Parents, let's discuss the ethics of our kids' first kills...

[Blowdowner]

With the amount you’re thinking about it and the age of your kids, there’s only one way to go - use bait and orchestrate the entire hunt. By that I mean if you see a gigantic buck that might survive a bad shot just sneeze real loud before your kid sees it. That should be enough to scare him away but not ruin the whole spot. Eventually a smaller deer will come by. Your kids will have no idea just like you at their age.

Use cameras and don’t bring them to the pile the bucks are visiting.

 

[Pony Soldier]

My first deer was a fawn. It was just closer and looked bigger. My daugter's first deer was a forky. I sent her after a nice 30" buck bedded on a bench and she took what was handy when she walked into a herd of 50. Neither of my kids were raised on the theory of selectivety. As primary meat hunters, their selectivity came with age and experience. The deer got bigger as they got older and got pickier.

I taught ethics, woodsmanship, environment, and geology among other things. The kids are a sponge at that age. I worked at sharing my knowledge with my kids whether they asked or not. It wasn't until they were in their twenties that I found how much they had learned.

As a western hunter, I never learned to hunt deer. We just shot them. We hunted elk. The incentive for hunting was food. Nearly every meal contained wild meat. I grew up with -" Beef is for selling-- Elk is for eating". Bragging rights provided incentive until you had to eat a 10-12 year old bull elk. After that younger meat was encouraged.

I can't say say I am normal but my kids still hunt with me in their 40's. One comes from Minnesota to do it.

Your job as a parent is to teach and share your life with your family.

 

[Smallie]

I grew up shooting deer in South Texas over bait and feeders. My Dad and uncle explained the importance of managing deer herds and getting ethical shots and bait was the best way to do both. 7 years old shooting a .223 needed shots to be around 50 yards. First buck was a nasty basket rack 8 pointer and I was ecstatic. Grew up a meat hunter and shot the first thing with antlers or big doe that offered me a shot well until I was in college and was happy.

Eventually got into trying to shoot big bucks with my bow and grew from there. Don’t overthink things and know any deer at that age is a trophy and sets the hook of getting into the sport. Otherwise chasing big antlers will burn kids out. Too much sitting and not enough shooting especially when you might only have a couple good encounters a year with big mature bucks. Just the experience of pulling the trigger or letting an arrow fly at live animals and learning how to blood trail and clean animals is so valuable in itself. I could do all of these things on my own before I was even in high school

 

[BFR]

Gonna stick my 2c. in, trying to explain adult thoughts to a young kid is difficult at best. Do, be, act the things you want to convey, it’s easier on dad and believe me they will get it all. As for baiting, I’ve never done it but it’s just another way to hunt IMO, you’re choice. Now, what to shoot, I told my daughters and all 4 grandkids the same thing, “if it’s legal and you want to shoot, shoot, but make it clean, if you want to wait be prepared to go home with your tag.” They’ve all been successful be it doe, spike or 4x4 buck, even the granddaughter who decided not to shoot the 3x2 buck in her sights. They all hunt every year even if it’s just as a spotter, and they now handle the after the shot parts.

 

[JjamesIII]

First off, let me say that I understand there will be many subjective outlooks on this subject driven by personal experiences. That's exactly what I'm looking for, but instead of just stating your opinion, please provide some context for your answer. I feel forums are good platforms for long-form discussions so please dive as deep into conversation as you'd like while remaining respectful.

This will undoubtedly be seen as silly to some but it's something I've been considering as a parent and is very much going to be a parenting as well as a hunting discussion.

For example, I grew up hunting whitetails by myself in Indiana, which is a no bait state. My father provided the vital role of teaching me about building arrows and playing around with our equipment, but when it came to the pursuit and taking of deer, I was on my own to learn tactics. He hunted quite a bit and I can remember sitting in a stand with him many times as a kid. He doesn't have the passion for deer hunting like I do but still hunts on occassion.

I killed the first deer that gave me a chance at 13 with a bow. I have never picked up a gun in pursuit of a whitetail, it's been all bow for me since the beginning. It was a button buck and I heart shot him. There wasn't a soul on this earth that could have convinced me that it was a small deer, I was proud and hooked on bowhunting from then on.

