Painless load development (mine)

[Phil Anderson]

ADI is usually pretty conservative, they list 2750 as a top velocity, I would work up to that without hesitation
2209 IS H4350

Yeah I thought as much. The lower loads were consistent with book figures.
That’s good info. Thank you gents.

 

[MTMeatHunter]

“I don’t think that all the little adjustments that handloaders make are necessarily swinging the pendulum vast amounts of precision. It can look like that with small samples, but it really isn’t like that”. - Brian Litz

Blows my mind that people dismiss the things that Form says when the brightest minds in the business are in agreement.

 

[Bbell12]

Question for you guys on RCBS dies. Is it normal for you to have to screw the FL sizing die almost 1/4 turn past where the die contacts the shell holder? This is the only way I can get it to size my .204 brass where I need it. The manual says that it’s normal procedure for the press to cam over to achieve resizing but I’m a little concerned about longevity on my MEC press if I continue doing this long term.

Anyone have experience with this that can comment?

 

[tom338]

I don't own a Mac press....but on my RCBS press if you want the correct shoulder bump back most of the time you will have to do this. Your other option is to file down a shell holder so it does not touch your press.

 

[Harvey_NW]

“I don’t think that all the little adjustments that handloaders make are necessarily swinging the pendulum vast amounts of precision. It can look like that with small samples, but it really isn’t like that”. - Brian Litz

Blows my mind that people dismiss the things that Form says when the brightest minds in the business are in agreement.

"Does a wheel work? Works pretty good, but not if you need to eat a salad."

 

[JD Jones]

Started developing a new load for my CA Ridgeline FFT in 280ai and set out to try @Formidilosus method because it seemed simple and I like simple if it doesn’t compromise my end goal

I started with 2x fired Peterson brass. I removed spent primers. I sprayed with one shot and resized bumping 2 thou. I checked length then primed with cci250 mags.
I loaded 3 rounds. 59.5/60/60.5 gr of RL26. Seated 162gr eldx at 3.340 COAL
Went no pressure signs at 59.5
Slight ejector mark at 60
And a little more pronounced ejector mark at 60.5

Loaded 10 at 59.5

I had also been high and right on the first 3 shots so I adjusted after those 3 shots

Shot 1/10 no impact (wtf)
Shot 2/10 no impact (ok I screwed the zero correction up)
Shot 3/10 shot a target left over from someone else that had more surface area than my 9”plate. Impact low… adjusted

Shots 4-10… done

 

[ShortMountain91]

“I don’t think that all the little adjustments that handloaders make are necessarily swinging the pendulum vast amounts of precision. It can look like that with small samples, but it really isn’t like that”. - Brian Litz

Blows my mind that people dismiss the things that Form says when the brightest minds in the business are in agreement.

Great video. Just watching it brings to mind some easy load development strategies that wouldn't burn through a ton of components and Forms method is in the exact same vein as those ideas

 

[2Stamp]

Started developing a new load for my CA Ridgeline FFT in 280ai and set out to try @Formidilosus method because it seemed simple and I like simple if it doesn’t compromise my end goal

I started with 2x fired Peterson brass. I removed spent primers. I sprayed with one shot and resized bumping 2 thou. I checked length then primed with cci250 mags.
I loaded 3 rounds. 59.5/60/60.5 gr of RL26. Seated 162gr eldx at 3.340 COAL
Went no pressure signs at 59.5
Slight ejector mark at 60
And a little more pronounced ejector mark at 60.5

Loaded 10 at 59.5

I had also been high and right on the first 3 shots so I adjusted after those 3 shots

Shot 1/10 no impact (wtf)
Shot 2/10 no impact (ok I screwed the zero correction up)
Shot 3/10 shot a target left over from someone else that had more surface area than my 9”plate. Impact low… adjusted

Shots 4-10… done
View attachment 534525

I used this same method for my CA Ridgeline 280ai also, using Barnes 145 LRX. Very simple. I didn't try anything above book max, just up to max and stopped. I'd like a longer throat in this rifle though.

