Painless load development (mine)

[Formidilosus]

How could that be when carbon barrels are more expensive than steel barrels and they look so cool?

And all scopes work great.

 

[BigSky]

This thread has been interesting to me as the method and manner articulated and described by Formidilosus seems to be exactly what my Dad was doing when I was a kid learning the "basics" in the 70s. He may have not been doing it that way for the reasons articulated by Form; but, it is how he did it. As I ventured out on my own, I found the internet with all the tweaking techniques and processes and got "self smart".

If I'm honest with myself with my utilization and implementation of those "newer" techniques and looking back at my "load development" over the years I probably could have saved a lot of time and money. By way of example. I can look at targets from a load development day from a couple of years ago for my 280 AI. I can look at ten different targets (spots) of 5 round shots each (50 rounds total). I had 5 rounds each in one half grain increments of one powder for a total of 25 rounds and then another 5 rounds each in one half grain increments of another powder.

Every single one of those groups would have worked. Don't get me wrong, I've done the same thing with other rifles and powders that did not work. However, in all honesty and in those instances, if the combination was not going to work at all, I knew it right away.

 

[Formidilosus]

Trued the 112gr MatchBurner load at 982 yards. Guessed at 2,800fps MV.


The aiming point is the dark circle that the center crosshairs is on. Had a left to right wind, and I wanted to keep impacts on the right side to see them from my position. First shot was 1 mil right, held left 1 mil for next three. Only care about elevation, don’t care about wind. Impacts centered .1 mil low. It trued out to 2,775fps MV

 

[david2duck]

I’ve already made a few posts about trying @Formidilosus method with a few different rifles and it working really well. Just tried it again with a buddies .300w. My buddy ran a pressure test with ramshot magnum and 210vld’s. He went up by .3 grains for 10 different rounds and then he did a seating depth test of 3 shots at around 8-10 different depths going deeper by 3 thousandths I think. At the end of his test he still didn’t have anything shooting consistently under 1 1/4” at 100y for 3 shoots.

I loaded 5 rounds with H1000 and 208eldm’s in .5 increments from 76-78gr. Put the boat tail slightly below the shoulder neck junction. Had the slightest start of an ejector mark at 78. Loaded 5 at 77.5 and went back to the range. The 5 rounds looking for pressure shot 3/4” with maybe a 1/8” of elevation between them all. The next 3 at 77.5 moved the group just outside 3/4”. That’s 8 shot barely over 3/4” when he couldn’t get 3 shots to do that with the other combo and all the tinkering. The last 2 rounds we guessed velocity and shot at 578. 6” high of aiming point but only 2” of left to right and 1/2” of elevation between the two shots. Time to load up 30 or so and have some fun. If you are on the fence about this method pick a random gun and give it a shot. Thanks Form for making this thread and the info you put out. It’s definitely helped me.

 

[Axlrod]

How could that be when carbon barrels are more expensive than steel barrels and they look so cool?

It is likely due to the manufacturers turning the blank down too thin, then the carbon wrap distorts them. Bartlein uses a thicker steel barrel to begin with. Theirs are heavier, but the odds they will shoot are higher.

 

[dmike]

@Formidilosus for resizing do you mess with bumping the shoulder x amount, or follow the die instructions for set up? What's your process for setting the die?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus for resizing do you mess with bumping the shoulder x amount, or follow the die instructions for set up? What's your process for setting the die?

FL size following the instructions then make sure it chambers in every rifle I have for the cartridge.

 

[sickles107]

After many years of being on the fence, this thread inspired me to finally get into reloading. Grandfather gifted me a few hundred reloads before he passed so it only made sense.

Rcbs rebel press
Rcbs fl dies
Rcbs hand primer
Hornady Auto charge pro

These are my first rounds ever reloaded

308
LC 77 brass, this is its 3rd firing (my first)
168 eldm seated to 2.8 Coal
Tried two powders, working up to max, and like magic, one grain under max book... (it's .1 mil grid)

Thanks for all the help gents.

 

[wakedye]

This is my first time reloading. Previous to this thread being posted I loaded 3 each from min to max charge in .5 gr increments(54-58 grains). Gun is a tikka t3x in 270 Winchester. Powder is h4831sc, shooting 140 grain accubonds.

Previously I shot the 54 and 54.5 grain loads

Today I shot one of each charge from 55-58. And then a second each of 57, 57.5, and 58.
I did not notice any harder bolt lift from any loads as I went up. Some of the primers are a little flatter than others. I was looking for ejector marks and swipes but didn’t notice any other than a very narrow scratch like mark from what I assume is the ejector. This happened on most all of the loads and it happens with factory ammo I have shot.
I want some opinions from more experienced people to see if I load up 20 or so at max charge or if I am missing some pressure signs?

How much harder does the bolt lift get when pressures are getting high? Would it be fairly noticeable if I’m paying attention?

