pains of the terrible 2's

[Lowg08]

I could offer endless advice but honestly they figure out the consequences don’t seem so bad for the act. Therefore that but needs busted. It served me well and still does for my kids.

 

[Drenalin]

My daughter is 5.5 now, and she got spankings starting at about 2.5 years old. Not for every transgression, but for doing something that endangered herself or someone else, or for repeated disobedience. I honestly don't remember the last time she needed one - she stopped doing things that led to spankings pretty quickly. In other situations, spankings weren't the answer and other things worked better.

My son, on the other hand, is 2.5 now. He doesn't respond at all to spanking. In fact, he's at the other end of the spectrum where cheerleading for him when he's doing good seems to lead to him misbehaving a lot less. I tried that with my daughter and it didn't work at all.

This is anecdotal of course, but the point is the answer for what to do in a given situation varies by family, child, and the situation. And you won't find that answer listening to strangers on a forum - what works for me, or my daughter, or my son may not work for you and your daughter in your situation. I don't feel like either of my kids ever really had terrible twos - we had our moments, but nothing actually "terrible."

I kind of hate the expression terrible twos, and especially all the other parents' warnings about it and assurances that the kids would somehow grow out of their bad behavior. BS...if you ride out those "terrible twos" thinking some switch will miraculously flip and a kid will just know how to behave at 3 ,4, 5 without you figuring out to correct your child effectively, you'll probably end up with a kid who behaves terribly. That's my opinion anyway.

As far as spanking, if that's not something you want to do, don't do it. But the idea that spanking leads to some kind of long term damage is more BS - we're not talking about beatings or abuse, we're talking about a couple of swats on the backside. There's a lot more evidence that it can be effective than there is to the contrary. But again, it's not the right answer in every situation for every child.

I guess that's my rant/advice on the subject. Remember, free parenting advice is worth what you paid for it. You'll figure it out, like generations upon generations before you.

 

[JNDEER]

My dad and I had a long conversation about this. His dad (my grandpa) died fairly young unexpectedly. My dad says all he remembers of his father is beatings and obedience. My dad swatted me twice and I remember both of them like it was yesterday. I've swatted her a few times for serious offenses - but based on MY personal life experiences I prefer not to. To each their own on this one.






When I say I get "on her level" - I mean quite literally get on her level. I take a knee so we are face to face, I tell her EYES! We then have our discussion and I ask if she understands. "Most" of the time she knows this means daddys not messing around.




Understood.



I'm saying I think her drive and stubbornness is in her blood. Like good hunting lines in a dog, my daughter seems to have all of the personality traits from her great grandparents to my wife and I. It's challenging to reign all that personality in.




Not at all - I actually prefer to spend time with her. I get what you're saying though and thanks.

I saw you quoted a post and it says it’s from me- however I have never responded to this thread- nor do I spank??

As mentioned before, earning your kids trust is the key. For them to do what you ask simply because you asked them to do it.

 

[kpk]

I saw you quoted a post and it says it’s from me- however I have never responded to this thread- nor do I spank??

As mentioned before, earning your kids trust is the key. For them to do what you ask simply because you asked them to do it.

Not sure what happened there with the multi quote.....apologies.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

Hang in there. It will get better based on your response. If you respond, aggressively or anger, they will learn. In general, your problem will get worse based on what you're teaching them in these moments (verbal, nonverbal, etc.). Is it hard as hell > YES! I did good 95% of the time. Sometimes the situation was so irrational I was up shit creek with WTF is happening thoughts. It's absolutely true, what another member posted, you will learn your weaknesses when you have children. I'm generally calm and level-headed but I too have a threshold. I'm no different than those with low anger thresholds except mine is high. Both scenarios, you have to have the presence of mind to act the way you would want to act retrospectively NOT in the moment. It takes forethought. Those are two very different thought processes.

FWIW: There are a lot of times I wish I would have had the presence of mind but I didn't. My daughter is now 17 and all those moments of level-headedness, presence of mind, have far outweighed the irrational parental response moments. Will they happen > for sure. Keep them to an absolute minimal if possible. My daughter has on numerous occasions thanked me for being calm and respectful towards her during difficult times t/o her life. She know that she a challenge for her mom and I. I'm really good at focusing on the moment and not digging up the past. If disciplined or just an educational moment I convey the why/if in a clear manner for her. She a good kid but very independent which retrospectively is a great character in my teenage daughter. 3.5+ GPA. Part-time job etc. AND she drops game with one shot for which I'm very proud!!