 

[id_jon]

New Tikka 6.5 PRC barrel, N565 144gr Berget LRHT. Vihtavuori load data suggests 54.2gr as max, loaded 5 @ 53.5 and shot them. No pressure signs and normal bolt lift. I need to switch primers cause I only have 200 GM215s, but I imagine CCI34s will be similar. I'll load 10 and check and if it's under an inch I'll call it good. The wonders of modern case design

 

[JD Jones]

N565 is a champ in my 6.5prc @id_jon

 

[ToolMann]

2nd round with this method. First time helped me fix a 243 I'd struggled with for year. This time, on Sunday, took my sons new Tikka 6.5 Creedmoor. IMR 4350 and 140 Nosler BTs. Loaded 5 rounds from max (41.5) down to mid range, 39.5. Shot them from lowest to top (hope that is obvious). Max gave me some sticky bolt lift and actually looked like it took a brass flake off from the ejector. I thought that was weird. It is non-expensive Hornady brass, but I've never seen that before. Funny thing was, not shooting for a "group", it actually grouped those 5 shots well. I'm going to load up 10 at 41.2 and 10 at 39.9 and see what she does. May load 5 more at max and see how it feels there too. See if it was a brass issue. I've always been able to load at max with 4350 without issue, but I know all are different. COAL was 2.825 (SAAMI max) and I still had plenty of space in the magazine. Not sure if loading to mag length would reduce pressure a bit. @Formidilosus , any thoughts on loading them a bit longer to mag length with obviously checking to make sure I'm not hitting lands (I shouldn't be in a Tikka)?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus , any thoughts on loading them a bit longer to mag length with obviously checking to make sure I'm not hitting lands (I shouldn't be in a Tikka)?

There’s nothing functionally wrong with loading them longer. If they aren’t touching lands, pressure should be reduced doing so.

 

[TexAg08]

2nd round with this method. First time helped me fix a 243 I'd struggled with for year. This time, on Sunday, took my sons new Tikka 6.5 Creedmoor. IMR 4350 and 140 Nosler BTs. Loaded 5 rounds from max (41.5) down to mid range, 39.5. Shot them from lowest to top (hope that is obvious). Max gave me some sticky bolt lift and actually looked like it took a brass flake off from the ejector. I thought that was weird. It is non-expensive Hornady brass, but I've never seen that before. Funny thing was, not shooting for a "group", it actually grouped those 5 shots well. I'm going to load up 10 at 41.2 and 10 at 39.9 and see what she does. May load 5 more at max and see how it feels there too. See if it was a brass issue. I've always been able to load at max with 4350 without issue, but I know all are different. COAL was 2.825 (SAAMI max) and I still had plenty of space in the magazine. Not sure if loading to mag length would reduce pressure a bit. @Formidilosus , any thoughts on loading them a bit longer to mag length with obviously checking to make sure I'm not hitting lands (I shouldn't be in a Tikka)?

Sounds like Hornady brass. Soft.

 

[ToolMann]

A bit of a conundrum. The new gun shot great at .5 grains under max, IMR 4350. COAL is SAAMI max of 2.825. Loaded 15 for my son to shoot after seeing to have pressure issue at max load. first 5, .9" at 100. Next 5 "truing velocity" at 300 (my first time doing it this way). Vertical dispersion was less than 2". Wind was getting him horizontally. Figured we were 2675 FPS range, dialed for 600, held 2 minutes of wind, pinged the 10" gong. But...the bolt was a bit hard to close. Thought maybe needed to bump the shoulder on the brass back a bit (first firing, was FL sized before loading).

Picked up a modified case and started measuring. Checked base to Ogive on a few bullets and they were consistent. The longest I can get using the OAL gauge, even when pressing hard enough to see land marks on the bullet Ogive, was 2.289. And that was really smashing it in there. Loaded an unprimed "dummy" round to check it, 2.307". So it seems I'm a bit long. My other two Tikkas are all at mag length but the throat has plenty more room, so this one is new for me. Probably should have checked first.

I'm thinking I should load some with the same .5 grain under max, but shorten them up a bit. Probably start a little lower just to be safe. Just hoping I don't end up having to loose too much velocity and the thing still shoots great.

Sorry for the ramble

 

[wind gypsy]

A bit of a conundrum. The new gun shot great at .5 grains under max, IMR 4350. COAL is SAAMI max of 2.825. Loaded 15 for my son to shoot after seeing to have pressure issue at max load. first 5, .9" at 100. Next 5 "truing velocity" at 300 (my first time doing it this way). Vertical dispersion was less than 2". Wind was getting him horizontally. Figured we were 2675 FPS range, dialed for 600, held 2 minutes of wind, pinged the 10" gong. But...the bolt was a bit hard to close. Thought maybe needed to bump the shoulder on the brass back a bit (first firing, was FL sized before loading).

