Pack warranties

[EsteemGrinders]

Well I can say I am not surprised one bit by Kuiu's warranty. I will never own there gear period. Personally there is Way to many things about there business practices I don't agree with.


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[MT_Wyatt]

I've warrantied plenty through Kuiu, they've always been stand up about it. But I've dealt with Dallas each time. I think it makes a lot of sense for the warranty to "follow" the product on these high end packs like MR, SG, Kifaru, Exo, SO. Hell MR seems to fix anything with their name you could possibly break. But Kuiu isn't high end like those, brands, they are semi-mass produced. Comparing how Exo and Kuiu treat a warranty doesn't seem realistic from a business/volume sense. BUT In my experience Sitka doesn't follow that logic; they are big and deal with warranties a lot like Patagonia. My point being, maybe Kuiu should get with the program and worry more about taking care of people - but I'm not going to tell them how to run their business, and see them not wanting to deal with second hand gear repairs. If we're going to start lambasting their business practices, it would be useful to avoid generalization and stick to concrete examples. Which are probably best left for another sacrificial thread that will get nuked (rightfully so).


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[Frito]

I like McHale's guarantee.

 

[wyelkhunter]

I can't believe kuiu won't even warranty their products sold in the outlet(discontinued). they are sold at a discount but not that much of one. No way would I buy from outlet.

 

[Jordan Budd]

I just went through this with a friend of mine. He bought a used Kuiu pack of mine a few years ago and last year put 80lbs of deer in it and it broke. Bottom of the frame visible cracked like an inch. Called customer service and since he didn't buy the pack direct they wouldn't fix it. He ended up writing a bad review on Facebook about it and they then replaced the pack. Makes zero sense to me why their warranty sucks. One of the reasons I'm now fairly anti Kuiu.

Made the switch to Kifaru and I no longer have to worry about if a frame will break. And if I slam a buckle in a door or something they'll have a new one to me right away, without having to go round and round in circles on the phone.


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[rockmail2]

Were you just inquiring with the company or is there an actual problem with your pack?

I'm deciding between packs and this can impact my decision. I only know of one hunting pack company that has a now questions lifetime warranty...even if you bought it at a yard sale but they don't have the kind of pack I want. I must admit that I feel that "premium" pack companies should stand behind their manufacturer defect warranty regardless of second hand owner situation. Sorry for delay in my response, I thought my post had been taken down...I'm unable to locate it.

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[rockmail2]

So, which company are we talking about? Is there a reason why we can't know?

Sorry for the delayed response...thought my post had been removed. I just didn't want to do anything to cause a specific company to look bad. I've narrowed it down to two companies and the responses I'm seeing here are helping. I have my opinions but I'm open minded.

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[rockmail2]

Totally agree. For people who disagree, why would you expect a company to serve anyone other than their customers? Please explain that to me please.

Just seems to me that the "lifetime warranty" is used as a marketing tool to speak to the quality of their packs...if that is the case, what does it matter if I'm the second owner of a 1-2 year old pack? Maybe the warranty should be more realistic, like a 5 year regardless of second hand ownership.

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[LBFowler]

I go back and forth on this, on the one hand it is easy to argue that someone is "selling" their interest/rights in the warranty when they sell you their used gear, but I think it is perfectly reasonable for a company to want to encourage direct sales. Most places these days will bend over backwards for good customers whatever the warranty says on paper, but for their sake they like to have an "out" because there are people blatantly taking advantage.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

Just seems to me that the "lifetime warranty" is used as a marketing tool to speak to the quality of their packs...if that is the case, what does it matter if I'm the second owner of a 1-2 year old pack? Maybe the warranty should be more realistic, like a 5 year regardless of second hand ownership.

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I get your point, but what I still do not understand is how a business should cater to a non-customer. Can you please explain that? Can you please explain how a business should spend money on someone who has not spent money on their products?

Anyone in business could care less about parties outside of their marketing mix. They would not be interested in the used product buyer because that buyer never gave their business any money, other than some ancillary benefit of better resale value allowing for a higher initial price. Sure, a strong product would speak for itself, but the best warranty is the one you never use.

I have another question to everyone then, would a warranty change your purchase decision. I mean, would you buy a Hyundai which has a huge warranty instead of a Ferrari, which only has a 1 year warranty? How important is a warranty really?

