Open Country or Timber?

[jlw0142]

I hunt desert mule deer every year and am going on my first elk hunt next year, which is a drop camp hunt. The year after that, I am planning a DIY hunt with my hunting buddy to hunt elk on public land. He gets sketched out about predators, especially grizz, so that is one factor in our decision of where to hunt - but I guess my question for you guys is whether you would hunt open country or timber for your first DIY elk hunt? In some ways, I feel like it could be easier to find elk and watch them to understand their habitat and behavior in open country, but I feel like private land boundaries are often an issue to navigate. Also, given the fact that we won’t be hunting a highly coveted tag, I assume we are more likely to find bugling bulls is timber? Plus, since this is an archery hunt it could be easier to stalk a bull in timber. I’m not talking states because I know how that goes - but any input on the subject is greatly appreciated! Thanks!


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[nphunter]

I like to hunt both, I would find an area where you have some diversity in the landscape, specifically elevation. The biggest issue with open country elk is that most of the time it's hotter in the open country so elk are much less active and normally stop moving earlier and don't start until later. You can also find open country above treeline, which is kind of the best of both worlds, high country normally has the lowest densities which sometimes means more spot and stalk. I've found that low country, especially around private, has the biggest herds, which typically means more rut action more often.

The low country can be fun, depending on the state you may have to deal with rattlesnakes and scorpions in the low country. Also, more heat means having a better plan for meat care. I don't stress at all about meat care in the high country or timber country because you can normally find a tree to hang meat in the shade, you also have good thermals up higher which can not only cool meat but helps when getting close to animals.

I think in general, the most elk live in the middle elevation timber and it is the best by far if you want to call elk and get close to them. It's very hard to get into most peoples effective range in open country. Unless you find a bedded bull by himself it's much harder to spot and stalk elk than deer. Elk run in herds so you have a dozen or more sets of eyes, ears and noses that you have to fool.

The biggest problem with picking one is that if the unit you chose only has elevation between 5-6K feet and elk are not active or rutting you cannot change things up much. Typically, I go high early in the season to 7-8K+, and hunt timber when the rut picks up. If I'm struggling in the timber with no activity, I will move down to the lower country and glass for elk.

As far as predators, the only thing I would worry about is grizzly's, every other predator is a non-issue 99.9% of the time. If you're planning on hunting grizzly country just have a good plan. Honestly if you're not familiar with back country meat care and have never packed out an elk I probably wouldn't plan my first elk hunt in grizzly country. There are a lot of great hunting areas that don't have grizzly

 

[BuckSmasher]

I hunt desert mule deer every year and am going on my first elk hunt next year, which is a drop camp hunt. The year after that, I am planning a DIY hunt with my hunting buddy to hunt elk on public land. He gets sketched out about predators, especially grizz, so that is one factor in our decision of where to hunt - but I guess my question for you guys is whether you would hunt open country or timber for your first DIY elk hunt? In some ways, I feel like it could be easier to find elk and watch them to understand their habitat and behavior in open country, but I feel like private land boundaries are often an issue to navigate. Also, given the fact that we won’t be hunting a highly coveted tag, I assume we are more likely to find bugling bulls is timber? Plus, since this is an archery hunt it could be easier to stalk a bull in timber. I’m not talking states because I know how that goes - but any input on the subject is greatly appreciated! Thanks!


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IMHO your question is probably too vague for constructive feedback. Elk habitat is very variable from Washington rainforest to Arizona desert. I would concentrate on finding and getting the best tag available and less on how many trees there are.

 

[jlw0142]

I like to hunt both, I would find an area where you have some diversity in the landscape, specifically elevation. The biggest issue with open country elk is that most of the time it's hotter in the open country so elk are much less active and normally stop moving earlier and don't start until later. You can also find open country above treeline, which is kind of the best of both worlds, high country normally has the lowest densities which sometimes means more spot and stalk. I've found that low country, especially around private, has the biggest herds, which typically means more rut action more often.

The low country can be fun, depending on the state you may have to deal with rattlesnakes and scorpions in the low country. Also, more heat means having a better plan for meat care. I don't stress at all about meat care in the high country or timber country because you can normally find a tree to hang meat in the shade, you also have good thermals up higher which can not only cool meat but helps when getting close to animals.