We tried numerous discipline approaches over the years. Some kids are like fine wine. Doesn't matter what you do they just get better which age and maturity. Others are like a recipe, if you add the wrong ingredient, it will come out bad. Find what works for your kid.

Spanking is an option but not first-choice in our household. Again dependent on the child, with my daughter it would only make things 1000x worse. Yes you read that right. After trying numerous options I tried spanking. I learned quickly with her that style was a no go. With my son, LIGHT spank on the butt, and issue resolved. However, he has been so easy, I think that happened 1-2 times. He is almost 13.

 

[j33]

We have 3 & 1 year old boys, high energy ones. My wife is struggling being at home all day with them, oldest has big time attitude with tantrums, hits, bites his brother…

1) Spanking doesn’t work with him. It worked until he was around 2 1/2 years old, but now it seems to teach him hitting is okay and he starts hitting more. I had a discussion with my brother who has 4 kids and his experiences are that it didn’t work with his kids either. We’ll see what happens with the 1 year old.
2) Pick your battles: I’m good at this, wife isn’t.

We’ve decided next time he bites his bro he’ll get a small taste of Tobasco, wish us luck… Taking stuff he values away for a few days and explaining why seems to be working. Like everyone we’re winging it, there’s no set rules for every kid just gotta try stuff. Lots of good stuff in this thread.

 

[ThrowawayPNW]

I can’t believe some of you are really out there hitting 3 year olds or younger.
Anyway, at that age you don’t talk to them like a baby, or an adult. You talk to them like a caveman. Mimic their outbursts. Seriously. If she’s mad about something I literally will say ‘Joan mad! Mad! Mad!’ While shaking my fists in the air. Seriously it gets her tantrums to stop and it gives her a voice she can’t formulate herself. Then I use that moment to educate. Short and simply. Read Happiest Toddler on the Block by Dr. Harvey Karp.

 

[TheGDog]

I'm sorry... but people that are just vehemently against spanking and corporal punishment... are just plain dumb. "Yeah I said it!" And hear's why....

Now... understand something. Neither I nor anybody else is advocating being a d*ck and indiscriminantly whompin on a kid for no reason. No, no, no. Faaaaaaaaar from it.

It's really simple and can be boiled down to a key few concepts :
"I Say, You Do!" and "Consistency is Key"

Example: (Gonna use my boys name here)

1st time:
"Connor! I need you to not do that again please. Because <give the logical reasoning in simplified form, so they understand it's not because you just wanna be a d*ck>, If you do that again, I'm gonna spank your butt, do you understand? <Make sure they acknowledge. And make sure they repeat WHY you don't want them to do it, and "because I said so" is not a valid reason at that young age> P.S. you make them repeat back to you what you said so they can't act like they didn't understand later.

2nd time:
"CONNOR~! What did I say was gonna happen if you did that again? What did I say about why I want you to not do that? <They try to re-iterate what you warned them with, you help further clarify and review the reasons why>. Then you tell them to turn around. And you give them one spank with just enough stank on it that it had a little sting to it. (It's much less than you think.) THEN... you explain to them how if this happens again how you're going to spank them again, and not only that you're going to <insert what ever other much more steeply elevated additional non-corporal punishment you wanna tack on that you know will upset them greatly, such as taking away whatever, or they will have to stay in their room without X or Y in there, for some hefty period of time, well, hefty for a young one anyway, say... 10-15 min?> (P.S. - Don't cave! After the tantrum crying subsides while they're in their room... they'll start to be like "I'll Be Good!.....Daddy... I'll Be Good... can I Come Out Now? And *sometimes* you may decide to cut the isolation shorter because they sound so woeful, hehe. But ya need to not do that in the beginning. Very important to adhere to what you said you were going to do. Usually Mama would handle possibly letting him back out, but she'd review with him what they did, why it was bad, and how they must listen to Mommy and Daddy)

3rd time:
"CONNOR! Do you remember what I said would happen if you did this again? What did I say? <Have them repeat it back, in all of these, have them repeat it back>. Make them turn around. <Your committed consistency in everything always will have them already exhibiting trepidation about turning around to receive that swat, but you must make them do it>. Then you make sure to re-iterate the logical reasons why Daddy told you not to do X or Y, again, so they know it's not like you're doing this just to be a d*ck with them. Then you follow thru.... to the letter... with all the other sh*t you said you were going to do.

