Open sights

[Felix40]

I went through almost a dozen different sight setups for my muzzleloader and finally decided on a 1/16” brass front bead and a rear peep with removable center to make it a ghost ring. It’s a traditional style gun but I still feel very confident at 150yds. 6 o’clock hold is the most precise way to aim with regular open sights.

I was super happy when NM got the new open sight requirement. No more single shot rifle season.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Williams western precision is the way to go

Edit: there is a way to combine a fiber optic with the reticle sight, I have it on my Muzzy I’ll grab a pic and post it

 

[Steve300xcw]

Rifle, pistol, muzzleloader...I like them all the same. Impact on the top edge of the sight.

Covering up what I'm shooting at doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[The_Jim]

Definitely check out that Williams precision sight.

Those muzzleloaders can really ruin a guys day

 

[fishslap]

A “six o-clock hold” is the term you guys are searching for…..

I’m familiar with the term and method but I’m doing a center hold and not a six o’clock.

 

[ElDiablito]

I’m familiar with the term and method but I’m doing a center hold and not a six o’clock.

I sight in for the POI to be exactly on the top line of the front post if I’m sighting for dead on.

Sounds like a six o-clock to me….

 

[fishslap]

Sounds like a six o-clock to me….

If I aimed at the very bottom of the orange six inch circle I shoot at, at the six o’clock hand position, then it would be a six o’clock hold. I aim at the center and split the circle with the top of the post, therefore it’s a center hold aiming method.

A six o’clock hold can be a more precise aiming position at the range, but I put my orange circle on a black square shoot n c target and move it out from 75 to 100, so I like to see my hits easily on the target between those ranges using the same aim point. I have a six inch drop at 100 with round balls so my 75 yard shots are at the top of the circle and 100 yards at the bottom with a center hold aim point. A six o’clock hold puts me off my target and into the white paper or bottom of the target board at 100. Just personal preference on the method but what I use and described is still a center hold and not a six o’clock.

 

[Steve300xcw]

Sounds like a six o-clock to me….

just sayin...........

 

[UncleBone]

I was able to get it done this year with the williams western precision with a green dot. At 30 yards its pretty accurate.

 

[Felix40]

just sayin...........

View attachment 768644

I actually looked it up too. The description he is using is exactly what I’ve heard called a 6oclock hold. Apparently I don’t use a 6 o’clock hold but it sure feels like it and that’s what everyone I know calls it.

I’m not sure if all these diagrams are antiquated or everyone I know is mixed up but those two on the right seem about as practical as a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on.

Even now that I’m “educated” I’m inclined to refer to the two practical sight pictures as either 1. Covering the bull or 2. 6oclock hold.

 

[sndmn11]

I actually looked it up too. The description he is using is exactly what I’ve heard called a 6oclock hold. Apparently I don’t use a 6 o’clock hold but it sure feels like it and that’s what everyone I know calls it.

I agree with the pictures above, and the above 6 o'clock hold plays out most often with pistol training.

 

[Ditt44]

Distance to target. Bigger factor than anything with open sights. I use the six-o'clock hold on all my MLs because it is at least one thing that is consistent between all of them: .32, .36, .45, 50, .54 calibers and makes/models. I have added peep sights to some of them and it's a much better sight picture than iron on iron. My eyes are not great and seem to be failing faster but most noticeable in near focus fields.

Any hold at 50 yards on a deer or elk is going to easily put you within an inch or so of your intended point of aim, all things being equal and steady. At 100? No, your sight picture is far more critical and I will argue the six hold is far better as you can see more of your target. Add in a half dozen sight design styles and you can be all over the place. Once you're getting past 100 yards, I can't imagine trusting a hold "on" when I either have to adjust the hold points using the sights by moving my head position/eye alignment, or the 'hold over' and hoping I'm judging distance well.

With small game, squirrels in particular, six-hold at 10 yards is not not as easy to align at 25 nor 30 or 40. That little bugger head is awful small. Margin of error is decreasing by the foot. No way any hold other than six is going to work for me or the majority of shooters. My suggestion is always a peep and a fiber front, preferably green. Now, if they'd make square fiber inserts, I'd be more happy... maybe there's a technical reason they're can't or do not.

