Packgoats and Predators

[406RoadToad]

It’s my first year out with my goats. I love almost everything about them EXCEPT I’m finding my success in archery hunting with them seems to be below average. In my experience they were less than helpful and I preferred not having them on my hip while trying to call in elk.

Everything I’ve seen says to never leave goats at camp.

I can only speak for my experience but leaving them worked great. I packed in an electric fence and for four days they stayed at camp with little to no issues. When I would leave in the morning they would cry as I went out of sight for 5 to 10 minutes before calming down.

I’m sure we have all heard the Warnke story about his goats getting chased by a bear through his e-fence. Was that just a one off event that put out the “never leave your goats” rule? Are goats just a magnet for all predators always?

I’d love to hear some additional first hand experiences with predators in the backcountry or hear from other guys who have experience leaving goats at camp!

 

[Bachto]

Are goats just a magnet for all predators always?

They are a prey animal that is smaller than a deer, so kinda yeah.

A crying goat just has to be a predator call. I just don't think I want to risk all the hard work and training and everything to having a cougar or bear come take one out especially if I'm in super deep into the back country. I also love my goats more than my dogs and just can't leave that to chance.

You may not have bighorns in your area. A lot of areas are shutting down goat packing due to "possible" bighorn sheep disease transmission. A loose goat is fuel for that fire and is the other huge reason it is suggested not to leave your goats.

I had a similar experience archery elk hunting. What I found works best is have a partner with you. Tie up the goats 50 - 100 yards back and have him call. Just rotate this. I haven't found the trick for solo archery hunting yet.

Have you thought about switching to llamas? I am not trying to be a dick but in all honesty if you can't bring your goats with you or work around that I think you should really look at getting 2 llamas instead.

 

[406RoadToad]

They are a prey animal that is smaller than a deer, so kinda yeah.

A crying goat just has to be a predator call. I just don't think I want to risk all the hard work and training and everything to having a cougar or bear come take one out especially if I'm in super deep into the back country. I also love my goats more than my dogs and just can't leave that to chance.

You may not have bighorns in your area. A lot of areas are shutting down goat packing due to "possible" bighorn sheep disease transmission. A loose goat is fuel for that fire and is the other huge reason it is suggested not to leave your goats.

I had a similar experience archery elk hunting. What I found works best is have a partner with you. Tie up the goats 50 - 100 yards back and have him call. Just rotate this. I haven't found the trick for solo archery hunting yet.

Have you thought about switching to llamas? I am not trying to be a dick but in all honesty if you can't bring your goats with you or work around that I think you should really look at getting 2 llamas instead.

I definitely have thought of llamas but at the moment I’m still loving my goats. Hadn’t thought about the black eye to goat packers a loose goat would be though! Absolutely don’t want to contribute to the anti goat stuff.

I’ve got 6 goats total and after 3 years I don’t think I’ll be able to switch to a different pack animal. They are perfect for my kiddos and I love everything apart from the solo archery issue.

 

[Ryan Avery]

With no issues, I've left my goats for half and full days in very high-density predator areas. Could a predator come in and kill your goats, yes? Is it the problem people claim.. haven't seen it with lots of time in Grizzly, BB, Cat, and Wolf country.

 

[Bachto]

With no issues, I've left my goats for half and full days in very high-density predator areas. Could a predator come in and kill your goats, yes? Is it the problem people claim.. haven't seen it with lots of time in Grizzly, BB, Cat, and Wolf country.

Lol maybe I am just paranoid I guess.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Lol maybe I am just paranoid I guess.

I have a friend who plays a little probable AM/FM radio when he is gone from his goats.

 

[Legend]

With no issues, I've left my goats for half and full days in very high-density predator areas. Could a predator come in and kill your goats, yes? Is it the problem people claim.. haven't seen it with lots of time in Grizzly, BB, Cat, and Wolf country.

Same

 

[406RoadToad]

I have a friend who plays a little probable AM/FM radio when he is gone from his goats.

I was thinking of making a scare crow contraption with my hike in clothes but I like this idea way more!

 

[GoatPackr]

Don't leave them.
The last thing we need is goats getting away and getting lost. We've got enough working against us. Take an extra buddy to stay with them or handle them when calling.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I have a friend who plays a little probable AM/FM radio when he is gone from his goats.

This is what we used to do when using livestock on hunting trips. Whether horses, mules, or goats it’s like white noise for them and keeps them calm. We would play it all night as well and sleep to it. Used it for an alarm to wake us up in the morning before phones. Bring extra batteries for it.

 

[nphunter]

IMO pack goats work awesome when elk hunting. I didn’t like them deer hunting but called in multiple bulls and walked up on several with goats. We all walked up to 20 yards from a bedded 270” 6x6 I could have shot and had a 5 point walk out and look at the goats at 10 yards multiple times and we kept walking toward him and he didn’t care. Called in two smaller rag horns right to the goats with two of us standing there and called a nice mature 6x6 right to them the same night that a buddy missed.
I call a lot though and the goats would be snapping twigs and raking trees like elk. The mature 6 was with 2 other 6 point bulls, they saw us walking and alarm barked. I barked back and let the goats feed and the bulls would go back to feeding, I’d walk some more with the goats and eventfully the bulls would see me and bark. I’d bark back and cow call and freeze while the goats feed around and eventually the elk would feed again. We were able to walk right past the two smaller bulls doing this and got close to the bigger bull and when he saw the goats he came in on a string to 40 where my buddy missed.