If you do this, all the time, everytime. And do EXACTLY what you said you were going to do? VERY quickly, you will never have to hit your kid again, and he will mind your @$$ very diligently. And why? For no other reason than your consistency in executing it. The consistency will QUICKLY teach them that "Papa don't play!"

Because of your consistency... AND.. how you make sure he knows WHY you're doing these things. It'll be VERY rare that he tries to check you on anything ever again. And then you NEVER have to hit. Why? Because you consistency demonstrates that there will be NO WAIVERING on your part. So like any animal that walks the face of this Earth... they will Quickly fall in-line because of that consistent Pavlov-ian conditioning.

People don't like to admit it to themselves, don't like to hear it, but training a child is JUST like training a Dog. Only difference? Very quickly with that toddler you begin to have that extra tool of being able to speak to them.

And ya know, because you love them and don't like seeing them being all boo-hoo-y. When you go to retrieve them from their escalated punishment/time-out they got after the spanking on that 3rd time. You lovingly remind them "You're gonna be a Good Boy, Right? Cause Daddy and Mommy don't want to have to spank you, so I need you to be a Good Boy and listen and do what Daddy or Mommy tells you to do, Ok?

And be prepared... because on the very rare instance that the child tries to check you while you're out and about in public, you will have to execute the steps just the same then as well. And you WILL get side-eye from other nosey b*tches in your periphery. BUT.....BUT.... What THEY DON'T SEE... are all the times other people are constantly complimenting you on how your boy is so polite and says his Pleases and Thank You's unprompted, and says "Yes" not "Yeah". Or how all his teachers talk about how he's a pleasure to have in their class (later on when he starts in school of course).

And.. I want to relay a story to you. I was 14yo when my younger brother was born. My older brothers beat on me often, so I vowed that with him, it was NOT going to be like that at all. I baby-sat him from 0 to 3yrs old for whole summers at a time. And because of that consistency, he quickly learned to mind and with me quickly becoming a young adult with a vehicle, we got to have all kinds of fun together BECAUSE he minded!

More importantly... because of my consistency, it saved his life. At about 2.5yo... when the whole family was home... I happened to look over and see he had a paperclip in his hand and was gonna try to stick it into the power outlet! So I yelled "PATRICK!"... and because of that conditioning.. the very first thing he did was to tense-up and retract his arms back up to his body because I was using my strong reprimanding voice. I saved my little brothers life from likely getting defibrilated from electric shock that day.

So... if you love.. truly love them... you will execute in this fashion. AND... you will have a much more fun relationship with them because they will mind you! Because they learn... say it with me now.. that "Papa don't Play!"

EDIT: Also... especially when they become a lil bit older and speech understanding is much improved you also make sure every time to include Mommy in what you're saying to them. Backing Mommy up. "If I or Mommy tell you not to do X and you do it than <this is what will happen>"

P.S.S. - Example that really bugs me bad.. and you see it all the damn time... you'll be in the grocery store and some Moms kids is losing their isht several aisles over from where she is... and she'll start saying stupid isht... that she is saying solely for the benefit of any adult within ear-shot... and the kinda thing she will say is.. "Now Johnny, remember? We talked about this! You stop that right now! I'm warning you!... I mean it!" but it's all bullsh*t.. and the kid knows... that kid already knows she ain't gonna do isht. Because she never follows thru.. so he continues on with a full blown tantrum, that just gets worse when she FINALLY manages to waddle her fat a$$ over there to finally at least begin to do something. And eeeeevery once in a blue moon.... a real fun thing I'll do... if I'm really feeling like a stinker.... is to use this big voice of mine and I'll cup my hand over my mouth and say "Quit Beating That Child!".... and what is sooo beautiful about it is that it lights a fire under her a$$ to finally get with it and do something about her damn wild a$$ kids that she obviously can't control because it makes other folks in the store who heard me then turn around to see if some kid is actually being beaten on.. cause you know... their already waling in that tantrum. I've only done that a few times.. but oh my goodness it was sweet! And to be clear, I only did when it was way way obvious that the B wasn't gonna do a damn thing and was merely talking like she was because she was trying to convince all the adults around that she really wasn't the bad mom she truly is, and was actually gonna (HA! yeah right!) do something about it.

