Painless load development (mine)

Formidilosus

Super Moderator
Shoot2HuntU
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
10,136
I have had multiple people ask me to lay out how I do load development being that what I do is different. Since Shaen @Shooter71 just rebarreled a Tikka 595 in 6XC I thought it would be easy to show how I do it. It’s a Master Sporter with a T3 lite profiled 20” barrel- keep in mind it is a T3 LITE barrel. So by conventional “wisdom” it should be more picky and less accurate than a heavy barrel. His work is shoddy (🙄), but I bet I can overcome it.

The rifle-
2A274DEF-FCB8-47DF-9B9A-4FD8592FA3E8.jpeg

First was @Unknown Munitions factory load with 105gr Berger Hybrids. 5 rounds to zero, 5 for a “group” at 114 yards-
66AD6BB8-97F5-4791-87B2-BA71C50C7AB2.jpeg

That’s about .7 moa for five. Slipped turret, then five rounds at 1050 yards to true on a 15” plate. First two rounds were to velocity correct, next three hit the plate. If I didn’t need to evaluate a different bullet I would have stopped, ordered 2,000 rounds from Jake and just shot. But I do need to evaluate a bullet, so…



“Load Development”



I don’t do 37 trick moves, I don’t play with seating depths in 5 thousandths, I don’t screw wirh .1 grain powder increments, I don’t try six different powder types, and three different primers, etc. I pick the bullet I want to shoot, a case, a decent primer, a near max load, and seat the bullet to fit magazines, just kiss the lands, or as in this case to seat the bullet so the boatail is at the shoulder/neck junction of the case. For this gun components are hard to find. I was able to get IMR 4166 which is good for the mid bore 6mm’s, the bullet is a 115gr DTAC with Nosering. The cases are Peterson SRP, primer is Federal 205.

I loaded one round at max charge, shot it-
CC641381-A368-420E-AFF7-D9C697E6748A.jpeg

Not bad, just a slight ejector mark. Dropped .5 grains, loaded twenty, went to group.

3 rounds to get on paper, then ten rounds at 114 yards for the first group-
DFAE5C3C-4037-4FB3-95CB-8131E1FC630C.jpeg

.72 moa.

One round after slipping turrets, 6 rounds at 1050 yards for trueing. Velocity is 2,830fps.



So we’re at 15 rounds of a factory non tailored load, and 21 rounds for a “random” picked load to get sub moa for ten rounds and trued past 1,000 yards. 21 rounds and done. This is literally what I do for every rifle. Either the rifle and load shoots or it doesn’t.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
2,731
Let's say your first load doesn't produce satisfactory results.

What aspects of the load do you change and in what order?And at what point do you completely swap out one of the components (bullet or powder, etc)?
 

5MilesBack

"DADDY"
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
16,174
Location
Colorado Springs
21 rounds and done. This is literally what I do for every rifle. Either the rifle and load shoots or it doesn’t.

"But........what if I can change things up and get that .72 moa down to half that?"

That's where I always end up........with every hobby. It's also like elk hunting........"well, this spot looks great.......but what's over that next ridge"?
 
OP
Formidilosus

Formidilosus

Super Moderator
Shoot2HuntU
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
10,136
Let's say your first load doesn't produce satisfactory results.

What aspects of the load do you change and in what order?And at what point do you completely swap out one of the components (bullet or powder, etc)?


For this gun I needed about 1-1.1 moa. Had this load shot over that I would have changed powder by 1 grain then reshot it. If it didn’t meet what I needed then I would ha e changed powder completely. Any load that needs to be tweaked with small powder weight changes, incremental seating depth changes, or only a certain primer, etc- that stuff doesn’t make a difference. It only seems to due to small sample sizes and if you tested the exact combo again, a different load/length/etc would come out on top. IF the load is that picky, it’s going to be finicky and you’ll be chasing your tail with it. Screw that


If you'd clean out that carbon ring you'd have a 1/2 MOA rifle

No doubt.
 

Vern400

WKR
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
495
I can back off 1 grain from Max on the powders I shoot, kiss the lands, and start shooting with an awful lot of rifles. People think it's magic but it's not. I neck turn just to maybe 75% cleanup, which simply removes the high spots that shoves the case off center in the bore. No more. So I'm making super concentric cartridges. I got 1 powder that tightens up ES as the charge increases. Just stop when it gets scary. I can seat deeper and ignore bullet jump and they shoot crappy.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
8,071
Location
S. UTAH
Do you always load up one at book max and fire it to look for pressure? Have you ever had and serious over pressure incidents doing that?

