Optimal Mule Deer Optics Setup

[swavescatter]

Alpha glass wins every time in every scenario. It's a simple affordability issue for some people.

Put the Swaro NL Pure 14's on a table next to the 2nd gen Sig stabilized 16's and I'm taking the Sigs every time.

My buddy I hunt with has the Swaros (and BTX setup). Sure is nice when you have 30 minutes to get set up and comfy behind them, but I've already scanned the mountain and ready to move on.

For dedicated 1 hour plus sessions in one spot, I'd go Alpha glass. They're much more comfortable to be in for longer. But are they 3X better than my Mavens? Nope. Edge to edge clarity is where they really win, and I don't see to find any less animals than my buddy.

I was looking for an elk carcass about 2,000 yds away that we watched some guys and youth hunter poach on private. Spotted it with my Sig 16's handheld and guided my buddy onto it with his NL Pure 14's on a tripod. We swapped glass and I couldn't really see it any clearer than my Sigs. Field of view, low light suck on Sigs, but for picking out game I'm actually MORE effective given that I'm glassing for 5 minutes before he's set up.

I'm a total idiot with money and buy whatever I want when it comes to hunting gear. After using his top end Alpha glass I simply have no desire for it for 99.9% of my hunts (at least the way I hunt).

TLDR - OP get a pair of 2nd gen Zulu6 HDX 16x42's. They're the Bee's knees. Don't bother with the new Pro versions of the Sigs - they're straight garbage.

 

[nphunter]

Put the Swaro NL Pure 14's on a table next to the 2nd gen Sig stabilized 16's and I'm taking the Sigs every time.

My buddy I hunt with has the Swaros (and BTX setup). Sure is nice when you have 30 minutes to get set up and comfy behind them, but I've already scanned the mountain and ready to move on.

For dedicated 1 hour plus sessions in one spot, I'd go Alpha glass. They're much more comfortable to be in for longer. But are they 3X better than my Mavens? Nope. Edge to edge clarity is where they really win, and I don't see to find any less animals than my buddy.

I was looking for an elk carcass about 2,000 yds away that we watched some guys and youth hunter poach on private. Spotted it with my Sig 16's handheld and guided my buddy onto it with his NL Pure 14's on a tripod. We swapped glass and I couldn't really see it any clearer than my Sigs. Field of view, low light suck on Sigs, but for picking out game I'm actually MORE effective given that I'm glassing for 5 minutes before he's set up.

I'm a total idiot with money and buy whatever I want when it comes to hunting gear. After using his top end Alpha glass I simply have no desire for it for 99.9% of my hunts (at least the way I hunt).

TLDR - OP get a pair of 2nd gen Zulu6 HDX 16x42's. They're the Bee's knees. Don't bother with the new Pro versions of the Sigs - they're straight garbage.

I believe IS glass has its place but saying NL14’s have a similar image to the SIG is a joke, Stevie Wonder could tell the difference between them. If you can’t see any clearer though NL’s you need your eyes checked, my 12yr old Razors have a better image than the SIG Zulus hands down.

I can have my 14’s on a tripod in about 1 minute, takes longer than that to change your battery when it dies. With the SIGs advertised battery life I’d go through 3 battery every hunting season.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Sure is nice when you have 30 minutes to get set up and comfy behind them

Why does it take 30 minutes to stick a stud in a hole and tighten a thumb screw? It doesn't, plain and simple. I can go from hiking to gridding on a tripod in <45 seconds, maybe a minute+ if I'm slapping on puffy pants.

 

[swavescatter]

I believe IS glass has its place but saying NL14’s have a similar image to the SIG is a joke, Stevie Wonder could tell the difference between them. If you can’t see any clearer though NL’s you need your eyes checked, my 12yr old Razors have a better image than the SIG Zulus hands down.

I can have my 14’s on a tripod in about 1 minute, takes longer than that to change your battery when it dies. With the SIGs advertised battery life I’d go through 3 battery every hunting season.

Have you actually compared the two side by side though?

I'm not saying they have a "similar image". The NL Pures are absolutely better in several measurable characteristics. However, the resolution in the center of the glass for an object in bright sun a mile away is not noticeable to me. FOV, edge to edge clarity, CA, low light, ergos... all better on alpha glass (hell even B-tier Maven type) on tripods.

