pains of the terrible 2's

[kpk]

I'm not even sure where to go with this other than to vent and ask for advice from like minded people. Both my wife and my family have managed to be quite successful in life due to being determined and driven. I knew when my now 2.5 year old was 1 - that she had received a double dose.

Most days she's very sweet, very caring, very smart, wants to help, and listens well. Then we have stretches like we have the last couple days. She has been awful - just awful. Doing things that she absolutely knows are wrong, a total disregard of everyone and everything, and a statement of, "I can just do whatever I want". I've heard that more times in the last couple days than I can count. Her current level of determination far outweighs her reasoning, understanding, or care of consequences.

Typically, I have an endless amount of patience with her. Yesterday my patience ran out and I lost my shhhh several times. Screamed at her a couple times, hauled her in the house over my shoulder kicking and screaming a couple times, and threw her tablet across the yard. I may usually have endless patience with her - but I also have an incredibly short fuse once lit. Yesterday everything boiled over and was just really rough for everybody. I had zero tolerance for her BS yesterday and unfortunately matched it with my own bad behavior.

No, explaining, "getting on her level", timeouts, etc......only seem to embolden her. I'm not really an advocate of spanking.......Her "attitude" will probably serve her well later in life - but right now it's destructive and dangerous.

She's certainly been living up to her "I can just do whatever I want" mentality lately and is stubborn as a bull.
To those with more experience and wisdom than I......Do you have any advice to offer? Any tips/tricks that you found that worked?

 

[GSPHUNTER]

What we always did with our daughter and with the grandkids, when they were younger, is pick your battles. let them win the minor ones and you win the important ones. Not perfect but it worked for us. As they get older, they have to be made to understand, those with the responsibility set the rules.

 

[Mustang06]

I have 2 daughters, now 10 and 6. I went through many similar struggles.

I think it comes down to consequences for actions. What really worked for me was when I started taking away favorite toys or TV time or things like that. Things that they value. When I took them away, I would remind them that their behavior was unacceptable, and they could not, in fact, "do what they want" without consequences. Screaming or back talking...3 days no tablet. Physical outbursts...3 days no TV. Being intentionally mean to their sister...3 days no Legos. things like that. It starts to sink in that positive behavior gets positive results, and negative behavior has consequences.

Some days I felt like a horrible person... I would think "hey, they are just little kids and struggle to express themselves and I'm being too hard on them"...but they are capable of understanding wright and wrong if given the chance. It hit home when I was having a particularly tough day and while picking them up at daycare I had a venting moment about my struggles with their day care teacher. She let me know that we were doing a great job as parents and even though our kids had their tough times, they were really good kids and a joy to have around. Maintaining consistency between how they are treated by both parents is huge also. You guys gotta talk about this in be on the same page.

I does get better...my kids still have their moments, but I can reason with them now and they can understand better. That age 2.5 up to about 4 is really the hardest part I think. Maybe until the teenage years...but I don't wanna sweat that until I get there!

Best of luck. From a guy that has been there recently...make sure you get some time to take care of your own sanity too...like being in the mountains!

 

[Geewhiz]

My opinion, kids need spanked.

 

[Soj51hopeful]

3 kids here ages 10, 8 and 7. We spanked when they disrespected us or especially when they lied. It took a few years but now they know we mean it and I can’t remember the last time they got a whoopin. Now it’s easier to just ground them.

 

[cjdewese]

Kids are the best and if you allow them to they will teach you a lot about your own weaknesses and areas of growth.

For us the biggest thing has been consistency in how we react to the issues we face. If we are consistent in the reactions he gets from us we find that there are a lot less of them. If he sees that we get riled up or that his bad behavior gets him something he wants it continues for a bit until we correct the behavior.

There have definitely been tough times but it's cool when your 4 year old is the most emotionally advanced kid in his age group.