I feel like I should be less worried about pressure as long as I’m not going over the book max. I feel like I waste a lot of time and components starting near book minimums.

Im still new at reloading. Just starting my 2nd rifle. I have about 50 rounds down it playing with charge weight and seating depth and still have not found a good load.
 
Last edited:

Vern400

WKR
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
495
I’m of the opinion that a lot of the tweaking people do is bullshit and not repeatable day to day.

Using a known load, with a known bullet makes it really easy. Atleast for what I have loaded for.

Your process makes sense
Mostly agree. The number of shooters who can come to my place and shoot 4 or 5 groups like they claim? including the cold shot? And real 5 shot groups? That are really on target? Maybe 2 out of many. I don't care even if they use a lead sled. One buddy specializes in cold shots and collecting twenty's from guys who dont know him. It's hilarious. But when a guy pulls out a beat up rifle with a cardboard and black tape cheek piece, and you notice it's a nasty green Steyr SSG.... Don't bet.
 

Joshf303*

WKR
Joined
Oct 19, 2021
Messages
314
I have had multiple people ask me to lay out how I do load development being that what I do is different. Since Shaen @Shooter71 just rebarreled a Tikka 595 in 6XC I thought it would be easy to show how I do it. It’s a Master Sporter with a T3 lite profiled 20” barrel- keep in mind it is a T3 LITE barrel. So by conventional “wisdom” it should be more picky and less accurate than a heavy barrel. His work is shoddy (🙄), but I bet I can overcome it.

The rifle-
View attachment 339906

First was @Unknown Munitions factory load with 105gr Berger Hybrids. 5 rounds to zero, 5 for a “group” at 114 yards-
View attachment 339908

That’s about .7 moa for five. Slipped turret, then five rounds at 1050 yards to true on a 15” plate. First two rounds were to velocity correct, next three hit the plate. If I didn’t need to evaluate a different bullet I would have stopped, ordered 2,000 rounds from Jake and just shot. But I do need to evaluate a bullet, so…



“Load Development”



I don’t do 37 trick moves, I don’t play with seating depths in 5 thousandths, I don’t screw wirh .1 grain powder increments, I don’t try six different powder types, and three different primers, etc. I pick the bullet I want to shoot, a case, a decent primer, a near max load, and seat the bullet to fit magazines, just kiss the lands, or as in this case to seat the bullet so the boatail is at the shoulder/neck junction of the case. For this gun components are hard to find. I was able to get IMR 4166 which is good for the mid bore 6mm’s, the bullet is a 115gr DTAC with Nosering. The cases are Peterson SRP, primer is Federal 205.

I loaded one round at max charge, shot it-
View attachment 340021

Not bad, just a slight ejector mark. Dropped .5 grains, loaded twenty, went to group.

3 rounds to get on paper, then ten rounds at 114 yards for the first group-
View attachment 340032

.72 moa.

One round after slipping turrets, 6 rounds at 1050 yards for trueing. Velocity is 2,830fps.



So we’re at 15 rounds of a factory non tailored load, and 21 rounds for a “random” picked load to get sub moa for ten rounds and trued past 1,000 yards. 21 rounds and done. This is literally what I do for every rifle. Either the rifle and load shoots or it doesn’t.

Agreed... people make it way harder than it is with the mental gymnastics. Not quite the same process but my load development is done within 10-12 rounds.

Pays to have a good ‘smith too. Just don’t go getting his head too big...
 
Last edited:

Lawnboi

WKR
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
8,394
Location
North Central Wi
Mostly agree. The number of shooters who can come to my place and shoot 4 or 5 groups like they claim? including the cold shot? And real 5 shot groups? That are really on target? Maybe 2 out of many. I don't care even if they use a lead sled. One buddy specializes in cold shots and collecting twenty's from guys who dont know him. It's hilarious. But when a guy pulls out a beat up rifle with a cardboard and black tape cheek piece, and you notice it's a nasty green Steyr SSG.... Don't bet.

Agreed with what most can do. A couple buddies that I load for took a while to get through their head that consistent .5 moa groups from an 8 pound, factory barrel, hunting rifle just is not realistic.