 

[Coastiecreation]

Oh man I heard the phrase terrible 2’s and repeated it around my friends that have children older than my own and they laughed said wait till they are 3. My son will be 4 in November and my Daughter 2 in January. Son has acquired an attitude and is very sensitive. It does not help that my daughter is far more sophisticated than he was at her age because she had someone to learn from and push her but man she is a little pistol. She tortures him and does everything you describe. I work in Alaska and am gone half the year and since COVID has been around it’s caused me to be gone more so I’m not around enough to be that strong arm in the relationship. I have to bite my teeth and go along with the punches to my wife’s routine because I’m a flash in the pan in the household so I just gotta fall in line. Nobody is perfect and there is no manual to raising children I think everything posted before me made good points. At the end of the day you do have to remember they are kids even though I just want to spank the shhhh out of them as my parents did I don’t. Although my wife has tried to steer clear of that approach I did get a good laugh when she finally resorted to it on the rare occasion. I would say find what works best for you make it work. Get them to bed and have a beer clear your head.....that is if they don’t wake up an hour later it’s a ride man enjoy it. It’ll be in your rear window before you know it and we will probably miss it..... that’s what my wife tells me anyways I don’t think I will though

 

[TheGDog]

What I most miss are the cute ways he'd pronounce certain words at that age!

One I still say to my wife sometimes to this day is "Tenchu!" ... Which was the way he pronounced "Thank You" when he just started talking fairly decent.

I had to wait 38 looooong as years for him to finally become a reality. He's approaching 14yo soon, and now finally about as tall as his Mama.

 

[Marbles]

Consistency is key with any method.

The "I say, you do!" Parenting attitude is poor leadership and training. From the military to literal wolf packs such a leadership style does not produce the autonomous loyalty that is the mark of the best leaders. In my experience, the more elite a unit, the less blind obedience was expected.

Good leaders get blind obedience when they need it because they are trusted and just (and justice demands consequences). Poor leaders substitute fear for trust and require blind obedience in place of being just.

Pavlovian conditioning is how one produces a robot, not an autonomous adult.

Much depends on how an idea is conceived and applied by a person. I have seen the Koehler Method of dog training work well for a person who applied its harsher aspects sparingly. However, there is more than one reported occasion where a military or police dog handler has literally killed their partner by applying those training methods with a heavy hand (which a reasonable person could get from reading Koehler and this has held up in court with a judge rulling that a handler who killed his partner while applying punishment was improperly fired for it as he was following policy). Evidence is mounting that working dogs trained with Koehler style methods need more frequently retraining and are more likely to bite their handlers than those trained with shaping and positive reinforcement.

Similarly, some parents cross the line in the name of dicipline and it only takes dealing with one or two of those to put a very bad tast in ones mouth for the Micheal Pearl followers who use his books to justify abuse.

As stated earlier, Norway is a case study for a society that completely bans corporal punishment and proof that it is not needed to train up children. I'm glad I live where spanking is allowed, but my use of it does not blind me to the fact that good results can be achieved without it and that reasonable people can develop a strong dislike of it.

Different individuals react differently to things. There is not one correct way to parent, but there are definitively wrong ways (the Self Esteem Method on one extreme, abusive corporal punishment on the other, or just inconsistency in general).

 

[Mule3006Elk]

I'm sorry... but people that are just vehemently against spanking and corporal punishment... are just plain dumb. "Yeah I said it!" And hear's why....

Now... understand something. Neither I nor anybody else is advocating being a d*ck and indiscriminantly whompin on a kid for no reason. No, no, no. Faaaaaaaaar from it.

It's really simple and can be boiled down to a key few concepts :
"I Say, You Do!" and "Consistency is Key"

Example: (Gonna use my boys name here)

1st time:
"Connor! I need you to not do that again please. Because <give the logical reasoning in simplified form, so they understand it's not because you just wanna be a d*ck>, If you do that again, I'm gonna spank your butt, do you understand? <Make sure they acknowledge. And make sure they repeat WHY you don't want them to do it, and "because I said so" is not a valid reason at that young age> P.S. you make them repeat back to you what you said so they can't act like they didn't understand later.