Just remember that "this too shall pass" and try to make the best of it as you go through it. You know what works best for your kid, do that and understand that no matter what you do there will be days where you look at your kid and think "Who the hell is raising you" only to have the next day be one of the best.

For us, once we got to a place where we could help our son understand his emotions and why he is reacting the way he is, we have had a lot less unfavorable reactions. Now that he is almost 4 it is extremely rare that he acts out to try and get his way or is unable to express how he is feeling so that we can help him through whatever it is that he is going through.

 

[Squincher]

You might be longing for these days when she hits about 16.

 

[wapitibob]

Don't sweat it, it only gets worse.

 

[JakeSCH]

right there in the boat with you with a 2.5 and 4.5 year old. Like others have said, set boundaries and be consistent...and just let her know you love her.

Also know it is not a reflection of you...just children going through a learning stage. Exactly what it is, a stage where they learn boundaries.

 

[idelkslayer]

Forget about the "getting on their level" nonsense. You are an authority figure, you are not on the same level. You have to be patient enough to assert your authority until they give in. If you give up first, they know they can win next time too. You have to do it with patience and kindness but you have to win. I am guilty matching bad behavior with bad behavior also, and I can promise you all it does it teach them to react the same way when they don't get what they want. It is difficult to admit, but sometimes, our kids are reflecting back our own behavior.

Also, to echo an earlier statement, pick your battles. Really think about what the principle is that you are training them on and only fight to win the battles that matter. It is difficult to know whether you are enforcing a certain behavior because it follows a consistent principle or if you are enforcing a personal bias or pet peeve.

 

[Brightwhite]

This got long...but its tough and I know exactly what you are talking about and I do not think there is an answer for everything. Each scenario is so different.

I have a daughter thats going on 3 in a couple months and have been living your pain. Sounds like our personalities and household are very similar (very patient until I am not), my wife can have a similar short fuse too.

We discipline, but have been doing so since she (and her brother) were young, so its nothing new we are introducing. Spanking happens only if she really messed up after about 2-3 corrections, so we are not quick to spank, and I have only used it about 3 times so far that I can think of. I know its not a popular choice, but I was raised that way and I respect my parents for how I was raised so that justifies it to me and my wife. That is our end of the line, you are out of fun tickets, game over.

The one thing we ALWAYS do is give the kids about 5-10-15 mins to calm down and stop the waterworks. Then its usually a 1:1 education in a quiet place from the parent that disciplined about what happened, what went wrong, why its not ok, why there were consequences, and most importantly - what will happen if they do it again. Usually that ends with hugs, snuggles, and I love you's and doesn't happen again....but if they make the same mistake again there is no more leeway. We also focus on talking to them about why we want them to be better and how they are growing up and need to learn what is ok and not ok so they can be good boys and girls, stuff like that.

We keep both kids on a very tight leash and they do not get chance after chance after chance to go off the rails. All of our peers with kids that do that have no boundaries and threats just fall on deaf ears and they all have terrible behavior/tantrums.

We also are extremely consistent and I think that is key. Everything from putting away up a toy if you want to get a new one out, to asking permission on certain things, and also demand "Yes please, No thank you, and yes sir/mam and no sir/mam." Praise them and thank them when they do it the way you asked, and correct them when they get a little out of line. Obviously we aren't running a military, so there's a lot of play room, and its not like we snap at them. But even of she gets out of line and says something like, "I want to go outside and play." We would say, "Ok, I would love for you to go outside and play, but is that how you ask and get what you want?" I think little things like that really helps keep the structure.

The other thing I will add that you probably know by now is its all ebs and flows. If something sucks, give it 2 weeks and that problem will end and a new challenge will rear its head. They change so fast.

I guess in summary, I would just say don't be afraid to run a tight ship and keep things strict, just talk to them if you lose it (because it will happen), then explain yourself to help them learn. I often even apologize and say that I am sorry daddy had to yell to get your attention, I will try to have better manners next time...stuff like that so they know everyone had a part in what blew up. You'd be amazed by some of the enlightening conversations I have had with both my kids after disciplining them as early as they could talk and engage with me...kids are resilient and very smart.