Nearly 22 years later, I now own my own farm in Ohio, a state in which we can hunt over bait. I've never been big on baiting and don't utilize the tactic. This is partially due to the fact that we weren't able to in Indiana but more so due to the fact that I find the pursuit of the animal an enjoyable part of the process and don't consider sitting over a bait pile much of a pursuit.

I have 3 boys with 6 being the oldest, and want to instill in them a love for hunting. That said, I'd love for them to get hooked on bowhunting mainly because it's my passion that I'd love to enjoy with them in the future but don't want to curb their enthusiasm for the hunt by limiting them to any one piece of equipment. We now have a crossbow that both my oldest son and my wife practice with and use to hunt.

Naturally, over the last few years as my oldest son who's 6 has been accompanying me in the woods. We watch select hunting shows together and he shoots his kids bow with me as well as the crossbow as we prepare for season. The subject of his first deer has come up numerous times and I always lean towards him shooting the first deer that gives him a chance. Naturally he wants to shoot a "big buck" and nothing else. That said, I feel weary of allowing that first deer to be a large buck, or even a buck for that matter.

It's hard for me to understand why I feel that way, and that is where I'm looking for input.

I feel like it's in large part because it's how I began and naturally want my kids to follow my footsteps. I think that's natural for any parent. As the years went by I shot larger, more mature animals as I learned how to hunt and became more comfortable being around animals in the woods. It helped drive me to pursue larger deer but I had a hard time passing up opportunities at quality animals that would provide meat for our table. I don't hunt for the meat but at the same time if I didn't get meat from the hunt I would hang it up.

I feel like I want to provide my kids with a foundation similar to mine to enjoy a quality hunting experience as they grow up. This is where subjectivity comes in. They're obviously not mature enough to create their own experiences at their ages so it's up to me to pave the way for them, but nothing guarantees they will get out of it what I'm wanting them to.

I could go against my gut and put a blind over bait piles providing them the best possible chance of killing any deer. However, I fear the consequences of unintended lessons they may gain from it when it comes to gratification and other feelings.

I could do what I want, immersing them in the pursuit that I enjoy so much and observe how they react in an attempt to keep them on a path that gives them just enough to keep them interested. This may involve making them pass deer I that I don't feel fit the narrative of what I'm trying to teach them. I want them to learn the value of hard work and preparation and how it leads to success.

I feel I need to end up somewhere in the middle and start there.

To play my own devils advocate here, this could also stem from the fact that for the last 21years, hunting has been something I have done my way and have kept to myself. Admittedly, it's been a difficult thing for me to throttle back my love of the pursuit and I've struggled with becoming more selfless and less selfish when it comes to this time of year. This has become very evident to me as my wife and I banter over who gets to hunt and who gets to stay home with the kids.

Now, please don't take any of this as me crapping on your tactics. If you hunt over bait with a rifle, good on you. I'm more interesting in observations that could help me expand my thinking from those further along in parenthood than where my wife and I are and what their experiences have taught them with kids. Thanks for reading.

My A.D.D kicked in after the fifth paragraph, but I think you’re overthinking it. One thing I see that bothers me, is guy’s tend to force hunting on extremely young kids. Often, the child isn’t even remotely aware of the fact that they are ending the life of another animal. They can barely keep the gun/crossbow up on the rest and blast away. Looking back with a confused expression “did I get him pa?”. As dad’s spazzing out at with his kid’s first kill. The kid’s just trying to make their dad proud, no further thought is in his mind.
Whatever age you feel is appropriate where your kid is mature enough to genuinely comprehend what he’s about to do. I waited for my kids to get old enough and I explained why we do what we do -and left it up to them to tell me when they were comfortable. They joined me on many hunts and helped with the processing and ultimately consuming what we worked hard to get. I also showed them the ugly side of hunts when you need to get your hands dirty, humanly dispatching wounded birds/game. Their first time killing has to “take-backs” and I never wanted them to regret their decision. There’s no set timeline and every child will emotionally mature at different rates. One of my kids is comfortable with killing fish, at the drop of a hat, but nothing else- there moral compass points in a slightly different direction. I’m cool with that.