2nd time:
"CONNOR~! What did I say was gonna happen if you did that again? What did I say about why I want you to not do that? <They try to re-iterate what you warned them with, you help further clarify and review the reasons why>. Then you tell them to turn around. And you give them one spank with just enough stank on it that it had a little sting to it. (It's much less than you think.) THEN... you explain to them how if this happens again how you're going to spank them again, and not only that you're going to <insert what ever other much more steeply elevated additional non-corporal punishment you wanna tack on that you know will upset them greatly, such as taking away whatever, or they will have to stay in their room without X or Y in there, for some hefty period of time, well, hefty for a young one anyway, say... 10-15 min?> (P.S. - Don't cave! After the tantrum crying subsides while they're in their room... they'll start to be like "I'll Be Good!.....Daddy... I'll Be Good... can I Come Out Now? And *sometimes* you may decide to cut the isolation shorter because they sound so woeful, hehe. But ya need to not do that in the beginning. Very important to adhere to what you said you were going to do. Usually Mama would handle possibly letting him back out, but she'd review with him what they did, why it was bad, and how they must listen to Mommy and Daddy)

3rd time:
"CONNOR! Do you remember what I said would happen if you did this again? What did I say? <Have them repeat it back, in all of these, have them repeat it back>. Make them turn around. <Your committed consistency in everything always will have them already exhibiting trepidation about turning around to receive that swat, but you must make them do it>. Then you make sure to re-iterate the logical reasons why Daddy told you not to do X or Y, again, so they know it's not like you're doing this just to be a d*ck with them. Then you follow thru.... to the letter... with all the other sh*t you said you were going to do.

If you do this, all the time, everytime. And do EXACTLY what you said you were going to do? VERY quickly, you will never have to hit your kid again, and he will mind your @$$ very diligently. And why? For no other reason than your consistency in executing it. The consistency will QUICKLY teach them that "Papa don't play!"

Because of your consistency... AND.. how you make sure he knows WHY you're doing these things. It'll be VERY rare that he tries to check you on anything ever again. And then you NEVER have to hit. Why? Because you consistency demonstrates that there will be NO WAIVERING on your part. So like any animal that walks the face of this Earth... they will Quickly fall in-line because of that consistent Pavlov-ian conditioning.

People don't like to admit it to themselves, don't like to hear it, but training a child is JUST like training a Dog. Only difference? Very quickly with that toddler you begin to have that extra tool of being able to speak to them.

And ya know, because you love them and don't like seeing them being all boo-hoo-y. When you go to retrieve them from their escalated punishment/time-out they got after the spanking on that 3rd time. You lovingly remind them "You're gonna be a Good Boy, Right? Cause Daddy and Mommy don't want to have to spank you, so I need you to be a Good Boy and listen and do what Daddy or Mommy tells you to do, Ok?

And be prepared... because on the very rare instance that the child tries to check you while you're out and about in public, you will have to execute the steps just the same then as well. And you WILL get side-eye from other nosey b*tches in your periphery. BUT.....BUT.... What THEY DON'T SEE... are all the times other people are constantly complimenting you on how your boy is so polite and says his Pleases and Thank You's unprompted, and says "Yes" not "Yeah". Or how all his teachers talk about how he's a pleasure to have in their class (later on when he starts in school of course).

And.. I want to relay a story to you. I was 14yo when my younger brother was born. My older brothers beat on me often, so I vowed that with him, it was NOT going to be like that at all. I baby-sat him from 0 to 3yrs old for whole summers at a time. And because of that consistency, he quickly learned to mind and with me quickly becoming a young adult with a vehicle, we got to have all kinds of fun together BECAUSE he minded!

More importantly... because of my consistency, it saved his life. At about 2.5yo... when the whole family was home... I happened to look over and see he had a paperclip in his hand and was gonna try to stick it into the power outlet! So I yelled "PATRICK!"... and because of that conditioning.. the very first thing he did was to tense-up and retract his arms back up to his body because I was using my strong reprimanding voice. I saved my little brothers life from likely getting defibrilated from electric shock that day.

So... if you love.. truly love them... you will execute in this fashion. AND... you will have a much more fun relationship with them because they will mind you! Because they learn... say it with me now.. that "Papa don't Play!"