 

[Brightwhite]

Forget about the "getting on their level" nonsense. You are an authority figure, you are not on the same level. You have to be patient enough to assert your authority until they give in. If you give up first, they know they can win next time too. You have to do it with patience and kindness but you have to win. I am guilty matching bad behavior with bad behavior also, and I can promise you all it does it teach them to react the same way when they don't get what they want. It is difficult to admit, but sometimes, our kids are reflecting back our own behavior.

Also, to echo an earlier statement, pick your battles. Really think about what the principle is that you are training them on and only fight to win the battles that matter. It is difficult to know whether you are enforcing a certain behavior because it follows a consistent principle or if you are enforcing a personal bias or pet peeve.

Great reply, agree 1000%. Good advice here.

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

Our 4 year old is our strongest willed, of the three of them. Soon to be four of them, and disclaimer, I am by no means the world's best Dad. My wife and I have failed many times.

I started listening to the Love and Logic podcast a while back and there is a lot of good insight, even if the guys are corny. It is a reminder that I have to constantly be smarter than they are, adults who appeal to emotion to form a discussion or even win an argument drive me nuts. I am smarter than my child and I have to teach them to think, learn about consequences. That resource has helped me grow in that area. Lots left to learn, but it has been good for me.

 

[wapitibob]

congrats on no. 4

 

[ODB]

My kid is 15 now. I will say she was easy at 2.5 - and in point of fact, all things considered, she’s still easy to deal with. The challenges have changed (like clean up your damn bathroom), but she is still a good kid.

In my experience, kids act like they can do anything and get anything because they have been all along. My kid’s entire youth was governed in part by what I called “The Policy of the Random ‘No.’”. When she would ask me to do or for something, I would randomly say ‘no’ even though I had no good reason to deny the request. She might ask again, and still I’d say ‘no.’ I never provided an explanation, ever. My wife and friends could not understand why I did this and even said I was being mean at times. It was to break the expectation that she got everything she asked for simply because she asked for it. As an adult, I do not get everything I ask for and have to deal with it - this lesson cannot be imparted too early in my opinion.

You say you threw “her” tablet across the yard. Her tablet? She works? Did she pay for it? Or did you throw your tablet across the yard? Even at 15 my kid knows her phone (a third-hand handmedown that is locked down tighter than ft KNox) is not hers because she doesn’t pay for it. She uses it during the day, it stays in my office after dark. Just saying be careful with what you consider hers and yours.

as far as discipline. Most others have covered it, don’t argue, raise your voice, or freak out. Treat it like math: if you do this, I will do that. And do it. Kids have a lot more tolerance than adults for pissing people off. My kid now honestly challenges me intellectually on issues and I’m not ashamed to admit it. She’s one of the smartest kids I’ve ever met from pure ability standpoint.

And a reality check: you and your wife’s success/ drive means nothing to your kid. Absolutely nothing. The kid has no comprehension of what you’ve done, just remember the result/end of all that hard work ( your hiuse/car/vacations/ belongings) are your kids starting point. The expectation for the kid is that this is the default. You’ve given her a good life by working hard and expecting her to reward you by being a good kid. Nope. Doesn’t work that way.

Stay firm, stay consistent (especially between you and your wife) and start to reign in her attitude by adjusting her daily routine. Ditch the TV and screen time (we limited screens to 1 hour a day when she was very young and only on weekends when she was in school).

finally, you are going to have to adjust your ambitions and drop them a bit while you focus on your kid. This has been the hardest part of being a parent. Your desires are now 2nd (at least). I’d be willing to bet your frustration is in part the result of your kid getting in the way of your desires to do something (big or small). That’s a sign your priorities need adjusting.

parenting ain’t easy - good luck.