I think in general, the most elk live in the middle elevation timber and it is the best by far if you want to call elk and get close to them. It's very hard to get into most peoples effective range in open country. Unless you find a bedded bull by himself it's much harder to spot and stalk elk than deer. Elk run in herds so you have a dozen or more sets of eyes, ears and noses that you have to fool.

The biggest problem with picking one is that if the unit you chose only has elevation between 5-6K feet and elk are not active or rutting you cannot change things up much. Typically, I go high early in the season to 7-8K+, and hunt timber when the rut picks up. If I'm struggling in the timber with no activity, I will move down to the lower country and glass for elk.

As far as predators, the only thing I would worry about is grizzly's, every other predator is a non-issue 99.9% of the time. If you're planning on hunting grizzly country just have a good plan. Honestly if you're not familiar with back country meat care and have never packed out an elk I probably wouldn't plan my first elk hunt in grizzly country. There are a lot of great hunting areas that don't have grizzly

This is incredible advice! Thank you!


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[jlw0142]

IMHO your question is probably too vague for constructive feedback. Elk habitat is very variable from Washington rainforest to Arizona desert. I would concentrate on finding and getting the best tag available and less on how many trees there are.

Yeah I understand what you mean. We just have no experience with elk so I was hoping for some insight into which type of environment would provide us with the best opportunity to learn, whether that means communicating with elk or just observing them. Of course we want to kill an elk, but don’t realistically expect that we will the first year unless lightning strikes. And, with my limited knowledge it’s very difficult for me to determine which units are “good” and which aren’t. Of course, that’s something we will just have to do our research on and figure out - but deciding between those open-country type terrain units vs the dark timber mountainous units helps us thin the herd. I want to get some good experience under my belt before I start burning points on high-quality units. If I did that now, it would be a waste of a tag and years’ worth of points.


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[nphunter]

I want to get some good experience under my belt before I start burning points on high-quality units. If I did that now, it would be a waste of a tag and years’ worth of points.

This is very smart, I've done just that on an elk hunt, had one of the best tags in the state (20yrs to draw but I got lucky and got it in the random) This was back when I had only been elk hunting for a couple of years, I was lucky to be able to kill a bull on that hunt but knowing then what I know now I would have been able to do the tag the justice it deserved.

Another thing I didn't mention is whether above the timberline or in the desert country, open country elk typically move way more than they do in the cover, especially after being messed with. In the timber we can often get into the same elk day after day even if we mess up they seldom leave the drainage and often only move a few hundred yards in the thick cover. In the high country, they will move to a different basin often and low land elk will run miles when messed with. Just this fall I bugled at a bull that was bedded across a desert canyon from us, he was probably .25 miles away and we glassed him up. After a few bugles from my tube that bull stood up and walked almost 2 miles out of site from us. In the same are we bumped a small herd of elk in a creek bottom, we got to a high knob to see where they would stop and they went over 4 miles up the drianage onto private. This is in an area where there is almost zero pressure; I've never seen another hunter in this spot in over 10 years of hunting it.

Just something to think about, if I just wanted to kill an elk I would hunt timber almost all of the time, I'm at a point in my elk hunting where I only want to kill old mature bulls. This means if hunting timber I can waste a lot of time chasing younger bulls that I have no desire to shoot because I don't typically know what they are until they are in bow range. Calling elk is still super fun and much more exciting than spot and stalk IMO.

 

[jlw0142]

This is very smart, I've done just that on an elk hunt, had one of the best tags in the state (20yrs to draw but I got lucky and got it in the random) This was back when I had only been elk hunting for a couple of years, I was lucky to be able to kill a bull on that hunt but knowing then what I know now I would have been able to do the tag the justice it deserved.

