Painless load development (mine)

[huntnful]

I suppose I must now track down some VV. Thanks guys

It’s currently cheaper than Hogdon also. Which has only recently been the case. VV used to be more expensive. But Hogdon increased their prices quite a bit, and VV stayed the same.

 

[wind gypsy]

It’s currently cheaper than Hogdon also. Which has only recently been the case. VV used to be more expensive. But Hogdon increased their prices quite a bit, and VV stayed the same.

VV was supposed to have a price hike in August, haven't priced any since but I expected it to be back in line or more expensive than hodgdon.

 

[justin davis]

I’ve been using N555 in place of H4350. I find it gives me a better case fill. Accuracy seems to be great! Also is lower ES and SD with it co pared to H4350

 

[huntnful]

VV was supposed to have a price hike in August, haven't priced any since but I expected it to be back in line or more expensive than hodgdon.

I actually haven’t checked recently. I bought 60lbs of it two months ago and it was a pretty substantial savings over Hogdon at the time

 

[huntnful]

I’ve been using N555 in place of H4350. I find it gives me a better case fill. Accuracy seems to be great! Also seems like loser ES and SD with it co pared to H4350

I noticed the same exact thing in my 22CM. Ended up at the same speeds, with tighter velocity numbers.

 

[RockAndSage]

I actually haven’t checked recently. I bought 60lbs of it two months ago and it was a pretty substantial savings over Hogdon at the time

Out of curiosity, are you buying most of this in the 8lb jugs, or would there be some utility reason to get 1 pound jugs?

 

[huntnful]

Out of curiosity, are you buying most of this in the 8lb jugs, or would there be some utility reason to get 1 pound jugs?

I bought all 8lbers. So it was 64lbs. I only get 1lb jugs for a new powder I want to test, or
If I need powder and 8lbers aren’t available at that time.

 

[wind gypsy]

Out of curiosity, are you buying most of this in the 8lb jugs, or would there be some utility reason to get 1 pound jugs?

If i could get same lot and per # pricing (usually cant) I'd prefer the 1#ers. I like the idea of the powder can being sealed until i open that specific #. Some 8ers can sit around a long time after opening if it ends up being a powder you dont end up using as much as you thought you would. I have in the past had issues with powder that got left out in the chargemaster hopper too long and exposed to humidity - dont have to worry about that getting mixed with 7 # of good powder if its from a 1# can. I also effed up and dumped XBR in a half full 1# H4350 can once. Would suck if you did that into a nearly full 8# jug!

 

[Bueller]

New to forum. Stumbled upon this thread on a Google search.

Awesome stuff.

About 15 years back got serious into LR shooting. First with .308, then onto .300WM. The amount of money and time I tossed downrange was ridiculous. I enjoyed it…at first…but it then became a PITA. After all the messing I did with that .308 initially, I ended up basically back to the M118LR loading. (175smk/Varget or RL15). Took a pre-retirement break from shooting but now I’m back. I’ve become an impatient old fart, so I appreciate this thread.

Hope to hang around a bit, enjoy a cocktail or two while reading, and pick up where I left off…without the endless 5 shot groups.

 

[rdp123]

I came across this article that folks on this thread might find interesting, about a top-level PRS shooter who reloads on a Lee turret and has a long list of things he says doesn't matter a short list of things that do. His process is more involved than the Painless Load Dev Method, but it hits a lot of the same themes.

"My thought is that load development might matter in some scenarios, but we’re using very heavy barrels and very high-quality components. Those are the two things that I think matter a lot. Because we are using such heavy and high-quality barrels, and I’m using such good bullets, brass, and powder, I think even the worst load I could possibly come up with for a 6 Dasher would still be good enough to win PRS matches."

The PRS Champ’s Load Data & Reloading Process – Austin Buschman Shooter Spotlight Part 3

This article is part of a series that is taking a deep dive with 6 of the very best precision rifle...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[AKmatt]

After listening to the Hornady podcast on load develop and then finding this thread and reading through it I decided to give @Formidilosus load development method a try.

I got tired of the classic load 3-5 at 0.3 grain increments and then mess with seat depth.