EDIT: Also... especially when they become a lil bit older and speech understanding is much improved you also make sure every time to include Mommy in what you're saying to them. Backing Mommy up. "If I or Mommy tell you not to do X and you do it than <this is what will happen>"

P.S.S. - Example that really bugs me bad.. and you see it all the damn time... you'll be in the grocery store and some Moms kids is losing their isht several aisles over from where she is... and she'll start saying stupid isht... that she is saying solely for the benefit of any adult within ear-shot... and the kinda thing she will say is.. "Now Johnny, remember? We talked about this! You stop that right now! I'm warning you!... I mean it!" but it's all bullsh*t.. and the kid knows... that kid already knows she ain't gonna do isht. Because she never follows thru.. so he continues on with a full blown tantrum, that just gets worse when she FINALLY manages to waddle her fat a$$ over there to finally at least begin to do something. And eeeeevery once in a blue moon.... a real fun thing I'll do... if I'm really feeling like a stinker.... is to use this big voice of mine and I'll cup my hand over my mouth and say "Quit Beating That Child!".... and what is sooo beautiful about it is that it lights a fire under her a$$ to finally get with it and do something about her damn wild a$$ kids that she obviously can't control because it makes other folks in the store who heard me then turn around to see if some kid is actually being beaten on.. cause you know... their already waling in that tantrum. I've only done that a few times.. but oh my goodness it was sweet! And to be clear, I only did when it was way way obvious that the B wasn't gonna do a damn thing and was merely talking like she was because she was trying to convince all the adults around that she really wasn't the bad mom she truly is, and was actually gonna (HA! yeah right!) do something about it.

There's not a one all be all parental approach (spanking for example). It sounds like that style worked for you. Worked just fine with my son but absolutely the worst approach with my daughter.

The common theme with your style and methods that work is CONSISTENCY. As you stated. 100% agree.

My kids know if I said I'm going to take something away it's gone! There's not a 2nd chance, 3rd chance, etc. I revoked my daughter's car for 4 weeks for coming home late when she clearly knew her curfew. She was allowed to drive to and from school only. If I say I'm going to take my son's internet privilege away it's gone. If you are trying to correct a behavior with a consequence the parent must follow through with the action. It really is as simple as that. BUT not always sometimes kids have mental illness or other contributing variables which an astute parent should recognize and modify parenting approach to fit that individual. Regardless of the situation CONSISTENCY must be the baseline CONSTANT.

 

[netman]

Hahahaha I’m not laughing at you but with you. I have two daughters. One is 35 and the other is 31.
The 35 was bossy, back talked, stand offish, smarter than a whip, quick witted, aggressive and had a desire to succeed. This was when she as 2.5 now she’s a lawyer.
The 31 was kind, gentle, wanted to play outside all day, loved to run wide open non stop and wanted to please her daddy.
Now she’s a Radiology Technologist at a large hospital doing well. She is currently 7 months pregnant and has a 2.5 year old daughter.
I can tell you that both of my girls knew the line to toe and the line to never cross.
I demanded the best from my daughters. NO SETTLING
I grew up in a very violent home with my dad. My mom was a mini life raft. My dad knew no better because he grew up in a very violent home. As did my grandfather.
So I was going to be the chain breaker in that type of environment.
I spanked my oldest once. I learned as I got older that I wish I never had. I never spanked the youngest.
I grew up with violence and violence grew up with me. I took to aggressive sports very well. Basically I grew up with negative reinforcement.
Then I met a man a former Green Beret who served three tours in Vietnam.
He spoke to me and of me in best terms. When he introduced me to people it was if I was someone very important and high ranking. I monitored his demeanor at all times and decided I had seen enough to say I wanted to be like him. He was as around my girls a lot and they picked up his good vibes and great outlook.
Now my granddaughter is 2.5. What used to agitate me now makes me laugh. My granddaughter is just like my oldest daughter. My youngest says it like having her sister for her daughter.
We laugh however we set boundaries.
But as you age you’ll look back and laugh at all the nonsense these little girls say and do. We cherish our daughters and granddaughter. I’m about to have a grandson.
Man life couldn’t be better!

 

[jakeller27]

I can't really add any advice to the thread because I'm there myself, but I can say that it's tough at times! My wife and I have 2.5 year old twin girls and a 3 month old little girl. We struggle with consistency and structure now that the baby is here and I have definitely noticed that when we slip into poor routines, the behavior goes way downhill from the twins. They are very smart and generally very well-behaved little girls, but when they don't get what they want, it's pretty tough to get them back on track. I think we're making progress with one of them in that she is starting to acknowledge when she has overreacted and needs to calm down. She'll ask for some time alone and then tell us that she's not crying anymore. I can only hope that their intelligence helps them figure out what they need and hopefully helps them reach the maturity to be rational at some point in the not too distant future.

