for an additional cost if you don't want to take that on. Kibler recently released a new model, a Hawken rifle, that might interest you. His rifles are considerably less expensive than custom builds, but still not cheap compared with many common modern hunting rifles from commercial mfgs.

 

[Chris in TN]

Sounds cool!

Biggest thing is the bore on a used rifle. Many used muzzleloaders have been left uncleaned and have corrosion/pitting in the bore especially if the owner used black powder or one of the corrosive subs. Some corrosion won’t necessarily negatively affect the shootability, but extensive pitting will make the rifle much harder to clean. I’d inspect the bore(s) and check the hammers for function and spring strength. Use a bore scope if you or your buddy has one.

^^What he said, and tagged for pictures if you get it.

 

[43.6N]

Double barreled rifle or shotgun? I would stay away from a dbl barrel rifle. The locks (flintlocks) on Pedersoli guns are not particularly good. I don't know about their cap locks.

One of the best deals in traditional MLs now are Jim Kibler kits. Assembly is simplified considerably by CNC machined metal and wood. Kibler can also hook you up with a skilled builder that will assemble the kit for an additional cost if you don't want to take that on. Kibler recently released a new model, a Hawken rifle, that might interest you. His rifles are considerably less expensive than custom builds, but still not cheap compared with many common modern hunting rifles from

My understanding is that it is a Pedersoli double barreled muzzle loaded rifle. 50 cal. 24” barrel with a 1/24” twist.

Beyond that I don’t have a lot to go off of until my friend actually takes possession of it into his inventory.

I started googling around, and have a suspicion that it’s some type of Kodiak express model. But again, this is all sight unseen at the moment.

Can you elaborate a little more on why you would stay away from a double barreled rifle?

 

[43.6N]

^^What he said, and tagged for pictures if you get it.

Thanks for tagging in. I’ll try and get pictures as soon as able.

 

[RockAndSage]

That's a cool gun. Another thing to look at is the nipples, where the caps go. An uncleaned gun, or one that has sat for a long time without cleaning then got cleaned later, will often show that same corrosion and/or pitting the @ElDiablito mentioned to look for in the bore.

 

[43.6N]

That's a cool gun. Another thing to look at is the nipples, where the caps go. An uncleaned gun, or one that has sat for a long time without cleaning then got cleaned later, will often show that same corrosion and/or pitting the @ElDiablito mentioned to look for in the bore.

Thanks man.
How should I go assess the nipples?
Probe with a small gauge wire?

-he said trying to keep a straight face-

 

[RockAndSage]

Thanks man.
How should I go assess the nipples?
Probe with a small gauge wire?

Mostly visually for corrosion, as an indicator of bore condition. They're pretty easy to take off with a nipple wrench as well, if there isn't a lot of corrosion underneath, and are easy to replace. But mostly, look at them as a proxy for bore condition.

 

[ElDiablito]

Pedersoli makes the Kodiak. Maybe that’s what it is. I’d like to have one for Africa. Let me know if you buy it and it doesn’t suit you 43.

Pedersoli™ Kodiak Express Mark III Rifle - .50 Cal

Smooth Bore Pedersoli® Kodiak Express Mark III Rifle - L.245-50 - .50 Cal Percussion Side-by-Side Rifle, American Walnut Stock w/ 28 9/16" Blued Barrels. Best Prices, Free Shipping, Expert Advice!

muzzle-loaders.com

 

[43.6N]

What’s the general thought on double rifles from you guys with more experience in this world?

Having the quick follow up shot seems like it would only be a positive

 

[TaperPin]

Thanks for tagging in. I’ll try and get pictures as soon as able.

These came out when rifling twist rates for maxi balls was common wasn’t it? If you had your heart set on a new bullet that requires a faster twist it might be a bummer. I can’t ever remember someone mentioning how these shoot, but if you like small groups one of the more modern designs will shoot better. Really cool rifle though and maxi balls still kill things just fine at iron sight range.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

What’s the general thought on double rifles from you guys with more experience in this world?

