Outfitter Rant

[sndmn11]

Shouldn't they at least let the original group try to at least tag out before they move in on the same herd?

For the guys to find the elk, then call in the other hunters is BS and you know it.

Sounds like there were plenty of critters to find a couple to shoot. But we know that not all outfitters are worried about folks shooting stuff.

Here are things I picked out.

My guide was a sincere guy from the area but was not skilled

the guides do a 2:1. I have harvested several animals on the ranch and BLM land

The second night we saw some elk and backed out

there was plenty of animals and grounds on the main ranch.

set up on the ranch border but about 800 yards away from us but we and they clearly saw each other.

I read this all as a client who has an understanding that success can still be had, several years' worth, even with other hunters on the same property. Elk were run into every day, the client hunter didn't kill any, so that client's conclusion is that others must be to blame.

There's zero reason another hunter cannot be within eye sight.

There's zero reason an unremarkable group of elk cannot be hunted by someone who also paid to hunt them. "We might hunt them/there later", is an open door for someone else to say, "ok, I will hunt them now", because there's no reservation system.

It sounds more like the guide was unsure of how to kill animals and it looks better when the clients are holding the optimism of seeing animals with, we will hunt them later" rather than it being demonstrated the lack in real skill and ensuing sadness. Plenty of animals, every day it seems, with no killing tells me they weren't run off and someone wanted killing rather than hunting.

 

[WRO]

It’s the main outfitters fault, we always hunt as a team even when it’s 1/1 or 2/1.

It’s on the outfitter for making sure his guys play nice in the sandbox..


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[TurkeyReaper69]

I've gotta assume this was his way of saying the outfitter has a special recreation permit to guide in that BLM Field Office's jurisdiction.

Please let me know if anyone knows though, I work for the BLM and have never heard of a concession

 

[5MilesBack]

Yeah, “concession” is the real puzzler….

He probably means "permit to outfit" on that BLM property. But the BLM would still be open to public hunting.

 

[ElDiablito]

I've gotta assume this was his way of saying the outfitter has a special recreation permit to guide in that BLM Field Office's jurisdiction.

Please let me know if anyone knows though, I work for the BLM and have never heard of a concession

He probably means "permit to outfit" on that BLM property. But the BLM would still be open to public hunting.

Yes, I’m sure that is what the OP means. “Concession” is a word used in Africa not in the US.

 

[sndmn11]

I was thinking he meant grazing permit.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

I would be very frustrated with the “pot licker “ thing with the other guides and hunters, I would probably return to hunt it again on the condition and agreement that the pot licker tactics stop.

“someone who copies or mimics another fisherman's tactics, techniques, or spots.”= a pot licking

By definition would not we all be pot lickers to some extent? Or is this term more for those that grab your spot immediately after you?

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I have used my Colorado outfitter for several years and have been ecstatic in past years with what they provided, this year being the exception. I don't know if I'm right or wrong but the outfitter has several thousand acres of private land and a 13,000 acre concession on BLM that abuts their ranch. The outfitter only allows 6 hunters per gun season in each of the four gun seasons, the guides do a 2:1. I have harvested several animals on the ranch and BLM land and its generally a quality hunt. The original outfitter is transitioning out and a son in law is taking over the operations. This year started out great as one of the hunters canceled and the outfitter could not replace the hunter as draws had closed and there were no left over tags. I was placed with a hunter that only wanted to hunt the ranch which was fine with me, and the solo hunter hunted and tagged out the first day on BLM land. My guide was a sincere guy from the area but was not skilled, but this was not a problem as I had hunted it in the past and knew some of the better spots on the ranch. our group let the other pair of hunters and their guide select where they wanted to hunt and we would hunt another part of the ranch. I saw 5-6 sm groups of elk but no legal bulls the first two days, our guide mentioned this to the other guide. Here is where the issues started the other group would pick one area but within an hour or so they were in our area setting up to hunt within our sightlines. I mentioned this to our guide that I don't want them that close to our group as there was plenty of animals and grounds on the main ranch. The second night we saw some elk and backed out so they wouldn't get spooked and possibly stay in the area over night, and the told the other group that we were backing out and within 5 min they came in on their truck and roared past us to try and shoot an elk (they spooked them) . I asked to go out with the guide that tagged out with solo hunter on day one going into the BLM wilderness area on foot (about a 3-mile hike) to be away from these guys. The hike was hard but we saw elk all morning with a glimpse of one shooter. when we got up to put our stalk on these guys moved from where they were hunting to our end of the ranch about a mile and a half away and set up on the ranch border but about 800 yards away from us but we and they clearly saw each other. I called them out at dinner they need to do their own scouting and to stop poaching around me.

Was I wrong ?