On another selfish note, I'm not sure how my hunting plans are going to shape up this year. The idea of leaving my wife to handle these crazy toddlers and the baby seems pretty selfish. We eat what I kill so I feel like I'm providing for the family in that regard, but I pursue it as a hobby. I'm sure this has been discussed several times and I'm not trying to derail the thread, but it's on my mind as a dad in a similar situation...

 

[3forks]

I got spanked as a kid and learned to do the Indian dance. I‘m sure you guys know the dance too. It’s where your mom has you by the arm, and is trying to paddle your ass while you twist and turn and try to block her swats with your one free hand.

Anyway, I’m no worse for the experience, but I don’t recall getting swatted too often. My wife on the other hand grew up in a household with a lot of verbal abuse and intimidation. Also, her brother was knocked around. Anyway, when we had our kid, she said yelling or physically hitting our child was out of the question.

I was skeptical of her concept of disciplining, because I don’t think I suffered any long term consequences from my upbringing. However, so far - being gentle but firm, and consistent in what we’re expecting from our kid is working out.

I’m hesitant to criticize anyone who parents differently than we do, but to the posters who mention their tempers and know they have short fuses - think about what you‘re teaching your kids and what affect that is having on your kids.

I never considered myself a hot head or someone with the kind of temper that makes them see just see red, but my wife would occasionally point something out I was doing in the moment, and I realized she was right. Driving was usually the scenario... some asshole would cut us off or do something unsafe, and my reaction was laying on the horn and getting irritated. Because of my wife’s upbringing, she has a low tolerance for that kind of thing, and would ask me why I’m letting it affect me so much. Essentially, let it go and not feel that stress. It took a while, but I realized she was right. Being able to consciously recognize that I didn’t have react that way and get agitated seems like a simple thing, but until she pointed it out - I didn’t realize how often I was doing it.

I‘ve always been into bird dogs that run fast and wide, and horses. There’s a lot I learned in my life training animals that I now use in parenting. Most of if it concerns knowing my own weaknesses and trying to train/parent with patience and consistency.

Some of you may have heard of a guy named Buck Brannaman. If you haven’t, he’s a horse trainer that is very well respected. Buck grew up in an abusive household, and attributes his upbringing to the approach he uses with animals. “Gentle in what you do, firm in how you do it. Horses and life, it's all the same to me. It's all about the quality of communication, not the quantity.”

I don’t want to get too far into the weeds in equating parenting with training animals, but there are a lot of similarities. I’ll never be receptive to some of the “authorities” on parenting and the touchy/feely content of their success manuals for raising kids. But, there’s a documentary called “Buck”, and seeing and hearing how this horse trainer can calm and train the hottest blooded and obstinate horses as well his approach to people might help anyone who is interested in trying to learn some new tactics in regards to parenting. Again, I’m not trying to equate parenting with training animals. Anyone who has both kids and animals knows dealing with a critter is way easier than dealing with a toddler.

Some quotes from Buck Brannaman (substitute the word “horse” for “kid“, and see how many of these quotes resonate with you).