I also had them in tow without saddles, so they just looked like another animal walking around but with an orange collar.

 

[squirrel]

IMO pack goats work awesome when elk hunting. I didn’t like them deer hunting but called in multiple bulls and walked up on several with goats. We all walked up to 20 yards from a bedded 270” 6x6 I could have shot and had a 5 point walk out and look at the goats at 10 yards multiple times and we kept walking toward him and he didn’t care. Called in two smaller rag horns right to the goats with two of us standing there and called a nice mature 6x6 right to them the same night that a buddy missed.
I call a lot though and the goats would be snapping twigs and raking trees like elk. The mature 6 was with 2 other 6 point bulls, they saw us walking and alarm barked. I barked back and let the goats feed and the bulls would go back to feeding, I’d walk some more with the goats and eventfully the bulls would see me and bark. I’d bark back and cow call and freeze while the goats feed around and eventually the elk would feed again. We were able to walk right past the two smaller bulls doing this and got close to the bigger bull and when he saw the goats he came in on a string to 40 where my buddy missed.

I also had them in tow without saddles, so they just looked like another animal walking around but with an orange collar.

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I was about to ask if he was making an issue out of nothing. Ive had elk come right in amongst tethered llamas and bugle while scent checking them. Not just during the rut either, sometimes they will wander in on red alert barking and mewing while the llamas alarm chuckle and pace nervously on their tethers. I have shot elk while leading llamas and seen too many to count at reasonable rifle range (<100 yards) while leading strings of llamas. Inside of 40 yards is a different story, though there have been a few times in daylight hours.

 

[406RoadToad]

I ended up e-fencing them for a few days and it improved my hunting tremendously. I was optimistic that their hooved behavior would help as camouflage but it wasn’t the case in my high pressure area. I had some calves come in to check them out but any bulls that got within eye sight simply stopped approaching and stared. I also did not have packs on and they were simply milling around eating and raking. I suspect the high pressure had the elk more cautious?

While packing in I did crest a hill with a large 6 point standing in his bed 50 yards away. He stood there for maybe a minute or two just looking at me before slowly turning and walking away.

My experience with calling elk with goats is simply that it makes a difficult task more difficult.

 

[Bachto]

I have now killed 2 bucks (with a rifle) while he was staring at my goats. This year it was at like 90 yards. The buck saw them and could care less and we walked by multiple does under 150 yards. Not sure if I would be able to get into bow range for deer but my conclusion with deer is they definitely make them think twice before spooking at a minimum and often times they don't care.

 

[washingtonalpine]

Some good discussion here-my experience trying to call archery elk solo with goats in high pressure areas is the goats will give up your location at times that aren't always ideal. I've had a bull or two spook from the goats and had the goats call them in raking trees when I wasn't ready. I've heard plenty of stories where goats helped a bull to commit but not always the case. Last couple years I've gone more spot and stalk, that's easy just tie em up and move in. Rifle hunting they rarely spook game, usually the opposite and I've shot quite a few animals with loose goats milling around me. As far as predators it does happen, although not super often. Last year in Montana had a wolf come stalking in on them, fortunately we were 10 yards from the goats, wolf split faster than we could draw sidearms when he came over the rise at 30 yards and saw us near the goats. Glad I wasn't stalking elk that night! Also had to dispatch a black bear with a sidearm on a summer scouting trip about 6 years ago that was determined it wanted a goat for lunch. Never had any issues at night, I try to tie them in a spot I can at least glass em when I'm solo while I make a stalk. Certainly a risk a predator could get a goat but its just part of it in my opinion. When you tie them up for stalks make sure your leashes, collars ect are stout and practice it with them. My boys are experienced and know how not to tangle a leash and literally hardly make a peep when I walk away because they know I'm coming back. If you can place your camp at a glassing point, the goats will view it as 'home' after a day or so and will be much more relaxed tied there than in some random spot. Be aware how and where you tie the younger/ less experienced goats, had a new goat hang himself and was blacked out when my hunting partner found him after I left him tied on a slope, fortunately he got back just in time to save him. At least for my large boys with horns, loose dogs and coyotes aren't an issue and they have deterred both on their own several times.

 

[goathunter.oregon]

We hunted with packgoats for about 15 years and our standard procedure was to highline them in camp while we were out hunting. We only had a predator problem once and that was a black bear who tore up our camp looking for food. The goats were highlined right there in camp and the bear wasn't interested in them (granted, it wasn't a big bear either).

For a highline to work successfully, the goats need to be far enough apart that they can't get their lead ropes tangled up and they can't pull down the highline to the point where they can get the lead rope tangled around their legs. They also need to be on more or less flat ground, not a hillside. I can't really imagine leaving them loose inside an electric fence. My goats were never deterred by the electricity.

In the evening, we would take them glassing with us and many times we had does walk right up to the goats. Elk never seemed to be comfortable around goats.

We hunt with llamas now and we leave them in camp while we're out hunting. Rather than highlining them, we use ground stakes with a long lead rope or tie them to a tree or log. With the right goats, ground stakes could work, but mine would just pull on the stakes until they pulled out.