Having the quick follow up shot seems like it would only be a positive

If they are properly regulated, there aren’t any issues.

Double barreled muzzleloader rifles aren’t legal in every state.

 

[43.6N]

These came out when rifling twist rates for maxi balls was common wasn’t it? If you had your heart set on a new bullet that requires a faster twist it might be a bummer. I can’t ever remember someone mentioning how these shoot, but if you like small groups one of the more modern designs will shoot better. Really cool rifle though and maxi balls still kill things just fine at iron sight range.

I’ve put out feelers over the last couple of years, and anybody local who I would consider a potential muzzleloading mentor are all still shooting very heavy soft lead slugs. I had a 600gr bullet recommended when I was discussing getting into black powder with one of those guys last week.

But these are dyed in the wool Idaho black powder guys who found what worked for them before Idaho liberalized bullet choices.

That being said, I’m planning on rifle first, then figuring out what to shoot out of it

 

[43.6N]

If they are properly regulated, there aren’t any issues.

Double barreled muzzleloader rifles aren’t legal in every state.

Good point Q. Guess I’ll need to double check my Idaho regs before deciding

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Good point Q. Guess I’ll need to double check my Idaho regs before deciding

Apart from the potential legal issues, making sure the barrels are properly regulated to shoot to the same point takes a decent amount of craftsmanship. Pedersoli has made some decent stuff, but I have never checked out their double rifles.

 

[Jebel]

A double barrel muzzleloader rifles are legal in Idaho, last I checked. But not in Oregon, Nevada, or Colorado, if that matters to you.

 

[TaperPin]

The rear sight is two pieces that fold down, one for one barrel and one for the other. That would take some time to remember changing inbetween shots, but neat to have two shots.

 

[ElDiablito]

If this is a Kodiak it may have a 1:24” twist barrel, which is a very versatile twist for .50. A 22 is even better.

Most off the shelf .50 inlines are 1:28 - which is too slow.

I wouldn’t carry a double for most North American hunts. On a brown bear or African dangerous game hunt, it would be nice.

I like light rifles for western backcountry hunting. Six pounds bare is a nice weight.

 

[EdP]

My understanding is that it is a Pedersoli double barreled muzzle loaded rifle. 50 cal. 24” barrel with a 1/24” twist.

Can you elaborate a little more on why you would stay away from a double barreled rifle?

I shoot traditional ML rifles and smoothbores. Flintlocks all and patched roundball only in my rifles. These are high quality custom pieces. Others in the same game often start with a Pedersoli rifle and soon learn that they don't have the same reliability as a quality gun. It isn't that they don't shoot well because they do accuracy wise, but it takes a high quality lock to have reliable ignition on a flint gun, and that is missing on a Pedersoli. From my perspective, I don't like Pedersoli guns, but that's me.

Roundball rifling is typically 1 in 66. Thompson Center Hawkins and Renegades were 1 in 48", a compromise twist to allow use of roundball or conicals. A 1 in 24 is going to be purely a conical slug gun. Nothing wrong with that but it might not be much fun to shoot.

A double rifle is going to be heavy to tote. They were made for African dangerous game at close distances. With an African native to carry it for the hunter on safari, the hunters didn't care so much about the weight.
Traditionally they had only one rear sight and they were "regulated," meaning the barrels were aligned such that they both had the same POI at a specific single distance.

My personal recommendation, since you obviously are not hung up on pure tradition, would be to find a used T/C Hawken or Renegade in .50 or .54 caliber. They are available in flint or percussion ignition for under $500 on GunBroker or other online sites and probably for less locally if you shop around. The T/Cs were high quality with Green Mtn barrels, good adjustable sights, and hooked breach for ease of cleaning. Weight is around 8 lbs. The percussion rifles can use Pyrodex or any of the other black powder substitutes and will shoot conicals or roundballs. I can't speak to the T/C flintlocks, the one I had years ago was percussion and that is what I would recommend. A .54 T/C with a conical will hammer an elk at the distance you can make an ethical shot with iron sights and either conical or patched roundball will work fine for deer.

Good hunting.