Loaded one at book max then dropped 0.5 and loaded 20 for a group. Picked a random seating depth (just short of mag length).

Tikka 6.5 creed with a benchmark 20 inch barrel. 143 eldx, 147 eldm, and 130 TMK. Not sure what happened with the shot of 4 of eldx but I’m happy with all results. The flyers are book maxes of each projectile. Except for one of the eldm

 

[Chet707]

Awesome thread! I stumbled upon it by accident but being very novice at reloading, it seemed simple and made sense.

I started in August with some 73 eldms and 23.5 gr of varget seated at mag length. 23.5 being under max and it printed 10 rounds at 1.1 I didn't see a reason to change.

So far I've shot one wt doe, 5 coyotes and a fox ranging from 25 to 300 yds with that combo.

The guy that is letting me use his equipment and "teaching" me likes the standard way of reloading. Lots of time and components spent in the process. Works great for him, but I prefer shooting rather than loading so the least amount of time doing that is better for me.

Finally got some 77 tmks. Loaded one round each at 23, 23.5, 24 and 24.5 gr of varget. No pressure signs on any of them. Loaded 20 rounds with 24 gr at mag length.

I haven't gotten around to trueing velocity yet but I have shot 10 rounds on paper. Worked as expected, fired one round to check approx zero and adjusted .1 up and .2 right, wasnt necessary.. turns out its the same zero as the 73 eldm combo.

9 rounds right at 1.5" with the first 8 being right at 1"... good enough for my 400 yd max range (my comfortable ability).

My apologies for the long post. Just wanted to share my experience.

 

[Chet707]

Question for @Formidilosus. if my max effective range with the 223 is 400 yds with my shooting ability being the limiting factor, should I validate velocity at longer range or is there a downside to only truing at 400 yds? Reason being is that i feel much more confident that my ability at that range won't necessarily be the weak link. If it makes more sense to validate at longer ranges im all for it. With my guesstimate mv being around 2550, that puts me around 1500ish at 550.

 

[Formidilosus]

Question for @Formidilosus. if my max effective range with the 223 is 400 yds with my shooting ability being the limiting factor, should I validate velocity at longer range or is there a downside to only truing at 400 yds? Reason being is that i feel much more confident that my ability at that range won't necessarily be the weak link. If it makes more sense to validate at longer ranges im all for it. With my guesstimate mv being around 2550, that puts me around 1500ish at 550.

I would true at the farthest distance I could without wind as you will get better overall data.

 

[Chet707]

Great, thanks for the response!

 

[Alpha Echo]

As a relative newbie to the long range game, is there a thread that focus on truing at long range? Im assuming the best method is putting paper out as far as possible and verifying your impact, but after that i get lost. Do you then fiddle with your BC until your dope chart matches the actual results? Something else? Don't want to hijack this thread so any links to relevant threads are welcome.

 

[Castle Rock]

BCs are well established these days, you true the velocity.This is a screenshot from Shooter that’s the truing page.

 

[Carl Ross]

As a relative newbie to the long range game, is there a thread that focus on truing at long range? Im assuming the best method is putting paper out as far as possible and verifying your impact, but after that i get lost. Do you then fiddle with your BC until your dope chart matches the actual results? Something else? Don't want to hijack this thread so any links to relevant threads are welcome.

If I have a GOOD chrono (Garmin, Labradar, Magnetospeed, Ohler) I trust the velocity and true the BC. If you have to move a CDM more than a few percent, I'd double check the rest of your inputs, they're usually pretty good.

If I'm not using one of the chrono's listed above, I trust the BC and true the velocity.

 

[Alpha Echo]

Yeah, I have a Garmin, and this is exactly the point where I've gotten confused. I've heard both before - true the velocity vs true the bc. I could never understand truing the velocity when I have actual hard data from my rifle, whereas BCs are published and I've heard on more than one occasion inflated.

 

[Castle Rock]

Over hunting distances as long as you are truing it probably doesn’t matter, however the ballistic aps make it easier to use the velocity solution.
It’s also far more common to get accurate BCs now than in the past.