 

[Marbles]

My daughter (3 years old) has certainly left me knowing I need to get a better handle on myself. Part of being a parent is growing snd learning ourselves.

Pick your battles, make sure you are both willing and able to win. Remember, sometimes ignoring something will effectively extinguish the behavior over time.

Remember that winning involves raising a person who is better than yourself, it is not defined be one moment and winning in the moment should be with the goal of winning over all (it sounds like you already have this in mind).

Don't make threats, don't say anything unless you fully intend to carry it out. I also like to offer choices, i.e. you can eat your food or you can go to your room, what do you want to do?

Of course, I pick the options to give high odds she will do what I want.

Humans don't learn in a linear fashion, many times things are learned, and must later be relearned. Expect to revisit behavior issues you think they know.

Find what motivates her in the moment. Such as if she is acting up to get your attention, insure it does not work (i.e. just take her to her room, close the door, and don't say anything; though there are a million variations of the same idea).

Also remember that many small punishments in short order results in better learning than 1 large punishment. Set up you discipline to give her multiple opertinities to try again and be rewarded for what you want, or diciplined for what you don't.

There is no shame in having to tap out and hand her to another adult, or take some other easy way out, it is more important to keep your cool.

I rarely spank, it is reserved for the rare moments when no other escalation is possible (i.e. I have told her to go to her room and she refuses). For my oldest, simply carrying her to her room in such situations did not make enough impact.

This leads to another point, observe for effect. No effect from a light spanking is a sign to find another methode, attempting to inflict more pain is not a good answer.

Well, this is already rambling, so I will leave off. Training up children is hard, no one is going to nail it down over the internet, but hopefully you can pick up some good ideas that will work for you and for her.

 

[WCB]

What has worked the best for my wife and I is we talk to our daughter for the most part like an adult 90% of the time. I have never met a well behaved well adjusted kid that was talked to like a baby or general babied. Also, when you can tell she knows that she is pushing buttons or she knows exactly how she is trying to manipulate the situation the answer is just plain and simply NO. There is no option for repeat offenses. If you are giving her directions and you know she understands them perfectly well there is zero explaining or coercing on mine or my wife's part.

As others have also said pick your battles. If your daughter is intentionally pushing buttons but it is something super minor like making annoying noises or doing the " I'm not touching it but I'm touching it even though you told me not to..." gig ignore ignore ignore and don't make it a big deal. Most likely they will get bored and stop.

Another thing that compared to some of the people we know with kids is ours gets A LOT less screen time than any of them and her tantrums and the reasons she gets an attituded is total different. Our daughter throws a fit when it is time to go back inside or because we are leaving the garden or I have to put the 4-wheerl or riding lawn mower away without her getting a ride. Not because she can't watch cartoons or play games on a tablet.

I've snatched stuff form my daughter and gave it a good fling a time or two. I don't think there is harm in it really. Remember she owns nothing everything is yours and your wife's she just gets to use it at her discretion. Same with the occasional spanking or smack on the hand. Obviously this is done when she isn't doing what she is supposed to be doing and not for just generally pushing buttons. Don't punish because it makes you frustrated punish to correct. Then as with horses, dogs, etc release that pressure (punishment) as soon as you see the positive response.

 

[ODB]

@WCB great call on talking to the kid like an adult. We did the same. In comparison, my cousins wife talked to their kids like kids, and guess what - at 7 and 12, they still sound like they are 3 year olds.

 

[wildwilderness]

Don't spank your kids, it is a short term solution that has long term repercussions. setting rules/boundaries that are age based, and taking the time to enforce the non-violent consequences takes a lot more effort but in the long run will raise great kids.

You need to be the adult, and that means calming yourself and not bringing yourself down to their level. In the long run a tantrum doesn't matter.... they are actually being age appropriate! Just wait til they turn 3- way harder than 2 yrs.

 

[LostArra]

Playing with your grandchildren one day is a reward for the chore of raising your own kids.

Some days I wished I could have just gone straight to grandkids.