Patagonia (please read)

[ljalberta]

Yvon Chouinard is not a friend to anyone that hunts or desires to own a gun ...

Someone better inform Kenton Carruth, Ryan Callaghan and the First Lite/Meateater crew.

 

[88man]

Someone better inform Kenton Carruth, Ryan Callaghan and the First Lite/Meateater crew.

If he's paying they gotta go where the money is as its business for those guys.

 

[Dexter Grayson]

The end is near boys, gotta look good when it happens!

 

[BackcountryBloodline]

If he's paying they gotta go where the money is as its business for those guys.

Sucks to hear so much talk about being pro-nuance, keeping public lands in public hands etc. then see them working through proxy with people who are not only pulling this stunt but having chunks of land (with some of the highest bear populations) in BC that were once public now restricted to ALL bear hunting because of their own misguided personal views. I feel like in general Steve is a great ambassador of hunting, if a non hunter finds out I hunt the most common response seems to be "do you watch meateater? I love that show!" I know he's aware of the situation in BC right now but not sure if he specifically knows about this, will reach out to the meateater team and hope that the message gets through but I'm not holding my breath...as positive of an ambassador as he is he's become a businessman and most business savvy people don't rock the boat with the ones that pay their bills. Does bring into question how this pertains to first lite then although that may really be reaching, I probably won't be burning my uncompahgre any time soon.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I think guys who shoot a deer every fall but "would never shoot a wolf because they only kill what they eat" do more harm to our cause than good, not sure I would really refer to them as hunters although I try to be as open to as many forms of hunting and different perspectives as possible. In my opinion if he was a true conservationist he would personally visit the Vancouver location and educate some of these hypocritical idiots on a true nuanced balance and how that's achieved as well as the fact that there has never been a time in human history when any of those species weren't managed in BC. We're already seeing our carbibou numbers plummet to extrapation levels and moose won't be far behind, any hunter worth his salt would see the issue in supporting that continued decline in the name of appeasing the vocal minority.

Seems like you're just making it a personal thing now and applying your own definitions to suite your point. Its been pointed out that The guy is a hunter, but you are saying he's not a real hunter. No offense but thats absurd.

They have already pointed out that its a franchise decision and the founder is a hunter. I'm not even defending Patagonia so buy whatever you want, its your money but to apply your own definitions of what constitutes a hunter is pretty strange.

 

[BackcountryBloodline]

Seems like you're just making it a personal thing now and applying your own definitions to suite your point. Its been pointed out that The guy is a hunter, but you are saying he's not a real hunter. No offense but thats absurd.

They have already pointed out that its a franchise decision and the founder is a hunter. I'm not even defending Patagonia so buy whatever you want, its your money but to apply your own definitions of what constitutes a hunter is pretty strange.

Not sure where people get the idea I'm saying he's not a "real" hunter from. I thought I clarified my point but as I said I may have worded that poorly, maybe I should have used the buzzword "conservationist." I think the term hunter itself is fairly subjective at this point though. An unlicensed 8 year old with a BB gun might go out at the beginning of the day with the intention of shooting as many crows, squirrels etc as possible. Is he hunting? You bet? Would I call him a hunter? Maybe. Maybe not. I wouldn't really refer to the idiots that bomb down logging roads here, flying around blind corners doing 50, tossing beer cans out the window all over the mountain as hunters either even though they shoot a buck on occasion, sometimes big ones. Where I'm from there's a saying. You can paint houses for 30 years and not be a painter. Suck one c*ck though and you're a c*cksucker for life. Moral of the story, some titles are earned through action, I'm sure there were people arguing semantics back when Commodus was calling himself a warrior as well. Nothing personal about this guy at all, I didn't even know his name before today just knew that the company chose not to take action and that most people would more than likely be severely reprimanded if not fired if they were to host any political events at their workplace, use their companies name and revenue made from that same name to fund political groups especially if I had the wherewithal to know the political platform they stand on is entirely propaganda based and anti hunting. Wear Patagonia or don't, I really don't care, just letting people know the situation here and that it's being stood behind by the corporation itself, not just the franchise.

Edit: I won't bicker semantics anymore. I apologize for my poor choice of words but my point was this. Not that someone has to hunt predators or shoot wolves to be seen as a "real" hunter in my eyes. There are people that have only ever shot deer that are far more accomplished hunters than myself and have forgotten more than I'll ever know about hunting and conservation. There are also guys that shoot a half dozen wolves a year but couldn't tell you for sure that every one of them was within the unit they were legally allowed to hunt them in. I simply meant how serious of a hunter can one really be if they go shoot what THEY want to shoot without any issue but then allow their employees (who they ARE responsible for one way or another) to actively lobby AGAINST legal hunting rights and have them taken away from other hunters...FROM the franchise itself. I can't see how one can give him a pass on that but criticize me for saying people should take more responsibility and stop playing the blame game if they're seeing game numbers declining in their area, I do however see how my comment was taken the wrong way and again apologize for any misunderstanding but stand by what I said.