Picked up a modified case and started measuring. Checked base to Ogive on a few bullets and they were consistent. The longest I can get using the OAL gauge, even when pressing hard enough to see land marks on the bullet Ogive, was 2.289. And that was really smashing it in there. Loaded an unprimed "dummy" round to check it, 2.307". So it seems I'm a bit long. My other two Tikkas are all at mag length but the throat has plenty more room, so this one is new for me. Probably should have checked first.

I'm thinking I should load some with the same .5 grain under max, but shorten them up a bit. Probably start a little lower just to be safe. Just hoping I don't end up having to loose too much velocity and the thing still shoots great.

Sorry for the ramble

To clarify, your dummy round @ 2.307" BTO was seated to the same depth as the ammo you were shooting so you were shooting them jammed in the lands?

If you are not seeing pressure with them jammed hard into the lands, seating deeper in the case to give them a little jump should reduce pressure rather than increase it.

 

[Juno07]

Hey guys,

What would you guys do if you go past published min/max load data and still dont have pressure signs?

300wm
New hornady brass
(used a 30cal neck expanding mandrel after i found out the necks were friggin oval)
Not crimped
Fed 215m
H4831

Using the hodgdon website i wen by 0.5 increments from 70 to 72.5gr and had no pressure signs.

Then using the barnes data i went from 72 to 76 by 0.5 increments and again, saw no pressure signs.

No cratering, flattening, blow outs, no heavy bolt lifts, no ejector marks, swipes....nothing. But I'm beyond the data i have on hand. Do you keep going? Or call it quits at 76grs and see what the velocity/groups are like?


Thanks for the replies/great thread.

 

[Juno07]

Hey guys,

What would you guys do if you go past published min/max load data and still dont have pressure signs?

300wm
New hornady brass
(used a 30cal neck expanding mandrel after i found out the necks were friggin oval)
Not crimped
Fed 215m
H4831

Using the hodgdon website i wen by 0.5 increments from 70 to 72.5gr and had no pressure signs.

Then using the barnes data i went from 72 to 76 by 0.5 increments and again, saw no pressure signs.

No cratering, flattening, blow outs, no heavy bolt lifts, no ejector marks, swipes....nothing. But I'm beyond the data i have on hand. Do you keep going? Or call it quits at 76grs and see what the velocity/groups are like?


Thanks for the replies/great thread.

I also forgot to mention: I'm at 3.4" coal as my rifle uses a magazine.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

I also forgot to mention: I'm at 3.4" coal as my rifle uses a magazine.

What bullet?

 

[Juno07]

What bullet?

Ah damn, i forgot. Its a 180gr ttsx.

 

[wind gypsy]

Hey guys,

What would you guys do if you go past published min/max load data and still dont have pressure signs?

300wm
New hornady brass
(used a 30cal neck expanding mandrel after i found out the necks were friggin oval)
Not crimped
Fed 215m
H4831

Using the hodgdon website i wen by 0.5 increments from 70 to 72.5gr and had no pressure signs.

Then using the barnes data i went from 72 to 76 by 0.5 increments and again, saw no pressure signs.

No cratering, flattening, blow outs, no heavy bolt lifts, no ejector marks, swipes....nothing. But I'm beyond the data i have on hand. Do you keep going? Or call it quits at 76grs and see what the velocity/groups are like?


Thanks for the replies/great thread.

The main factors I'd be considering:
- what is h20 case capacity of the brass you are using vs what is typically seen in the brass brand used in the load manual. This impacts how much pressure it builts
- what is the velocity of your ammo compared to listed max loads with that bullet, corrected for barrel length discrepancies.

In general 300 wm "published" data is garbage for the average loader who has no concept of chamber, brass, barrel variances that may cause differences in pressure because there is a shit ton of variance in brass between manufacturers and chambers as well.

Typically if you're not getting signs with (usually) soft hornady brass, you're probably not crazy high on pressure. I wouldn't be surprised if your second firing showed more speed/pressure though. Some of that energy usually gets used up blowing the shoulders forward on virgin wm brass.