Another time we were glassing for Barbary sheep and I couldn't tell if something was a goat or not with my Sigs. I break out my Maven 15's on a tripod and can't resolve any better. My buddy sets up his BTX 95 set up and only then could we BARELY resolve it. In that scenario, the giant BTX was only marginally better at animal ID than my Sigs.

My point is that unless you're spending A LOT of time glassing from a single sit I just don't see the value in alpha glass anymore. I loved my Maven 15's when I first got them but I just can't convince myself to pack them anymore. They're great to keep in the truck in case.

Alpha glass is better in every way except for the one where the IS binos shine: versatility. Glassing while driving? check. Bouncing around ridges? check High wind? check

The battery on my 16 just died after almost 6 months and I use them daily for practicing with my bow and spotting shots. Also several multi-day trips in there. Pop a fresh AA in before each hunt and you're golden.

If you spend HOURS in single locations glassing from a tripod, alphas are definitely for you. Or at least the Maven/Vortex UHD level. From my experience they won't help you find animals any better in GOOD LIGHTING (most of the day). In low light I switch to my RF binos.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Depending on the glassing knob don’t people usually spend hour + there? Almost all spots I sit and glass I could spend 2+ hours before I’m satisfied, can’t tell you how many times I’ve been sitting for 45+ min, and then something either steps out, or I’m gridding with my ATC and catch something in the shadows, and I hunt semi open pine/ aspen mixed with a little sage, for bigger country I feel like you could often spend a whole day in one spot. Rifle hunting in October/ November usually only hitting 2-3 glassing spots for the whole day

 

[JGRaider]

Depending on the glassing knob don’t people usually spend hour + there? Almost all spots I sit and glass I could spend 2+ hours before I’m satisfied, can’t tell you how many times I’ve been sitting for 45+ min, and then something either steps out, or I’m gridding with my ATC and catch something in the shadows, and I hunt semi open pine/ aspen mixed with a little sage, for bigger country I feel like you could often spend a whole day in one spot. Rifle hunting in October/ November usually only hitting 2-3 glassing spots for the whole day

Agree 100%. IS binos would be the last optic I'd take personally. Like you, I tend to sit a while before moving.

 

[WRO]

Have you actually compared the two side by side though?

I'm not saying they have a "similar image". The NL Pures are absolutely better in several measurable characteristics. However, the resolution in the center of the glass for an object in bright sun a mile away is not noticeable to me. FOV, edge to edge clarity, CA, low light, ergos... all better on alpha glass (hell even B-tier Maven type) on tripods.

Another time we were glassing for Barbary sheep and I couldn't tell if something was a goat or not with my Sigs. I break out my Maven 15's on a tripod and can't resolve any better. My buddy sets up his BTX 95 set up and only then could we BARELY resolve it. In that scenario, the giant BTX was only marginally better at animal ID than my Sigs.

My point is that unless you're spending A LOT of time glassing from a single sit I just don't see the value in alpha glass anymore. I loved my Maven 15's when I first got them but I just can't convince myself to pack them anymore. They're great to keep in the truck in case.

Alpha glass is better in every way except for the one where the IS binos shine: versatility. Glassing while driving? check. Bouncing around ridges? check High wind? check

The battery on my 16 just died after almost 6 months and I use them daily for practicing with my bow and spotting shots. Also several multi-day trips in there. Pop a fresh AA in before each hunt and you're golden.

If you spend HOURS in single locations glassing from a tripod, alphas are definitely for you. Or at least the Maven/Vortex UHD level. From my experience they won't help you find animals any better in GOOD LIGHTING (most of the day). In low light I switch to my RF binos.

I have, they serve a purpose but not a replacement by any means to a proper glassing set up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RockAndSage]

I own 10x Meostar HD, old Gold Ring HD, Swaro SLC, Swaro EL, Vortex Razor UHD, and Vortex Razor. The absolute best glass of the bunch is the EL 10x50, but you will not see things through it that you can't see 99% as well with the Razor, won't happen. I've had them side by side on tripods numerous times mule deer hunting, and guiding hunts. If you like alpha glass (I do too obviously), but don't kid myself into thinking they'll see things and find things better than any good $1000 optic today.

If you're saying, "in principle", that technique is more important than hardware, I'd agree.