 

[rob86jeep]

Why do hunters get so upset when somebody else has a different point of view and advocates for a different agenda? I have friends that are very liberal and others that are very conservative, but guess what, they're all still my friends. I have friends that primarily eat wild game, and some that are vegan that get excited every time I come back from hunting and didn't have the opportunity to shoot/kill something. They're still both my friends. If you really cared about who/what companies did with your money after buying things from them, you probably wouldn't be able to spend money again anywhere.

 

[excaliber]

No Patagonia gear for me either. I stick to and support pro hunting brands.

 

[brsnow]

Hopefully at some point a pro-hunting brand will match the quality. I have years of use on Patagonia and it is still in great shape. Not so much with first lite or Sitka. Kuiu has been the best of the hunting group for durability but still a large gap from Patagonia.

 

[BackcountryBloodline]

Why do hunters get so upset when somebody else has a different point of view and advocates for a different agenda? I have friends that are very liberal and others that are very conservative, but guess what, they're all still my friends. I have friends that primarily eat wild game, and some that are vegan that get excited every time I come back from hunting and didn't have the opportunity to shoot/kill something. They're still both my friends. If you really cared about who/what companies did with your money after buying things from them, you probably wouldn't be able to spend money again anywhere.

I could also ask why the fine folks down at the Vancouver Patagonia get so upset about wildlife management taking place in northern BC when they spend 98% of their time in the downtown core aside from their annual 2 day camping trip at a provincial campsite with 8-10 other granola crunchers. The difference is I'm not trying to make it illegal for them to sell their overpriced clothing and spread falsehoods about the need for predator management, I just don't want them trying to strip rights away from me and my son. I have friends of all beliefs and view points as well, as much as we may disagree they don't want to see my rights taken away and I don't want to see theirs taken away either. Live and let live was fine when it was just some over-opinionated, under-educated "environmentalists" spreading propaganda and using buzzwords like "trophy hunting" to sour peoples opinions of a legal hunt. Once I started seeing my own rights actually being stripped away I decided I can't just continue to sit by and silently roll my eyes when I see others that should have an interest in preserving our rights supporting a company that's fighting to have them taken away. There are plenty of companies that definitely don't support hunting that I could care less if someone supports Everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how misguided it it. It's when people take it upon themselves to try and have my "point of view" and activities I share annually with my son illegal that I take issue. If it was the local Patagonia successfully having gun rights repealed in your home state I think the tune would be very different.

On a side note, I realized Rinella recently had this guy on the podcast but it was right in the thick of archery season and I seemed to have missed it. After listening I have even less respect for this guy, I expect this shit from some city dwelling granola crunchers that grew up on disney movies and think wild animals die of old age with their family surrounding them crying. Someone with his background should certainly know better. He also mentioned his son got bored of bowhunting pigs so he started chasing them into the ocean to spear them, then when that got old he switched to just stabbing them with knives. Wonder how his son feels about his old man standing beside attacks on legal hunting of overpopulated species on the basis that some people might not necessarily agree with it?

 

[Billinsd]

It's when people take it upon themselves to try and have my "point of view" and activities I share annually with my son illegal that I take issue.

I take issue with those who want to greatly restrict and/or outlaw activities that don't hurt anyone. That's listening to my mind over my emotions, most of the time. I'm a logical, critical thinker. Sometimes too much so. Us humans are complicated. I believe we are hard wired, for fight, flight, freeze, and survival. We have always needed others to survive. People want to fit in, because hundreds and hundreds of years ago not fitting in could mean starving. Our caveman minds have not evolved to match our modern life, I believe. In fact I believe our brain has different stages, areas, centers going from extremely primitive to far advanced that control different things. We have to train ourselves to be logical, just like we do to be civilized. People want to control other people and situations to fit in and feel comfortable. It's seemingly impossible to change that anytime soon. It doesn't mean to give up, however understanding this gives me solace.

