Paradox: Minimalist Winter Boots + brief reviews

[fwafwow]

I really need to stop looking at the "New Posts" part of RS. I have never worn a minimalist shoe or boot, but given some recent back problems, I'm now thinking of trying them. Since I spend more time in the city and suburbs, for those of you who have been down this path for years, any suggestions on where to start, maybe with a brand that I can try on in person? I'd also like to start with something that is low-key - not a shoe with toes. (Not throwing stones - just thinking of the most realistic way - for me - to dip a toe in this water.)

 

[ElPollo]

@ElPollo I have looked for that myself. I have a pair of Otz boots - foot shaped, zero drop, but not as minimal as Lems for example. However Otz is defunct as a company. I just found some on poshmark and ebay recently so maybe check those places.
One of my pairs of Altra came with a stone guard insole add - a flat thin flexible layer that might help stop sharps from getting through. Maybe there's more like options this out there.

Ledflight,

Thanks for that, especially the stone guard insole thing. It got me thinking about traditional rawhide soled Apache boots as sort of the ultimate desert minimalist foot wear. The soles are made of heavy rawhide and the tab on the toe was intended to protect against cactus and yucca.

File:Apache boots, early 20th century - Bata Shoe Museum - DSC00494.JPG - Wikimedia Commons

commons.m.wikimedia.org

I don’t see my wife wearing something like this but a person could cut an ‘insole’ from a piece of rawhide to go under their normal insoles or just to go inside of minimalist footgear to stop punctures.

 

[ElPollo]

I really need to stop looking at the "New Posts" part of RS. I have never worn a minimalist shoe or boot, but given some recent back problems, I'm now thinking of trying them. Since I spend more time in the city and suburbs, for those of you who have been down this path for years, any suggestions on where to start, maybe with a brand that I can try on in person? I'd also like to start with something that is low-key - not a shoe with toes. (Not throwing stones - just thinking of the most realistic way - for me - to dip a toe in this water.)

My wife swears that wearing normal boots with significant drop makes her hips hurt. Thankfully, I don’t have that problem and wear a pair of Kenetreks daily.

 

[BBob]

Any desert folks out there that have experience with this?

Yes, they (Vivo’s) are a no go in many places down here with the cactus, ocotillo, etc. There are puncture resistant insoles available but I haven’t tried any. A boot fitting shop here used to use very firm high durometer rubber insole spacers they called “iron” that might work too. I haven’t found them anywhere though. Ski boot fitters use a hard flexible material for the same thing that would probably add puncture resistance to the sole. None of these help with walking in the dark and kicking an unseen cactus buried in the thick grass with your toe. BTDT

 

[ElPollo]

Yes, they (Vivo’s) are a no go in many places down here with the cactus, ocotillo, etc. There are puncture resistant insoles available but I haven’t tried any. A boot fitting shop here used to use very firm high durometer rubber insole spacers they called “iron” that might work too. I haven’t found them anywhere though. Ski boot fitters use a hard flexible material for the same thing that would probably add puncture resistance to the sole. None of these help with walking in the dark and kicking an unseen cactus buried in the thick grass with your toe. BTDT

Yeah, I knew a guy working on a pronghorn project back in the day that was hand capturing fawns at night to put on radio tracking equipment. He kicked an agave at a dead run in the dark, and even his White’s Smokejumpers didn’t stop it from impaling his big toe on one of the leaves. You can’t stop everything and you have to use your brain, but big rubber rands sure are nice for protecting your feet.

 

[Formidilosus]

I actually came to this thread for my wife who has been looking for zero drop hiking boots. The whole minimalist thing does not work so hot in angry Texas mesquite country or the Sonoran desert with jumping cholla. Where she works everything is covered in 2-3” spines or hot black rock. Even the Altras and the other non-minimalist options available do not provide sufficient foot protection to keep the spines from going through the sole. Anyone have thoughts on this? Seems there is a at least a small market out there for tougher, zero-drop, non-minimalist hiking boots. Any desert folks out there that have experience with this?

I had to deal with that exact problem. I was using Lems Boulder boots because the leather was good at keeping thorns and cactus out of my toes, but one day after removing three thorns that had punctured the Lems soles in less than a hundred yards leaving my socks a bloody mess, I took them to get a real sole put on them-




It worked to stop the thorns from puncturing the feet, but the real answer are shoes made for that environment

Courtney Selous boots.




Thick Cape buffalo hide for the wear areas, impala hide in the flex areas, and a tire tread for a sole. I have not had anything puncture these, including trying. They are not true barefoot shoes, but they are minimalist in that there is no arch support and only a strip of leather over the flat rubber sole inside.



The Vivo Tracker ESC has been better than one would think for punctures- I haven’t gotten any yet, though I haven’t used them a ton where big thorns are, but cactus doesn’t hurt them.



If barefoot, absolute lightweight minimalist is the only option, the Lems with a new sole work well. However, the Courtney’s are the shoes if big thorns and big cactus are an issue. If just standard cactus and thorns are the problem, the Trackers do well.