Another thing I didn't mention is whether above the timberline or in the desert country, open country elk typically move way more than they do in the cover, especially after being messed with. In the timber we can often get into the same elk day after day even if we mess up they seldom leave the drainage and often only move a few hundred yards in the thick cover. In the high country, they will move to a different basin often and low land elk will run miles when messed with. Just this fall I bugled at a bull that was bedded across a desert canyon from us, he was probably .25 miles away and we glassed him up. After a few bugles from my tube that bull stood up and walked almost 2 miles out of site from us. In the same are we bumped a small herd of elk in a creek bottom, we got to a high knob to see where they would stop and they went over 4 miles up the drianage onto private. This is in an area where there is almost zero pressure; I've never seen another hunter in this spot in over 10 years of hunting it.

Just something to think about, if I just wanted to kill an elk I would hunt timber almost all of the time, I'm at a point in my elk hunting where I only want to kill old mature bulls. This means if hunting timber I can waste a lot of time chasing younger bulls that I have no desire to shoot because I don't typically know what they are until they are in bow range. Calling elk is still super fun and much more exciting than spot and stalk IMO.

Yes, that is awesome insight! Chances are, if we get into elk, we are going to screw it up so that's great to know. Thanks again! We would be more than thrilled killing a couple raghorns on our first go-round, so its sounding like timber may be our best option.

 

[BuckSmasher]

Yeah I understand what you mean. We just have no experience with elk so I was hoping for some insight into which type of environment would provide us with the best opportunity to learn, whether that means communicating with elk or just observing them. Of course we want to kill an elk, but don’t realistically expect that we will the first year unless lightning strikes. And, with my limited knowledge it’s very difficult for me to determine which units are “good” and which aren’t. Of course, that’s something we will just have to do our research on and figure out - but deciding between those open-country type terrain units vs the dark timber mountainous units helps us thin the herd. I want to get some good experience under my belt before I start burning points on high-quality units. If I did that now, it would be a waste of a tag and years’ worth of points.


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Elk are easy to hunt in good areas... hard in crappy ones.

"Good" areas have lots of elk. Bad areas do not. Sounds sarcastic but I don't mean it that way. I think people over complicate it. Ways to tell if an area has lots of elk are harvest reports, state management documents, etc.

 

[jlw0142]

Elk are easy to hunt in good areas... hard in crappy ones.

"Good" areas have lots of elk. Bad areas do not. Sounds sarcastic but I don't mean it that way. I think people over complicate it. Ways to tell if an area has lots of elk are harvest reports, state management documents, etc.

Well, sure, but often times high-harvest areas have tons of pressure. For instance, many metro units have very high harvest rates. Does that make them necessarily good? No, they just get hunted a ton because they are convenient. Other factors that are difficult to quantify also effect this analysis, like large private outfitters in the unit who may make up a large portion of the harvest. But I get your point; I can do some more digging.

 

[CMF]

I would concentrate on finding and getting the best tag available and less on how many trees there are.

agree

I want to get some good experience under my belt before I start burning points on high-quality units. If I did that now, it would be a waste of a tag and years’ worth of points

The flip side of that is, drawing a high-quality unit will get you more encounters in a day than you'll get in a season on a ez draw unit. And if that high-quality unit is in a random draw state, you haven't given up anything.

 

[BuckSmasher]

Well, sure, but often times high-harvest areas have tons of pressure. For instance, many metro units have very high harvest rates. Does that make them necessarily good? No, they just get hunted a ton because they are convenient. Other factors that are difficult to quantify also effect this analysis, like large private outfitters in the unit who may make up a large portion of the harvest. But I get your point; I can do some more digging.

Yes. We are on the same page.

 

[spike camp]

In the Colorado high country, I often find myself hunting where the high open terrain, meets timber.

 

[Thess87]

I have more successful friends than I am that swear by open terrain, but I can help but loved chasing in the timber.

 

[fatlander]

I’d skip the drop hunt. If you get packed into a gar hole, you wasted a ton of money and learned nothing. If you get packed into a honey hole, you still didn’t really learn anything about finding elk on your own.

Just go hunting, on your own, in an area you can hunt year after year, and start figuring it out. The faster you do that, the faster you’ll figure it out.


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[jlw0142]

I’d skip the drop hunt. If you get packed into a gar hole, you wasted a ton of money and learned nothing. If you get packed into a honey hole, you still didn’t really learn anything about finding elk on your own.