 

[rob86jeep]

I could also ask why the fine folks down at the Vancouver Patagonia get so upset about wildlife management taking place in northern BC when they spend 98% of their time in the downtown core aside from their annual 2 day camping trip at a provincial campsite with 8-10 other granola crunchers. The difference is I'm not trying to make it illegal for them to sell their overpriced clothing and spread falsehoods about the need for predator management, I just don't want them trying to strip rights away from me and my son. I have friends of all beliefs and view points as well, as much as we may disagree they don't want to see my rights taken away and I don't want to see theirs taken away either. Live and let live was fine when it was just some over-opinionated, under-educated "environmentalists" spreading propaganda and using buzzwords like "trophy hunting" to sour peoples opinions of a legal hunt. Once I started seeing my own rights actually being stripped away I decided I can't just continue to sit by and silently roll my eyes when I see others that should have an interest in preserving our rights supporting a company that's fighting to have them taken away. There are plenty of companies that definitely don't support hunting that I could care less if someone supports Everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how misguided it it. It's when people take it upon themselves to try and have my "point of view" and activities I share annually with my son illegal that I take issue. If it was the local Patagonia successfully having gun rights repealed in your home state I think the tune would be very different.

On a side note, I realized Rinella recently had this guy on the podcast but it was right in the thick of archery season and I seemed to have missed it. After listening I have even less respect for this guy, I expect this shit from some city dwelling granola crunchers that grew up on disney movies and think wild animals die of old age with their family surrounding them crying. Someone with his background should certainly know better. He also mentioned his son got bored of bowhunting pigs so he started chasing them into the ocean to spear them, then when that got old he switched to just stabbing them with knives. Wonder how his son feels about his old man standing beside attacks on legal hunting of overpopulated species on the basis that some people might not necessarily agree with it?

While I do partly agree and sympathize with you, I think it's more important to voice our opinions and put pressure on the policy makers, not individuals/companies which have a difference of opinion on how they think wildlife should be handled. It is an important issue, but if not for the policy makers then nothing will change. You not purchasing from a company will have an insignificant impact on your goals, but you reaching out to your representatives/political figures (whoever they are) can actually have an impact.

 

[Whaledriver]

Here is the deal. I am a selfish bastard. When it comes to clothing I could give a damn on what a company does politically. Look at Steve Rinella. Good dude that sold out to left wingers. I look for the best clothes that keep me from running to the truck cold, wet and tired. The patty r1, and nanopuff have helped keep me in the game long enough to be blood on them. I find a weird satisfaction to that. Side note, years ago politics used to stay out of sports, including hunting. It still does if you allow it. Truth is most hunting brands are behind the curve technology wise. That being said, I own a few FL and Kuiu pieces. I try to buy the best and keep the static noise bullshit out of my decision.

 

[BackcountryBloodline]

While I do partly agree and sympathize with you, I think it's more important to voice our opinions and put pressure on the policy makers, not individuals/companies which have a difference of opinion on how they think wildlife should be handled. It is an important issue, but if not for the policy makers then nothing will change. You not purchasing from a company will have an insignificant impact on your goals, but you reaching out to your representatives/political figures (whoever they are) can actually have an impact.

Yes, if any of you are BC residents I highly encourage you to set up a meeting with your MLA, bring them some bear pepperoni and let them know how this effects you. I assumed most people on here are not BC residents though, I've already had this conversation with plenty of BC residents that do have a bit (albeit a very small bit) of sway when it comes to local policy makers, however I just thought I would put this out there for people who may recognize the slippery slope it creates and want to help out in some small way despite not being a BC resident and being unable to reach out to our MLAs in any meaningful way. I'm quite confident most emails are simply fielded by interns but it is possible to set up a meeting with an MLA. If any of you care enough to fly out here and do so please let me know and I'll buy you a beer while you're here, if not then voting with your dollar is the next best thing in my opinion. As far as I know the WDL never directly put any pressure on policy makers, they simply put out propaganda and used misleading words to sway public opinion and conducted an international survey where approximately 4000 people, apparently predominantly from Europe, said they "don't support the trophy hunting of grizzly bears in BC." I could present a survey with 15,000 signatures, a concise explanation of why that wording was essentially a strawman, plenty of regional biologists that agree that banning the hunt was horrible for our wildlife populations and still not get the hunt back. They aren't concerned with resident opinions or the best interests of wildlife, they're simply trying to appease a global audience and the target are the urbanites that will tell you wolves are the great species of balance, all bears are endangered in all parts of the world and every fire, dead rat and fallen dead tree is a direct result of man made climate change but haven't spent a day in the backcountry in their life...most of the people with strong opinions on this have zero knowledge of wildlife and predator prey relationships aside from what David Attenborough told them yet they somehow have more influence on our wildlife management than the biologists who are paid to make those decisions. I'm currently working on a short film about the historical importance of bear hunting and the modern day necessity for it in an attempt to help change public perception, this post was just one of many actions I've taken and probably one of the most passive. I'm not looking for sympathy at all just letting people know in case they care about what their dollar is voting for, if not that's entirely their choice and all the power to them regardless of what keeps them warm and dry.