One last thought. Aim small miss small. Once I have a load and can shoot more for practice, keep shrinking your target. I typically start out with a 3-inch square at 25 then 50 to 75. At 100 I'll go six-inch circle. For the smaller bores I cut that 3-inch into four parts, 1.5x1.5 inches. I use a six-hold on that small square and expect five shots to be inside it at 25 yards. At 50 I can be near/around it mainly due to focus issues and deciding which of the fuzzy dupes are the actual middle.

My local club has various sized gongs on 25, 50 and 100 yard ranges, the smallest being a four inch size. At 50 I will give up paper and just concentrate on hitting that small gong and it actually feels "better". I'll walk down and mark each hit. Getting 'off' paper makes you think differently and focus more since you have no white space to catch a flyer etc. You want to be accurate with open sights, practice at single non-paper backed targets if you can.

 

[Felix40]

I agree with the pictures above, and the above 6 o'clock hold plays out most often with pistol training.

I’ve been through a bunch of handgun training (maybe 80ish hours) and nobody has ever suggested either of the two sight pictures on the right. I’m sure there is some specific discipline that uses them.

Edit to say: I know I’m probably wrong with my terminology. After doing a poll with the guys as work, we all agree that the diagram makes sense but is not how any of use actually use the term 6oclock hold.

 

[sndmn11]

I’ve been through a bunch of handgun training (maybe 80ish hours) and nobody has ever suggested either of the two sight pictures on the right. I’m sure there is some specific discipline that uses them but it wouldn’t make a ton of sense to line up your sights several inches below your desired point of impact (for most practical purposes).

I've never grabbed an issued Glock or MP out of the armory that didn't need it. Several inches is a lot more than needed though.

 

[fishslap]

NRA Family | How Does the 6 O'Clock Hold Work?

Why do some instructors ask you to hold your sights low?

www.nrafamily.org

“Most expert target shooters, for example, believe it’s easier and more precise to aim at the exact point where the white of the target’s paper meets the black bottom edge of the bullseye, rather than aiming at the approximated center of that black bullseye. So most competitive shooters use a 6-O'clock hold, and adjust their guns’ sights so that the bullet’s point of impact (where it will strike) is slightly higher than the guns’ point-of-aim.”

A guy at the range was using v-style targets for more precise shooting of his muzzleloaders (using a six o’clock hold at bottom of the v). I put some links below. Whatever people do, how they do it, or what makes sense to them doesn’t change the definitions or where the hour hand points on a clock.

Dead Center Shooting Targets - 9"x12" Paper

Shop for Dead Center paper shooting targets for iron sight rifles and pistols. Bright quality open sight targets for shooting range training. Free shipping!

www.thompsontarget.com

Mountain Plains Hi-Visibility Victory Rifle Precision Plus Targets Blue Series 25 per Pack

The Victory Model target is printed on 8 1/2" X 11" paper stock has a single 4 1/2" 'V' shaped aiming point with a horizontal bar on each side of the bottom of the 'V'. These targets are intended for either open-site firearms at distances from 3 meters (10 feet) to 25 yards...., or for scoped...

www.reloadingsolutions.com

 

[sndmn11]

I’ve been through a bunch of handgun training (maybe 80ish hours) and nobody has ever suggested either of the two sight pictures on the right. I’m sure there is some specific discipline that uses them.

Edit to say: I know I’m probably wrong with my terminology. After doing a poll with the guys as work, we all agree that the diagram makes sense but is not how any of use actually use the term 6oclock hold.

I think the gist of this thread is practice and preparation trumps showing up. Your training and experience has left you KNOWING where your pistol shoots. You likely know that at 3yds your perceived POA is different than at 21yds because you've done it with rigorous repitition and it is somewhat unconscious. With that knowledge you probably recognize you can't go buy a new pistol and assume it shoots with the exact same sight picture as your other(s). So you go learn that pistol instead of slapping it on your hip to go slay threats assuming results.

 

[cnelk]

I know for a fact that as you age, your eyes see different colors better than others.

Red is the worst. Green is best.