 

[Jstumbaugh]

My kids have hunted with me since they were very young and have been part of many of my harvests. My son was able to harvest his first this year, a button buck. I was ecstatic. Couldn't have been happier. We do manage our land as much as possible but the kids get free reign. My daughter has yet to shoot one but she is more selective. She passed up a spike and many opportunities at does this year. I do want to instill in her the comfort in shooting mature animals but not the "need" to do so so early on in her hunting. I want them both to get experience in the moment and build their experience level to help control their emotions in the moment. The part that I am concerned with is that I was taught to hunt public land with competition and pressured deer. I am sure that helped build my skillset for hunting and I like to think I am an above average hunter. Toot toot. My kids haven't experienced that with the private opportunities we have now. Maybe when they have some more experience we will revert back to public hunting a bit and increase the challenge to hone their skills. Either way, anytime you can spend in the woods with your kids is a blessing and has been the best part of my hunting career.

 

[Rokbar]

My 13 year old son killed his first bear last Saturday. Probably weighed a whole 80-85lbs. Perfectly legal in NC. Where we had to go to the tree it would have made most grown men cry. He led the dogs at daylight in a brutal wind and cold until we cast the dogs loose. A couple hours later, wading the river and up the side of the mountain to where the dogs were treed, he made a great kill shot. Couldn't have been more proud of him. I think with todays technology (clothing, firearms, electronics, baiting laws) just teach your kids to be ethical, respectful of their hunt, and enjoy time in the outdoors!

 

[Mikido]

My issue is that I live in a liberal urban environment. My son is 3. I have to be very careful with the words I use, in fear of him repeating it at school and police showing up to my door. He knows that I “go” into the mountains, “looking” for elk, deer,
Turkey and bring them home to “hang out” in the backyard. He watches the butchering process and a few days later has “steaky” for dinner.

I really struggle with how/when I’ll introduce him to firearms and the taking of life. Any tips?

 

[Rokbar]

My issue is that I live in a liberal urban environment. My son is 3. I have to be very careful with the words I use, in fear of him repeating it at school and police showing up to my door. He knows that I “go” into the mountains, “looking” for elk, deer,
Turkey and bring them home to “hang out” in the backyard. He watches the butchering process and a few days later has “steaky” for dinner.

I really struggle with how/when I’ll introduce him to firearms and the taking of life. Any tips?

Just obey all laws, be ethical, and hunt away. Allow no criticism of how you legally hunt or take game!

 

[Pony Soldier]

I'm western and rural but I'm helping with my grandkids. Start small with a bb gun and develop handling skills - accuracy and safety. As they get big enough move to a 22 or 17. Once they have mastered the safety and skills move onto gophers. Really focus on not only the gopher but what is on the other side - stock, houses, people, etc. Keep pushing the safety aspects and the responsibility of the shooter.

From there I moved to grouse and rabbits. By then you should be able to turn them loose or know if you can. They need to hone their woods skills. These years also develop the bond between you and your kids that should last until you tip over.

Big game hunting will come naturally and they should have experienced being with you as you killed a few and all the things that go with it. The biggest part of all of this is sharing your life with your kids. If you do it right they will in turn share their life with you as they get older. Your best buddy and partner should be your kids (and wife).

 

[Will_m]

My issue is that I live in a liberal urban environment. My son is 3. I have to be very careful with the words I use, in fear of him repeating it at school and police showing up to my door. He knows that I “go” into the mountains, “looking” for elk, deer,
Turkey and bring them home to “hang out” in the backyard. He watches the butchering process and a few days later has “steaky” for dinner.

I really struggle with how/when I’ll introduce him to firearms and the taking of life. Any tips?

Don’t set the example that makes him apologize or hide something without at least a legal or moral basis.

 

[KM5019]

First off, let me say that I understand there will be many subjective outlooks on this subject driven by personal experiences. That's exactly what I'm looking for, but instead of just stating your opinion, please provide some context for your answer. I feel forums are good platforms for long-form discussions so please dive as deep into conversation as you'd like while remaining respectful.

This will undoubtedly be seen as silly to some but it's something I've been considering as a parent and is very much going to be a parenting as well as a hunting discussion.

For example, I grew up hunting whitetails by myself in Indiana, which is a no bait state. My father provided the vital role of teaching me about building arrows and playing around with our equipment, but when it came to the pursuit and taking of deer, I was on my own to learn tactics. He hunted quite a bit and I can remember sitting in a stand with him many times as a kid. He doesn't have the passion for deer hunting like I do but still hunts on occassion.

