Outfitters banning bergers?!

[FowlMouthA400]

So far my only experience with animals and bergers is the 87 vld in 6 creed…several hogs a coyote and 6-8 deer and none have took a single step…so looking at using the 108 and 140 elite hunter in 6 and 6.5 creed and the 168 vld hunter in 7 prc.

Yesterday I saw a post about a Berger 175 in 7mm that had killed an elk and one commenter was an outfitter and he refused to guide for anyone that shot Berger….so I asked him why and he said due to not recovering animals that were hit very well. And he said Brian litz cares nothing about the internal ballistics after hitting a animal only external ballistics of the bullet. Looking around at caribou hunt options ground a guide that has in their contract no Berger bullets….what is everyone’s results…I know any bullet could potentially fail at any given moment due to mfg issues or really anything. Are they shooting behind the recommended velocity requirement to make them work…I’m just curious…I still plan on using them and doing my own research.

 

[nobody]

Yeah, any outfitter that has an arbitrary ban on specific cartridges/calibers/projectiles is just publicly showcasing their lack of understanding of bullet performance or external/internal ballistics of any kind. IMO, it just makes it easier to narrow in on who I shouldn’t hire should the need arise for an outfitter.

 

[HuntHarder]

I wish I still had pictures of a berger we found in an opposite shoulder of a bull. It was clogged with hair and bever opened. I have seen a pile of dead animals shot with berger, but I have also seen some less than stellar results. I know guys were drilling out the tips trying to get them to expand. We had the opposite on a few elk, entrance, then grenade. The elk died quick, but 0 blood trail. One of the bulls ran 150 or so yards into a thicket and it took us over 3 hours to locate him. 0.0 blood. Luckily, as we always do when shooting at animals, we had multiple guys watching and we all concluded he was hit well. Had we not had guys watching, I would suspect some guys would have concluded it was a clean miss.

I still shoot bergers in some guns, but have slowly moved over to other bullets ( eld-m or x )

Freedom of choice in this country is a beautiful thing. It is their business and if they want to cut their available pool of clients down, by all means do so. No different than plenty of ranches or outfitters banning mechanical broadheads.

 

[OKHunter84]

I've killed a lot of animals with 185 bergers out of a 300 WSM and 215 bergers out of a 300 WM. Never had an issue with anything not being recovered with them.

 

[hereinaz]

My small sample size of 4 elk, 2 caribou, 1 mule deer, 3 blacktail, 3 Coues deer shot with my 7mm 180 vld hunters are complete successes. My sample size of 1 Coues and 1 caribou with 25 cal 133 were no different.

I know some use the Berger target bullets with thicker jackets.

I wanna know how someone determined it was a Berger and not a SMK or other.

Guides do what they do and have the right to be biased. They would be better off banning crappy shooters than Bergers…

 

[hunterjmj]

Everything I've killed up to this year since 2016 was with a 215 hybrid out of a 300wm. Never a loss. About half were drt and the others didn't go more than 30 yards. I'm using the 223 this year with eldm's and 77tmks. Have a couple cow tags and a buck tag. No doubt they'll kill just as well.

Never hunted with an outfitter and don't plan to so I don't have to worry about it. For those that do, i'd just look elsewhere or talk to the outfitter about your experiences.
Imagine what they'd think showing up with a 223 on an elk hunt.

 

[S-3 ranch]

I had a outfitter tell me I had to shoot a nosler partition in my 300wm instead of my normal federal classic 180gr , I ignored that and hammered a elk & bear both DRT , he wasn’t amused after I told him my interbond bullet was a good bullet and the shot placement was the key.
I don’t like the eldx but people are killing stuff so I don’t know , shoot what you want and prepare to lose some game if you can’t make the shots

 

[hiker270]

Had 1 outfitter in Colorado that specified no Berger bullets for his Elk hunts. His story was too many elk were not recovered mostly due to less than desirable bullet placement. Didn't matter to me I use Nosler Accubonds in both my 300 win mag and 7 PRC. I have also seen an Instagram podcast that a guide in Colorado said the outfitter he worked for specified no Berger bullets. Guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[nobody]

I had a outfitter tell me I had to shoot a nosler partition in my 300wm instead of my normal federal classic 180gr , I ignored that and hammered a elk & bear both DRT , he wasn’t amused after I told him my interbond bullet was a good bullet and the shot placement was the key.
I don’t like the eldx but people are killing stuff so I don’t know , shoot what you want and prepare to lose some game if you can’t make the shots

Good on you, I would’ve fired him the moment he threw something like that out. Hopefully he opened his eyes a tiny bit and changed his views on future hunts (doubt it).

 

[Tmac]

I’d like to see a tipped Berger.

 

[Flyjunky]

I always love the comment about not recovering an animal but was sure it was a good shot….how do they know for sure?

It’s funny, I moved over to Bergers over a decade ago after having a ttsx Barnes pencil through on more than one occasion. To each their own I guess.

 

[280Ackley]

I have never lost an animal that was hit with 168gr VLD-H. Well over 50 animals from antelope to moose.

 

[Pharmseller]

The bull my brother shot with a 180 VLD-H from his 7mm Rem Mag died pretty much right now.




P

 

[jtevanMT]

Our experience with VLD Hunter in 7mm mag and 300 WM has been poor inside of 300 yards. Lost animals, poor blood trails, and wasted meat in opposite shoulder due to bullet fragmentation and no exit wound. Longer shots have resulted in clean kills with no issues. All are hand-loads dialed for each gun. Changed back to Accubond with good success at all ranges, but would like to try Elite Hunters since Berger bullets can be highly accurate in many rifles.

Others report good success, but I have lost confidence in VLD Hunter for magnum calibers.

 

[tdhanses]

I would never use an outfitter that limited my personal bullet choice unless they told me that if they don’t recover my animal, since they made me use their approved bullets, I can keep hunting, which I also don’t agree with but I’m using what I feel most confident with (Berger by the way), next they’ll say you can only use a custom in 338wm.

215 Berger blood at less then 100yds, bull was drt. Not a bunch of wasted meat but internals were liquified.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

Ask your outfitter what his recovery rate is during bow season. I bet he’s lost 10:1 archery hunting vs. guys loosing bulls shot with Bergers.

 

[Steve300xcw]

Meh... his shit show. I'd respect his wishes or go elsewhere

 

[rookieforever33]

Our last outfitter all the guides all preferred bergers or eldms. They didn't call me a fudd with my 300wm and ttsxs though. 6 cows down between 200 and 520 yards from 6 hunters. 6.5 prc, 284wm, 300wm, 300 prc. I dont think the elk liked any of them.

 

[Pharmseller]

Our experience with VLD Hunter in 7mm mag and 300 WM has been poor inside of 300 yards. Lost animals, poor blood trails, and wasted meat in opposite shoulder due to bullet fragmentation and no exit wound. Longer shots have resulted in clean kills with no issues. All are hand-loads dialed for each gun. Changed back to Accubond with good success at all ranges, but would like to try Elite Hunters since Berger bullets can be highly accurate in many rifles.

Others report good success, but I have lost confidence in VLD Hunter for magnum calibers.

Don’t overlook the 162 Eldx. That’s what we use now. Very accurate and they kill quickly without excess meat loss.





P

 

[roadrunner]

They didn't call me a fudd with my 300wm and ttsxs though.

And they likely won't either. The "fudd" thing is a stupid Rokslide word salad...