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

I get your point, but what I still do not understand is how a business should cater to a non-customer. Can you please explain that? Can you please explain how a business should spend money on someone who has not spent money on their products?

Anyone in business could care less about parties outside of their marketing mix. They would not be interested in the used product buyer because that buyer never gave their business any money, other than some ancillary benefit of better resale value allowing for a higher initial price. Sure, a strong product would speak for itself, but the best warranty is the one you never use.

I have another question to everyone then, would a warranty change your purchase decision. I mean, would you buy a Hyundai which has a huge warranty instead of a Ferrari, which only has a 1 year warranty? How important is a warranty really?

If I buy a pack for you, who is the customer? Should they warranty the pack gifted to you? The customer is the one using the product imo. Who paid for it last is irrelevant as it's not as if the company didn't get paid.

Yes warranty absolutely affects my decision.

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[tipsntails7]

Which of the above warranties make you believe that the manufacturer truly believes in their product? Also which warranties do you feel keep resale up?

Dot, I get where your going but warranties like kifaru's are the minority.
I personally don't buy things for resale value but I am sure some do, and transferable warranties absolutely do bolster resale values.

It's also not entirely accurate, as I've had experience where I had to pay for something I didn't consider normal wear and tear. I've also payed shipping on items for warranty as well. Both those events cost me more money through no fault of my own.


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[tipsntails7]

I get your point, but what I still do not understand is how a business should cater to a non-customer. Can you please explain that? Can you please explain how a business should spend money on someone who has not spent money on their products?

Anyone in business could care less about parties outside of their marketing mix. They would not be interested in the used product buyer because that buyer never gave their business any money, other than some ancillary benefit of better resale value allowing for a higher initial price. Sure, a strong product would speak for itself, but the best warranty is the one you never use.

I have another question to everyone then, would a warranty change your purchase decision. I mean, would you buy a Hyundai which has a huge warranty instead of a Ferrari, which only has a 1 year warranty? How important is a warranty really?

Future business is why.
Vortex no fault guarantee is what got them a solid foothold in the optics world.



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[alexanderg23]

I think the logic that a used buyer isn't a customer of the brand is totally flawed. I'm also sick of this disposable goods era. Companies should value the next buyer as much as the 1st. They make their $ off the # of goods they can put into the market. Have a strong secondary market because of quality, longevity and warranty only helps the primary market.

I get your point, but what I still do not understand is how a business should cater to a non-customer. Can you please explain that? Can you please explain how a business should spend money on someone who has not spent money on their products?

Anyone in business could care less about parties outside of their marketing mix. They would not be interested in the used product buyer because that buyer never gave their business any money, other than some ancillary benefit of better resale value allowing for a higher initial price. Sure, a strong product would speak for itself, but the best warranty is the one you never use.

I have another question to everyone then, would a warranty change your purchase decision. I mean, would you buy a Hyundai which has a huge warranty instead of a Ferrari, which only has a 1 year warranty? How important is a warranty really?

 

[twall13]

I get your point, but what I still do not understand is how a business should cater to a non-customer. Can you please explain that? Can you please explain how a business should spend money on someone who has not spent money on their products?

Anyone in business could care less about parties outside of their marketing mix. They would not be interested in the used product buyer because that buyer never gave their business any money, other than some ancillary benefit of better resale value allowing for a higher initial price. Sure, a strong product would speak for itself, but the best warranty is the one you never use.

I have another question to everyone then, would a warranty change your purchase decision. I mean, would you buy a Hyundai which has a huge warranty instead of a Ferrari, which only has a 1 year warranty? How important is a warranty really?

My take is it's a smart move to warranty it to second hand users for future sales. If the user has a bad warranty experience they will likely shop for a different brand next time they are in the market. Also, even if I bought the pack elsewhere, maybe I'm buying accessories directly. Would that not make me their customer? Granted that example doesn't apply in every case but my point is that if I'm using a manufactures pack I am one of their customers whether you define it as now or in the future.