· The Horse is a mirror to your soul; sometimes you will like what you see, sometimes you won’t.
· Timing is everything.
· Be particular, don’t be picky.
· Release!
· Gentle in what you do, firm in how you do it.
· Horses and life, it’s all the same to me.
· It’s all about the quality of communication, not the quantity.
· Your other left!
· Everything you do with a horse is a dance.
· Bribery doesn’t work with horses.
· Solutions to problems often come from knowing when to ask for help.
· Release!
· Horses are incredibly forgiving, they fill in places we are not capable of filling ourselves.
· Every turn begins with a reach.
· If you can’t get it done at the lope, get it done at the trot. If you can’t get it done at the trot, get it done at the walk.
· The horse is a great equalizer, he doesn’t care how good looking you are, or how rich you are, or how powerful you are; he takes you for how you make him feel.
· Working with horses is like being married, sometimes you need to adjust and change your plan.
· Horses and life, it’s all the same to me.
· Anytime you are with a horse, no matter if you are a daily rider or one who just gets a chance to ride to the mailbox; you are interacting with your horse.
· Doing something right with your horse once in a while will far surpass anything done wrong more often.
· Release!
· I started to realize that things would come much easier for me once I learned why a horse does what he does.
· There are no problem horses, only problem riders.
· Whether its horses or whatever you do, it doesn’t become an art until your soul goes into what you do.
· On a horse, there, there is a perfect position of balance that takes no energy from the horse.
· The important thing is to make sure the last word you have with the horse is good for both of you.
· Release!
· One of the biggest challenges for a horseman is to be able to learn how to control his emotions.
· Horses aren’t lazy and they’re not greedy and they’re not jealous and they’re not spiteful and they’re not hateful.
· Give the horse a job. Learn how to build on a horse’s pride.
· Release!
· Whether one is going to have a horse, a dog, or a child, with that comes a great responsibility to raise them.
· Horses saved my life, so that’s while I’ll spend the rest of my life trying to help them.
· Release!
· The horse responds to comfort, they respond to peace better than about anything else you could do.
· I still want to be a better horseman.
· The absolute pure honesty of the horse, man that’s just the greatest thing there is.
· Discipline isn’t a dirty word.
· Nobody ever fixed a problem horse by pulling on two reins.
· Release! If a horse is dull to the leg, he will never be light to the hand.
· When you find that the horse is compelled and interested in you, something in you changes.
· Most people don’t realize how many times you have to pick up a soft feel to make a good horse.
· The road may bend out of sight at times, but I know what lies ahead; the faraway horses.”

 

[Gen273]

No offense, but your attitude towards spanking is more than likely exacerbating the problem. In my opinion, the only thing that corrects negative behavior is negative consequences. That doesn't always have to include spanking, but it most certainly should not always exclude it either.

The phrase “be rigid in principle and flexible in application” has helped me. Knowing the situation and the people involved will help you in responding the right way.

I am sorry that you are going through this, as I know how taxing and defeating these situations are. I have counseled many through similar journeys. Make sure that you and your wife are on the same page and are working towards a common goal. Lastly, I would advise you to be very careful in making threats or promises when you are mad that you are unwilling to follow through on; this can make things much worse in the long run. Take it day by day, and remember that the chief goal of all discipline should be restoration.

 

[kpk]

The 35 was bossy, back talked, stand offish, smarter than a whip, quick witted, aggressive and had a desire to succeed. This was when she as 2.5 now she’s a lawyer.
The 31 was kind, gentle, wanted to play outside all day, loved to run wide open non stop and wanted to please her daddy.

This is a very accurate description of her....it just depends on the day which one we're gonna get LOL.

 

[Ta406]

I didn't read all 4 pages but here is my experience. We have 7 and 9 year old boys. We had the same issue with our first. When we began to give him choices and let him make some of his own decisions, things got much better. Simple choices like, "Do you want peas or carrots. Do you want a fork or spoon." Even little things like letting them pick their own cloths. Its hard because my boys wore some pretty interesting things out in public. But it gives them a sence of having a little control rather than being told what to do with every aspect of their lives. I'm not saying to let them run the show, you still have to be dad, but little things like this go a long way. And by the way, 3's (atleast for us) were worse, haha.

 

[TheGDog]

Just in case it sounded like I swat my kid a lot or something... the answer is NO. Hardly at all. Just a lil bit in the beginning, and then real quick they realize the consistency is there, so they're not stupid and they don't constantly test anymore.

Every once in a Blue Moon there'll be like maybe some sort of Temptation impulse factor that might make em cross that line. Like you said they could only have so much of a thing they absolutely would eat the whole damn thing if you let them. And again, like only when he was little.

Real quick once their speech grows, you can switch it over to taking away privileges and stuff they love.

It's like anything else in life, each individual flare up of them crossing the line, ya gotta judge how strong of a reprimand is required. My main point was that CONSISTENCY is imperative!

 

[TheGDog]

Hrmm... another thing that just crossed my mind, (that I make sure to tell new dog owners at the Dog Park regarding their training...) you also have to make sure you and Mama are a United front when it comes to the Manner in which discipline is executed.

If not, all that hard work you're putting into the training is being undone by some other person in that home. I see this ALL THE TIME with folks and their kids and with their dogs.

One tries to do it the right way... and then like they have a GrandMa or something that lives in the home with them and they totally do not get with the program, and it thwarts all the progress they're trying to make.