I killed the first deer that gave me a chance at 13 with a bow. I have never picked up a gun in pursuit of a whitetail, it's been all bow for me since the beginning. It was a button buck and I heart shot him. There wasn't a soul on this earth that could have convinced me that it was a small deer, I was proud and hooked on bowhunting from then on.

Nearly 22 years later, I now own my own farm in Ohio, a state in which we can hunt over bait. I've never been big on baiting and don't utilize the tactic. This is partially due to the fact that we weren't able to in Indiana but more so due to the fact that I find the pursuit of the animal an enjoyable part of the process and don't consider sitting over a bait pile much of a pursuit.

I have 3 boys with 6 being the oldest, and want to instill in them a love for hunting. That said, I'd love for them to get hooked on bowhunting mainly because it's my passion that I'd love to enjoy with them in the future but don't want to curb their enthusiasm for the hunt by limiting them to any one piece of equipment. We now have a crossbow that both my oldest son and my wife practice with and use to hunt.

Naturally, over the last few years as my oldest son who's 6 has been accompanying me in the woods. We watch select hunting shows together and he shoots his kids bow with me as well as the crossbow as we prepare for season. The subject of his first deer has come up numerous times and I always lean towards him shooting the first deer that gives him a chance. Naturally he wants to shoot a "big buck" and nothing else. That said, I feel weary of allowing that first deer to be a large buck, or even a buck for that matter.

It's hard for me to understand why I feel that way, and that is where I'm looking for input.

I feel like it's in large part because it's how I began and naturally want my kids to follow my footsteps. I think that's natural for any parent. As the years went by I shot larger, more mature animals as I learned how to hunt and became more comfortable being around animals in the woods. It helped drive me to pursue larger deer but I had a hard time passing up opportunities at quality animals that would provide meat for our table. I don't hunt for the meat but at the same time if I didn't get meat from the hunt I would hang it up.

I feel like I want to provide my kids with a foundation similar to mine to enjoy a quality hunting experience as they grow up. This is where subjectivity comes in. They're obviously not mature enough to create their own experiences at their ages so it's up to me to pave the way for them, but nothing guarantees they will get out of it what I'm wanting them to.

I could go against my gut and put a blind over bait piles providing them the best possible chance of killing any deer. However, I fear the consequences of unintended lessons they may gain from it when it comes to gratification and other feelings.

I could do what I want, immersing them in the pursuit that I enjoy so much and observe how they react in an attempt to keep them on a path that gives them just enough to keep them interested. This may involve making them pass deer I that I don't feel fit the narrative of what I'm trying to teach them. I want them to learn the value of hard work and preparation and how it leads to success.

I feel I need to end up somewhere in the middle and start there.

To play my own devils advocate here, this could also stem from the fact that for the last 21years, hunting has been something I have done my way and have kept to myself. Admittedly, it's been a difficult thing for me to throttle back my love of the pursuit and I've struggled with becoming more selfless and less selfish when it comes to this time of year. This has become very evident to me as my wife and I banter over who gets to hunt and who gets to stay home with the kids.

Now, please don't take any of this as me crapping on your tactics. If you hunt over bait with a rifle, good on you. I'm more interesting in observations that could help me expand my thinking from those further along in parenthood than where my wife and I are and what their experiences have taught them with kids. Thanks for reading.

My first deer was a nice 8 point and I sure did have a big smile on my face as I ran back to my house to get my dad to help me drag it out.

My sons first deer was a button buck and he too had as big smile on his face, mine was likely bigger.

It’s all about the experience. Have fun and get him to love the sport.

 

[WBrim]

getting kids out, spending time making memories and learning is awesome. It’s great that you are thinking deeply on how to best pass on your values and passions. Parenting is awesome as we get the opportunity to do so, but can have some serious dilemmas at times.
Mostly, I’d focus on keeping it fun and ethical, so they will continue to focus on developing those same questions.
Im getting close to being in the same situation, a couple years left until my boys will be hunting themselves.

 

[KnCaffre]

With a 7yr old son who wants to hunt with me, I have been thinking a lot about this stuff as well. I enjoyed reading through this exchange a great deal.