Just go hunting, on your own, in an area you can hunt year after year, and start figuring it out. The faster you do that, the faster you’ll figure it out.


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Well, the deal is done now. I agree, I like doing DIY adventures better but my dad liked the drop camp idea better. We are just going to cover ground like crazy and hope for the best. Maybe I can glean a little experience from the trip. But the next year, I’m going DIY with my buddy.


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[TaperPin]

I 100% choose an area based on the terrain that’s the most enjoyable hunting, for me. I’d rather poke a sage brush in my eye than archery hunt elk in the flats, or even foothills. Include PJ (pinion/juniper) in my least favorite, on any kind of slope - if a person has to look out for cactus, or is covered in dry dusty dirt every day I’m out. Many open areas above timberline also have no appeal, especially those in lightning prone windward side of the mountain type places. Busy trailheads suck, camping along dusty Forest Service roads suck. You know the obnoxious kid that pulls his boat up to the beach and blasts his favorite music while passing a football over your heads? Anywhere he likes to camp I’ll gladly avoid. No love for grizzlies so outside of their normal range is better, but lone bears travel a long way outside of “normal” range and that’s ok. Death March canyons and super steep rocky or blow down choked drainages are good for young guys who know there are elk nobody else wants to pack out from those hell holes, and it takes a few elk to outgrow it.

You eventually find the places that simply feel the most rewarding. For me, the north slopes with thick timber and lots of small creeks and small meadows is full of elk, you never see another sole all day, bumping into elk is an every day occurrence, and it just feels elkish in a good way.

 

[LCguy]

I prefer PJ in areas that are steeper and hillier. It suits my style of hunting better. I like to get up high, spot and stalk and I hunt with a Muzzleloader so it's a little easier to get in close in the PJ, IMO.

I grew up in the desert and the lower elevations call to me in a way that Timber just doesn't.

 

[jlw0142]

I 100% choose an area based on the terrain that’s the most enjoyable hunting, for me. I’d rather poke a sage brush in my eye than archery hunt elk in the flats, or even foothills. Include PJ (pinion/juniper) in my least favorite, on any kind of slope - if a person has to look out for cactus, or is covered in dry dusty dirt every day I’m out. Many open areas above timberline also have no appeal, especially those in lightning prone windward side of the mountain type places. Busy trailheads suck, camping along dusty Forest Service roads suck. You know the obnoxious kid that pulls his boat up to the beach and blasts his favorite music while passing a football over your heads? Anywhere he likes to camp I’ll gladly avoid. No love for grizzlies so outside of their normal range is better, but lone bears travel a long way outside of “normal” range and that’s ok. Death March canyons and super steep rocky or blow down choked drainages are good for young guys who know there are elk nobody else wants to pack out from those hell holes, and it takes a few elk to outgrow it.

You eventually find the places that simply feel the most rewarding. For me, the north slopes with thick timber and lots of small creeks and small meadows is full of elk, you never see another sole all day, bumping into elk is an every day occurrence, and it just feels elkish in a good way.

Thank ya, that’s good advice! Gotta find what you like. I appreciate it!


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[jlw0142]

I prefer PJ in areas that are steeper and hillier. It suits my style of hunting better. I like to get up high, spot and stalk and I hunt with a Muzzleloader so it's a little easier to get in close in the PJ, IMO.

I grew up in the desert and the lower elevations call to me in a way that Timber just doesn't.

Started hunting deer in AZ 3 years ago and I always thought of western hunting as dark timber terrain. I have fallen in love with that low elevation desert country - it is beautiful in its own way and very fun to hunt.


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[TaperPin]

Thank ya, that’s good advice! Gotta find what you like. I appreciate it!


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Along those same lines, anyone just starting out should try a lot of variety to see what they like, so you can’t go wrong and even bad hunts are giving you valuable information. As a practical matter every elk herd is hunted a little bit differently. Great advice for any hunting is to understand how the locals hunt and adjust accordingly to fit your style. “Thinking outside the box” or being proud of rowing your own boat without local knowledge as a base, is often shorthand for you don’t know what the heck you’re doing and potentially peeing into the wind. Good luck and have fun.