Here is the deal. I am a selfish bastard. When it comes to clothing I could give a damn on what a company does politically. Look at Steve Rinella. Good dude that sold out to left wingers. I look for the best clothes that keep me from running to the truck cold, wet and tired. The patty r1, and nanopuff have helped keep me in the game long enough to be blood on them. I find a weird satisfaction to that. Side note, years ago politics used to stay out of sports, including hunting. It still does if you allow it. Truth is most hunting brands are behind the curve technology wise. That being said, I own a few FL and Kuiu pieces. I try to buy the best and keep the static noise bullshit out of my decision.

To be honest my own interests are one of the last things on my mind pertaining to this mess, it's my son's hunting rights and the rights of his children I'm most concerned about because as it stands I really don't see a very positive future for hunting in BC. This is not me simply choosing to take offence at someone's personal point of view or political perspective, what was once a legal hunt and effective form of wildlife management just a few years ago is now illegal and our ungulate population is currently suffering as a result. I could choose not to let that effect me but I think that would essentially either make me a poacher if I continue to hunt griz (and black bear/wolf/bobcat/cougar if they get their way) or a pretty unsuccessful hunter when my favorite hunt is made illegal and all ungulate hunting is either by draw or restricted to (ironically unregulated) natives. If the patty gear keeps you warm and dry that's awesome, that's half the battle out there and they already have your money so wear it until it's more holes than jacket...I know they won't be turning their pockets out at the end of this season on account of me, I do believe boycotts are effective when people stick by their guns but I'm old fashioned like that, I don't think many other people will spend very long in that late fall downpour in cotton mossy oak before they're running to the Patagonia store and turning in their bear tag. Can anyone please elaborate on the connection between Patagonia and Rinella? I listened to the podcast trying to get some more info but they never mentioned how they're connected in any way. Appreciate everyone taking the time to take this in, hopefully the people in charge of managing wildlife in your areas have better foresight and actually listen to the ones being paid to determine how that's done.

 

[ljalberta]

The connection between Rinella, Carruth (First Lite founder) and Callaghan and Patagonia was meant to point out how you can in fact be friends with people you disagree with, contrary to some people's notion. For instance, the organizations have worked together on numerous occasions in advocating for the protection of public lands.

 

[BackcountryBloodline]

The connection between Rinella, Carruth (First Lite founder) and Callaghan and Patagonia was meant to point out how you can in fact be friends with people you disagree with, contrary to some people's notion. For instance, the organizations have worked together on numerous occasions in advocating for the protection of public lands.

Gotcha. I'll go stand side by side and help these WDL guys pick up trash any day if they're really concerned about defending wildlife, not so sure they're up for coming out with me and managing predator populations although that's perfectly fine as long as they're not working against mine and my sons rights to do so. Was more referring to the comment on Rinella "selling out to left wingers" though, not the first time I've heard that but also not familiar with the specifics.

 

[isItFallYet]

"selling out to left wingers"

I'm interested too.

 

[ljalberta]

I'd guess that posted is referring to the purchase of a controlling stake in Meateater by the Chernin Group. There's some older threads on that, and Rinella has personally posted an audio response to the criticism that is worth listening to as well.

 

[MTForester]

I like what I have seen/heard from Chouinard, and while I don't agree with him on every issue, I do on quite a few. Patagonia has done more for public lands and wild places than most companies have.

I have lots of friends that don't hunt and have different viewpoints than me. Having constructive conversations with these people is much more productive than internet ranting.
Besides that, Patagonia makes some good stuff...

 

[jfs82]

Yes. Every native american group in north america had deadfall traps on every local riverbank. They also generally attacked, tortured and killed human hunting parties caught in their territories, some ate them, some didn't. Coyotes, wolves and bears were seen as direct competition, meat and fur was seen as an awesome byproduct of managing them, griz claws and wolf teeth were seen as a universal status symbol not just because they were hard to acquire but also what the acquisition stood for. They have 24/7/365 access to our wildlife in BC, no tags, no bag limits, no closed seasons, no game laws. Cows and calves are the primary target. When asked about predator hunting the response is generally "I don't hunt bears or wolves, cultural teachings." There is zero evidence that any native tribes here would forego predator management because of any traditional beliefs and significant evidence to the contrary. I'm working on a short film on bear hunting and have looked into this pretty extensively, the primitive bear hunting methods are incredibly interesting if you dive down that rabbit hole. Glad we're getting to be on the same page, I may have worded that poorly but didn't mean to step on any toes as I know that's a commonly held point of view, just always trying to open as many eyes to the bigger picture as possible!

Mostly true, most Blackfoot nations didnt hunt grizzly (or fish,) at least not to eat (unsure if they hunted for medecine at all)