If you're talking, "in fact", however - alpha glass, especially NL Pures, absolutely does give factual advantages you don't get with $1000 optics. The wider field of view, better edge-to-edge clarity, less fish-eye, the ability to peer deeper into mid-day shadows, and the better low-light capabilities alpha glass gives you does, in absolute terms, give a big set of advantages. You're just not going to see a tine, hoof, or even an ear-flick if it's not within your FOV.

And that's just the most obvious starting point.

I'm all about advocating for mindset and skillset before upgrading toolset - but the idea that the same experienced mule deer hunter won't have numerous advantages with Swaro NLs or other high-end stuff over Vortex or other mid-tier is just mystifying.

 

[180ls1]

Tools and techniques. They all differ and have advantages/disadvantages. Keep trying and applying to your use case.

At the end of the day, remember "no solutions, only tradeoffs."

 

[JGRaider]

If you're saying, "in principle", that technique is more important than hardware, I'd agree.

If you're talking, "in fact", however - alpha glass, especially NL Pures, absolutely does give factual advantages you don't get with $1000 optics. The wider field of view, better edge-to-edge clarity, less fish-eye, the ability to peer deeper into mid-day shadows, and the better low-light capabilities alpha glass gives you does, in absolute terms, give a big set of advantages. You're just not going to see a tine, hoof, or even an ear-flick if it's not within your FOV.

And that's just the most obvious starting point.

I'm all about advocating for mindset and skillset before upgrading toolset - but the idea that the same experienced mule deer hunter won't have numerous advantages with Swaro NLs or other high-end stuff over Vortex or other mid-tier is just mystifying.

Glad they work for you that well. I've killed 47 mule deer bucks over the past 53 years, and never owned an NL, so I'll stick with what I posted previously. Got my first "alpha" glass back in 1990, a Leica Trinovid BN. I had killed at least 15 bucks by that time.

I never said the NL's weren't awesome glass, they are, and probably the best on the planet. I don't need the absolute highest optical performance to find and kill game though.

 

[RockAndSage]

Glad they work for you that well. I've killed 47 mule deer bucks over the past 53 years, and never owned an NL, so I'll stick with what I posted previously. Got my first "alpha" glass back in 1990, a Leica Trinovid BN. I had killed at least 15 bucks by that time.

I never said the NL's weren't awesome glass, they are, and probably the best on the planet. I don't need the absolute highest optical performance to find and kill game though.

You can see how there's a pretty big difference between "not needing alpha glass to kill game", vs "offers no advantages", right?

 

[JGRaider]

You can see how there's a pretty big difference between "not needing alpha glass to kill game", vs "offers no advantages", right?

Your splitting hairs. Yes there are "differences", especially in the case of the NLs....FOV, edge to edge clarity as you say (they've got nothing on my 10x50 ELSV though). Are they advantages? Maybe, maybe not, depends on the user. If you don't have them side by side with whatever $1000+ glass you're using, you'll likely never know the difference anyway. And NO, $2500+ glass isn't necessary to be successful, and once again, I own "alphas".

 

[dreamingWest]

For those who switched from mid-levels to alphas, what made you pull the trigger?

First and last light performance. Which I heavily emphasize because I'm primarily a midwest whitetail hunter.

I was doing a bino comparison similar to you. Only I was coming from absolute junk and testing mid-range $1,000 glass with the Swarovski SLC thrown in the mix. This was nearly ten years ago (you could probably find my old thread) but I remember testing Maven B1, B2, Vortex Razor, Meopta Meopro, and SLC. I had it narrowed down to the B2 and SLC. In a smaller package the SLCs performance during twilight was remarkable and I knew I couldn't settle.

 

[RockAndSage]

Your splitting hairs. Yes there are "differences", especially in the case of the NLs....FOV, edge to edge clarity as you say (they've got nothing on my 10x50 ELSV though). Are they advantages? Maybe, maybe not, depends on the user. If you don't have them side by side with whatever $1000+ glass you're using, you'll likely never know the difference anyway. And NO, $2500+ glass isn't necessary to be successful, and once again, I own "alphas".

And again, you're conflating "need" with "advantages". You also literally have zero idea how many bucks you've missed in not having top glass, while convincing yourself you're "successful" and didn't miss any by having put "a" buck down.

This nonsense is the kind of stuff you'd tell a kid who needs to just learn to glass better. But telling an experienced mule deer hunter they won't get any advantage with better glass is a bizarre absurdity. You don't "need" top glass to get a buck, but you damn sure have a better chance at spotting the best hidden ones. Especially in the worst lighting conditions. Arguing otherwise is pretty suspect.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Are we talking western hunting on primarily public land or TX private?