I am not going back to this outfitter, I use outfitters and guides for these type hunts and I have used outfitters and guides many times and never encountered this before.
they claim that they were not poaching and the son in law was with them and he said it was OK

1st world problems fir sure. But, a problem that arises from lack of management.


I’d never go back. And, I’d make sure the outfitter knew why. Personally.



I love hunting out west but, there is a definite line where money causes these issues in outfitting. Especially in areas where the line of sight is far.

 

[Marble]

After the first experience, I would talk directly with my guide. If it happened again, I would tell him his tip would be reduced or eliminated if he didn't get control of the other guide and hunters.

Lastly, I would call the original outfitter and have a chat with him. Depending on how that went would decide my choice for the following year.

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[BRTreedogs]

After the first experience, I would talk directly with my guide. If it happened again, I would tell him his tip would be reduced or eliminated if he didn't get control of the other guide and hunters.

Lastly, I would call the original outfitter and have a chat with him. Depending on how that went would decide my choice for the following year.

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How is one guide supposed to control another?
Is there a rank structure?

 

[Thread Savage]

How is one guide supposed to control another?
Is there a rank structure?

Typically, yes. Whether it’s written by the boss or an unwritten thing that just emerges naturally, you put any handful of dudes working together all day for a month or more, and living together in the same bunkhouse, and one of them is going to end up calling the shots.

OP, it’s possible that a demanding customer could’ve been in his guide’s ear, forcing action that ruined your hunt. I’ve only met maybe one or two guides in my entire life that I didn’t particularly care for, but there’s always at LEAST one or two D-bag customers in every camp. A douchey customer can easily ruin a guide’s entire week, and the guide is never going to TELL you that their customer is a grade-A certified super douche.

I don’t think I’ll ever go on a guided hunt without bringing enough trusted friends and/or family members that our group occupies the entire camp.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Typically, yes. Whether it’s written by the boss or an unwritten thing that just emerges naturally, you put any handful of dudes working together all day for a month or more, and living together in the same bunkhouse, and one of them is going to end up calling the shots.

OP, it’s possible that a demanding customer could’ve been in his guide’s ear, forcing action that ruined your hunt. I’ve only met maybe one or two guides in my entire life that I didn’t particularly care for, but there’s always at LEAST one or two D-bag customers in every camp. A douchey customer can easily ruin a guide’s entire week, and the guide is never going to TELL you that their customer is a grade-A certified super douche.

I don’t think I’ll ever go on a guided hunt without bringing enough trusted friends and/or family members that our group occupies the entire camp.

Ohh
Okay
So what if his guide was the lower ranking one?
And he talked with the higher ranking bad guide & the bad guide still did what ever he wanted?

Still gonna punish your u good guide because the bad guide didn’t listen?

 

[S-3 ranch]

By definition would not we all be pot lickers to some extent? Or is this term more for those that grab your spot immediately after you?

When I was a boat captain, I could be fishing 45 miles offshore and some potlicker would see my boat and bee line over to me and set anchor 100 feet apart, last time I was hunting Colorado people would see us glassing and walk over and set up 50-200 yards away, after we had hiked in the dark and settled in our area before the sun came up
Same crap pronghorn hunting New Mexico bird dogging us around the BLM
Zero curtesy now days

 

[BRTreedogs]

When I was a boat captain, I could be fishing 45 miles offshore and some potlicker would see my boat and bee line over to me and set anchor 100 feet apart, last time I was hunting Colorado people would see us glassing and walk over and set up 50-200 yards away, after we had hiked in the dark and settled in our area before the sun came up
Same crap pronghorn hunting New Mexico bird dogging us around the BLM
Zero curtesy now days

When I noticed that I point my spotting scope a completely different direction.

I peer through it, have anyone hunting with me look.

Then we do hand gestures indicating like it’s the largest trophy animal we’ve ever seen.

Maybe I’ll even get down behind my rifle.

It works better if there’s up hill behind them.

Then you act like you can’t get a shot from there and slink around the hill/brush.

And let them go charging up the hill trying to beat you to an animal that doesn’t exist

 

[Thread Savage]

@BRTreedogs too many what-if’s, and I wasn’t there. This is why I’m kind of thinking it could have just been a turd customer in the other group driving the action. I do know the guides usually have meetings every night and every morning, and the customers don’t hear the contents of these meetings. There are a million possibilities here, and I wasn’t there, but the guides would’ve all been in on ‘the plan,’ and the hunters/customers wouldn’t necessarily be told what the plan was.

 

[Blackstorm]

What is a BLM concession and BLM wilderness?



Yes. You knew other hunters would be doing the same exact thing you were. If you wanted to be the only hunter in the property, then that is the hunt you should have contracted.

blm wilderness lands are public but no motorized vehicles on them, so horse or hiking only. The outfitter has a permit to put up tents and such in a set area