Someone a few pages back in this thread posted an example of a bad warranty experience with a Kuiu pack owned by a secondary user. That bad experience leaves a bad impression on the customer and they may no longer want to buy products from that manufacturer​. On the other hand, if the company takes care of you even if you aren't the original buyer they just left a positive impression for life on that person. It also goes beyond that one person as they likely talk about their experience (good or bad) with their friends, family, on forums like this, etc.

The second hand market may not be direct customers as you define them, but there is a connection going forward. I don't think companies necessarily owe it to consumers to warrant products in the secondary market but I do think it's smart business. As also mentioned, it shows confidence in their product. I'd rather never need a warranty, but no product is perfect and it's nice to know a company stands behind it's products in the event it becomes necessary.

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[Lockster]

I would imagine that there are many on this forum who churn and burn quite a few packs on the eternal quest for "the pack" that is ideal for them. Having a strong resale market can only make it easier for these packaholics to buy and resell time and time again.

If I knew I could resell a pack for say $30-40 less than what I paid for it then I'd be more inclined to keep trying that company's different packs, If I was likely to lose bigger $ then I might be inclined to just hang onto the original pack. In this instance the company has got several packs into the market which may not have been the case if the resale value was not strong.

I have purchased several Osprey backpacks (they're warranty is essentially we'll fix it free, no matter what, for the life of the pack) after seeing them swap old-for-new on a pack that had one of had its straps torn off in an airport luggage "incident". There were no issues, no dodging their liabilities, they just gave over a new pack, that is top notch service and therefore I always happily recommended then to many friends and associates etc, it may have cost them a new pack but I have probably sold 8-10 people on their brand, so I guess it's all swings and roundabouts...

 

[dotman]

Dot, I get where your going but warranties like kifaru's are the minority.
I personally don't buy things for resale value but I am sure some do, and transferable warranties absolutely do bolster resale values.

It's also not entirely accurate, as I've had experience where I had to pay for something I didn't consider normal wear and tear. I've also payed shipping on items for warranty as well. Both those events cost me more money through no fault of my own.


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I completely agree Kifaru and SG overall are in the minority but of 4 companies packs mainly discussed 50% follow the product. Warranty isn't always my main deciding factor or I would only have Vortex products. To me a warranty is nice but durability, quality of construction and customer service are more important.

I've never heard of a Kifaru or SG failing anyone but we have had members on this forum tha have had Kuiu and Exo fail. Now I think Exo took care the issue and it was a bad batch of asat material but again I've never heard of Kifaru and SG letting material that will fail into their goods but with that said no product is perfect and all will have some issues that need repaired like the Kifaru power pulls on the bikini belt that were sewn incorrectly.

Yup there is a cost with getting a product repaired but at least you know it'll be repaired if you can't find your original receipt.

So to me the warranty speaks to the companies confidence that their goods very likely will not need it and yes industry wide it is in the minority but why? Personally I would like to see more companies known their products will last and not just become a consumable.

 

[Murdy]

I get your point, but what I still do not understand is how a business should cater to a non-customer. Can you please explain that? Can you please explain how a business should spend money on someone who has not spent money on their products?

When you buy a warranted product, you are purchasing the right to have the company repair the product should it fail. If you then go to sell the product, and the warranty does not transfer, the company is essentially taking from you something you purchased and you receive no compensation for losing the warranty (the buyer would likely pay more for the produce if the warranty followed it). So, you are losing something you payed for. Further, if you kept the product and it failed, the company would have to fix it; if you sell it and it fails in exactly the same way, the company is off the hook. This seems like a pure windfall to the company due to the mere fortuity that you sold the product before it failed.

Really though, this is just a matter of making a deal. A consumer would (or should) be willing to pay more for a produce with a good warranty. If the warranty isn't there, it should be reflected in the price. So, to the question of whether a warranty should follow a product, it depends on whether the company thinks its consumers would be more likely to buy the product at the enhanced price it would take to cover the cost of the warranty or if they would be more likely to buy at a lower price regardless of the absence of a warranty that follows the product.

 

[5MilesBack]

I think the logic that a used buyer isn't a customer of the brand is totally flawed.

Of course it is.

 

[rockmail2]

Lots of much appreciated opinion sharing going on here...I wonder if any of the pack companies will chime in at some point. I think the high end pack companies are Exo, Kifaru, Seek Outside and Stone Glacier...am I leaving anyone out?

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