 

[nphunter]

Have you actually compared the two side by side though?

Yes and there is no comparison. I suppose if I was driving down the road or glassing in super high winds, I don't do those things, if windy I move behind something and make sure I'm sitting.

The reason the BTX struggled was heat waves and the 16X saw less, I can glass all day long with my 8x32 with a great image in the desert. I don't feel like I hunt that much differently than most but spend hours glassing from a vantage point on antelope or deer hunts, even many high country elk hunts. I'm normally setup before daylight and glassing at least until we make a plan on an animal or to move.

FOV is king IMO when sitting glassing, that is one of the big disadvantages of IS binos, it is super easy to miss an area where an animal is flicking its ear or moving and you need to be on that spot to see it. NL14 280ft of crystal clear image at 1K, vs about 198ft on the SIG 16's. For reference, an STC/ATC at 17X has 186ft FOV, so you might as well be looking through a spotter. I guarantee the usable FOV is much better on the STC/ATC than the SIG. due to the poor edge to edge clarity on the SIG, from what I can tell looking though the Zulu 6 only about 60% of the FOV has a decent usable amount of clarity and zero of the FOV has great resolution.

I'm happy you love them and I'm sure others do as well but from what I've seen using them they are better for looking at things you already know about than actually glassing. We use them to inspect towers and they work great for that, not as well as a spotting scope if we need to do a close inspection but much easier for a quick look.

 

[Hnthrdr]

I think guys that set up pre dawn and glass for hours are not the norm the more I read this and from what I’ve seen in the field, which is fine, to each their own. We likely aren’t looking for the same deer anyhow if you know what I mean. hell if I was trying to shoot the first buck or bull I saw I’d use diamondbacks and save more money for driving around haha

 

[RockAndSage]

I got some hands-on time today with the 10x and 12x NLs and compared them directly against my Razors. My non-scientific, subjective takeaway: I really liked the NLs, but they didn’t blow me away quite as much as I expected.

Once you get past a certain level of quality, the differences show up most at the extreme edges of performance. It's not possible to really understand the capabilities of 2 different cars if both are just taken around the block, or run as daily drivers in a commute.

If I were to pick a pair, I’d lean toward the 10x, and I might still try the 8x just to compare.

Very good choice - the improved FOV and engineering of the Pures makes 10s feel more like 8s in how easy they are to do hand-held glassing.

This was during the late afternoon, though, and I imagine the NLs would really start to separate themselves in the last 30 minutes of light and on a tripod.

Yes, big time. Their excellence also shows up when looking deep into shadows, especially mid-day shadows. And in glassing into tree-lines and forested areas.

For those who switched from mid-levels to alphas, what made you pull the trigger?

Glassing for 10+ hours a day. The difference in eye-strain, and how long you can sit inside the glass, is the single biggest benefit for me with high-end optics. But that doesn't detract from just how much of a difference top glass makes looking into shadows mid-day, or low-light performance. Another major, less-discussed benefit, is Depth of Field in the higher-end glass - the bigger that is, the less you have to mess with the focus knob when looking further or closer at stuff inside the glass, as distances change. The more wide-open the landscape, or when you've got a couple of hills stacked inside your FOV, the more helpful that is. You mess with the knob less, and you're more likely to perceive a tine or a hoof, etc, that would otherwise go missed from not being perfectly in-focus. The worse the Depth of Field, the more you have to treat distances as shallow slices of what you can most optimally perceive, before adjusting the focus again.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I think guys that set up pre dawn and glass for hours are not the norm

You're correct, many people glass for short periods and move a significant distance.

I'll sit in one spot for hours before I'm done. Pre dawn is my goal every time, I've spotted alot of game waaaaaay before sunrise that simply can't be done with low-mid grade optics, I tried it for years before alpha glass was a reality for me.

 

[Hnthrdr]

You're correct, many people glass for short periods and move a significant distance.

I'll sit in one spot for hours before I'm done. Pre dawn is my goal every time, I've spotted alot of game waaaaaay before sunrise that simply can't be done with low-mid grade optics, I tried it for years before alpha glass was a reality for me.

Yep the 45 min before shooting light is the real golden hour…