 

[Formidilosus]

Since I spend more time in the city and suburbs, for those of you who have been down this path for years, any suggestions on where to start, maybe with a brand that I can try on in person? I'd also like to start with something that is low-key - not a shoe with toes. (Not throwing stones - just thinking of the most realistic way - for me - to dip a toe in this water.)

I generally get people to start with Inov-8 shoes. They kind of have a system where you can start with only a little more minimalist then normal shoes, and then work your way down to zero drop, very minimal shoes. It takes about 2 years give or take depending on how weak one’s feet are, to go from supportive boot to minimal shoes for packing if doing it gradually.

 

[BBob]

I can tell you from experience that Vivo Trackers will definitely not stop some of the heavy thorned prickly pear spines from impaling your toes if you inadvertently decide to kick one. BTDT

 

[texag10]

I'm really liking my trackers, but since I only bought them this summer, my Lowa Tibets will still be in the truck in case of a packout. I also get a bit of a hot spot on the inside of my right ankle from the seam between the leather and rubbery part on the tracker. That's been with thinner socks though. They are worlds better from a temperature regulation standpoint than any membrane based boots I've had, and do well in wet grass even when they're pretty scuffed up. Figured they'd leak through once the wax has worn, but no issues yet.

Question for anyone using trackers or a similar boot with no instep arch, what are you doing for gaiters? I have kuiu gaiters that I've used a lot, but figure the strap might get pretty jacked up if it's not up off the ground like it is with traditional boots.

 

[yfarm]

For the desert minimalist boot seeker. Russell PH boots with turtleskin insoles or if you wish lined with Turtleskin. Be aware if you go full lined, the breakin period is longer. These boots are designed around thorns found in Africa much like the Courteney. You can buy a pr of turtleskin insoles from Russell. I wear Russell Featherweight or Turkey boots with a flat Huez sole, has maybe a 1/4” of heel lift, allow good ground feel. Combine with a cordura chap that runs from hip to just below the knee and the cactus spines stay out of my hide. The short chap allows for near normal mobility. I made mine but you can buy some Mules or Dans and cut them off.

 

[ElPollo]

Thanks all. Good stuff to consider.

 

[Formidilosus]

Question for anyone using trackers or a similar boot with no instep arch, what are you doing for gaiters? I have kuiu gaiters that I've used a lot, but figure the strap might get pretty jacked up if it's not up off the ground like it is with traditional boots.

I/we use Fjallraven and Stone Glacier gaiters have have had no issue with the Trackers. Some gaiters wear out quickly, and those might be an issue eventually.

 

[ledflight]

FYI Xero is having a sale if someone wanted to try some of their minimal winter boots out.

Boots - Men - Xero Shoes

xeroshoes.com

 

[Marmots]

I really need to stop looking at the "New Posts" part of RS. I have never worn a minimalist shoe or boot, but given some recent back problems, I'm now thinking of trying them. Since I spend more time in the city and suburbs, for those of you who have been down this path for years, any suggestions on where to start, maybe with a brand that I can try on in person? I'd also like to start with something that is low-key - not a shoe with toes. (Not throwing stones - just thinking of the most realistic way - for me - to dip a toe in this water.)

I generally get people to start with Inov-8 shoes. They kind of have a system where you can start with only a little more minimalist then normal shoes, and then work your way down to zero drop, very minimal shoes. It takes about 2 years give or take depending on how weak one’s feet are, to go from supportive boot to minimal shoes for packing if doing it gradually.

+1 on Inov8 shoes as a gateway to minimalist footwear.

Seven years ago I tore my PTT and lost a spring ligament from overuse. I never got the recommended ankle surgery or even any recovery period because covering lots of miles with a heavy pack is a necessary part of my job.

I got in the habit of wearing stiff zamerberlan vioz boots because I needed a boot to basically perform the function of a cast. My ankle stabilized but never recovered. MRIs still showed the tendons in my foot were the same all sorts of messed up as they were right after the injury.

Wearing stiff zamberlan vioz boots 12 hours a day made my ankles get weaker. I started rolling my ankles often enough to get nervous I was doing more soft tissue damage. I chased ankle support like an addict progressing into harder drugs. It got to the point where I was wearing shin-high sheep hunting boots on dates and to the grocery store. When I wore out a pair of $450 981s I realized this couldn't get any stupider. I decided I would make a hail Mary attempt to try minimalist shoes and get surgery if that didn't work out.

The whole point of that diary entry was to say my feet and ankles were much more coddled and are much more susceptible to injury than the next guy's, but even I've had great luck with Inov8 shoes. The Inov8 roclite 345s are a great start. The ankles feel as wide-open comfortable as unlaced skateboard shoes, but have a hard stop that makes it impossible to perform an inversion sprain. It's like bumper bowling.

In the last year I spent wearing Inov8s,, my ankles recovered faster than I had hoped. I recently hiked 70 miles through the throrofare with a 50 lb pack, and my bad ankle feels better than it used to after a half day of grocery shopping.