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[SamsonMan22]

wakedye all of my tikkas made that swipe out of the box. Chamber a round and eject it without firing you will see the swipe. It has always gone away after some use and the ejector starts to smooth up some. You will see a circle on the case head from a ejector mark, look closely at the picture Formidilosus posted on the previous page and you will see the small circle from the ejector on the highest charge. It’s right next to the 6 where it says 6XC

You will notice the bolt lift get heavier if you are even paying the slightest bit of attention, but I normally see the ejector mark before the bolt lift gets very sticky. If I have a noticeably heavy bolt lift then I have gone past a slight ejector mark.

 

[Tx_300wsm]

This and the recent Hornady podcast could have saved me a lot of time and money over the years. I couldn’t say how many times I’ve done the usual load development, found a three shot group that looked good, loaded a few more and had it open up was left scratching my head wondering where I went wrong.

Now I’m debating if I want to start back from scratch and try this. Previously I never saw pressure signs loading over book max in my 300wsm. Thinking I can probably get another 2-300fps out of a 180 accubond over the current load I recently settled on.

 

[CBB1]

Form, for clarification, you do not worry about barrel temp when shooting your 10 shot groups or trueing? Do you find your cold bore shots are consistent with your 10 shot zeroes?


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[jonandy]

I agree with Wakedye, Form give us some tips on what you’re looking for in pressure signs. I have a 7mm mag that flattens most primers. From light to max loads, there is little difference. I figure that this is not a good gauge of pressure, since when I change brands they tend to look different with the same load. I have been inspecting for ejector marks and I’m good there. Though it seems dirty around a few primers, though no ejector marks and bolt lift is normal. I would love to hear other’s experiences in pressure signs. Thanks

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, for clarification, you do not worry about barrel temp when shooting your 10 shot groups or trueing?

No. Unless the mirage off the barrel is causing an issue.

Do you find your cold bore shots are consistent with your 10 shot zeroes?

“Cold bore shift”, etc. is a myth in modern, properly stress relieved barrels. Cold shooter however is very real.

If you fire a 30 round group in one target at one aim point, regardless of firing rate, it will form a cone. Draw a circle around all rounds. From then on, between 95% and 99% of shots will fall in that circle, regardless of whether it is the first shot, or second, or 10th.

 

[Formidilosus]

I agree with Wakedye, Form give us some tips on what you’re looking for in pressure signs. I have a 7mm mag that flattens most primers. From light to max loads, there is little difference. I figure that this is not a good gauge of pressure, since when I change brands they tend to look different with the same load. I have been inspecting for ejector marks and I’m good there. Though it seems dirty around a few primers, though no ejector marks and bolt lift is normal. I would love to hear other’s experiences in pressure signs. Thanks

For you it sounds like flattened primers is not a good indicator for that rifle. So marks on the case head, bolt lift, and excessive MV would be the earliest signs of too ouch pressure.

 

[jonandy]

For you it sounds like flattened primers is not a good indicator for that rifle. So marks on the case head, bolt lift, and excessive MV would be the earliest signs of too ouch pressure.

Thanks for the response!!

 

[BryanL]

This is an amazing thread again! I used to do a similar strategy for load development and then started reading (again) too much internet processes. Next thing I know I’m annealing after each firing, cleaning brass, doing ladder loads, trimming and measuring each, debuting, cleaning primer pockets, etc. all the while I kept thinking “how much accuracy and consistency will I gain doing all this”. It made reloading less enjoyable that’s for sure. Will go back to the strategy outlined here and see how it goes. Only shooting 308, 30-06, and .223 in tikkas and M70s.

 

[Phil Anderson]

Form thank you for this excellent and enlightening BS-free tutorial.

A question regarding T3X D18 300wsm using 208 eldm out to 500m if you don’t mind? Hornady list the book max using H4350 as 62.6gn. Our local manufacturer, ADI, produce their (claimed) equivalent powder AR2209 with 60.7gn as book max - hopefully you have some experience with this stuff?

I started loading very conservatively at 56.5gn coming up in 0.6s achieving 0.94moa for 3 shots at 57.1gn @2600 fps.

Should I keep going, be content, or start again at a higher charge and go up?

Cheers
Phil

 

[Formidilosus]

Form thank you for this excellent and enlightening BS-free tutorial.

A question regarding T3X D18 300wsm using 208 eldm out to 500m if you don’t mind? Hornady list the book max using H4350 as 62.6gn. Our local manufacturer, ADI, produce their (claimed) equivalent powder AR2209 with 60.7gn as book max - hopefully you have some experience with this stuff?

I started loading very conservatively at 56.5gn coming up in 0.6s achieving 0.94moa for 3 shots at 57.1gn @2600 fps.

Should I keep going, be content, or start again at a higher charge and go up?

Cheers
Phil

That’s up to you. I would probably work up to near max loads and see how it shoots.

 

[Castle Rock]

ADI is usually pretty conservative, they list 2750 as a top velocity, I would work up to that without hesitation
2209 IS H4350