Last two rifles I loaded for went similar to form, but I work up to pressure with around 10 shots. Load at a velocity and pressure I like with 10-20 and see what it does. In both tikkas I’m referencing above it’s produced consistent 1-1.25 minute groups. No reason that would hold anyone back from their 400 yard max.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
2,731
Agreed with what most can do. A couple buddies that I load for took a while to get through their head that consistent .5 moa groups from an 8 pound, factory barrel, hunting rifle just is not realistic.

Last two rifles I loaded for went similar to form, but I work up to pressure with around 10 shots. Load at a velocity and pressure I like with 10-20 and see what it does. In both tikkas I’m referencing above it’s produced consistent 1-1.25 minute groups. No reason that would hold anyone back from their 400 yard max.

A big question for me is are you and Form ignoring velocity spreads? Form was shooting these out to 1000... Maybe to verify the velocity spread isn't horrible?

I really want to shrink my load development down to 20 rounds. That would give me 80 more rounds per pound haha
 

PNWGATOR

WKR
Shoot2HuntU
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
2,744
Location
USA
Stunt shooter…

Good stuff! Keeping it simple and focusing on what really matters. Well done and thanks for sharing.
 
OP
Formidilosus

Formidilosus

Super Moderator
Shoot2HuntU
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
10,136
A big question for me is are you and Form ignoring velocity spreads? Form was shooting these out to 1000... Maybe to verify the velocity spread isn't horrible?

I don’t really pay attention to velocity ES or SD. If it groups well at 100 and it groups well at distance- whatever distance that is, than it really doesn’t matter with the ES/SD is.
 

Lawnboi

WKR
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
8,394
Location
North Central Wi
A big question for me is are you and Form ignoring velocity spreads? Form was shooting these out to 1000... Maybe to verify the velocity spread isn't horrible?

I really want to shrink my load development down to 20 rounds. That would give me 80 more rounds per pound haha
For the above loads yes. SD and ES within reason, isn’t going to mean a lick at the distances these rifles are going to be utilized. On top of that I also believe it’s just how much the rifle likes the load along with case fill. One of the rifles averaged 40 for an ES. One of them 10. The gun either likes the combination or it dosnt.

If I were looking for a node I’d be spending multiple range sessions, along with a lot of components to try to shrink it. Will it make a difference for mid range shooting? Probably not. I can bet both of the above shooter I loaded for got more out of shooting those 100 rounds at distance in different positions than they would chasing little groups and single digit SDs.
 

Joshf303*

WKR
Joined
Oct 19, 2021
Messages
314
For the above loads yes. SD and ES within reason, isn’t going to mean a lick at the distances these rifles are going to be utilized. On top of that I also believe it’s just how much the rifle likes the load along with case fill. One of the rifles averaged 40 for an ES. One of them 10. The gun either likes the combination or it dosnt.

If I were looking for a node I’d be spending multiple range sessions, along with a lot of components to try to shrink it. Will it make a difference for mid range shooting? Probably not. I can bet both of the above shooter I loaded for got more out of shooting those 100 rounds at distance in different positions than they would chasing little groups and single digit SDs.
Agreed on the difference it makes for mid range shooting...and the chase for single digit ES/SDs.

But flat spots in velocities (nodes) aren’t that hard to find with a quality chrono. A known seating depth window that works, 8-10 shot string (if it’s an unknown round) in 1/2gr increments, split the flat spot and load. Confirm velocity at 4-600 depending on muzzle velocity and then true BC up at extended ranges. It works on everything from 7lb mountain rifles to 25lb match rifles. Crazy to hear or read guys 300 rounds into load development on a new barrel...
 

Lawnboi

WKR
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
8,394
Location
North Central Wi
Agreed on the difference it makes for mid range shooting...and the chase for single digit ES/SDs.

But flat spots in velocities (nodes) aren’t that hard to find with a quality chrono. A known seating depth window that works, 8-10 shot string (if it’s an unknown round) in 1/2gr increments, split the flat spot and load. Confirm velocity at 4-600 depending on muzzle velocity and then true BC up at extended ranges. It works on everything from 7lb mountain rifles to 25lb match rifles. Crazy to hear or read guys 300 rounds into load development on a new barrel...
I have played with powder charges and seating looking for nodes. Finding something is easy, repeating it can get difficult, especially as round count rises.
 
Top