onX hunt inaccurate property lines

[elkstabber]

204....Your close. The fact of the matter is that there was a foot trail that went on/ off my property in an attempt to reach public land.

The fact of the matter is that the OP doesn't know if or where the foot trail goes on or off of his property because he has admitted that he hasn't had the land surveyed. He doesn't know his own property's boundaries. A good landowner would know their exact boundaries.

 

[Billinsd]

It’s kinda like this:
Hello sir or madam. My name is Joe Rokslide Jr. I’ve been looking over some maps at an area I’m planning to hunt this fall and it appears to border your property. I want to make very sure that I’m in the correct area. Would you mind taking a look at this map with me?

If this was simple to do, that would be fantastic!! It seems to me that many owners do not live near the property, could live in another state, or be difficult to get a hold of.

Or...
Hi Mr. or Mrs. Forest Service representive. My name is Joe Rokslide Jr. I’ve been looking over some maps at an area I’m planning to hunt this fall and it appears to border several privately owned properties. I want to make very sure that I’m in the correct area. Would you mind taking a look at this map with me?

I did this in San Diego County several years ago. After calling, leaving messages and emails to the local forest circus employee responsible for land status. He did finally answer the phone. I said "there is a forest service road going up to a huge plateau that is "mostly" private property, however there is considerable forest land as well." I said "this owner has installed razor Concertina wire and posted private property, violators will be prosecuted signs all over your gate that is on public forest service property. This property owners property is 150 yards beyond your fence." The forest circus employee said "Well the owner is doing that to keep people from trespassing on his land, because he doesn't want to post and fence his land, and besides he had trouble with trespassers decades ago." I said "REALLY??, you know you aren't supposed to allow that!" He said "Ahhhh....you are right." I said "you need to take that crap down." He said "Ahhhhhh, we don't have the resources, but you will not get prosecuted for trespassing, because it is public land." Then I hung up......

Have some phuqqin balls and talk to people.

That ain't my problem. It's time and patience and they are in very short supply, lol. Cheers Bill

 

[Wrench]

Here's something to ponder, most states have punishment for harassing a sportsman. *If* you were to do so (varying definition from state to state ) because you believe that you are right, and that sportsman happens to have the tools to prove you wrong (trimble....etc) you may have stepped from offense to defense in one confrontation.

Now if you are surveyed and can prove your pins, it's hard to argue with. ...but if you're not right and you pissed the wrong guy off....it could get uncomfortable quickly.

FWIW, my dad gained 26 acres when he surveyed. I have sympathy for guys who onx guides to my dad's ground, and when I am there....I try to cut them slack if they are half decent. I expect them to be pissed of after climbing that hill to learn the property line doesn't line up like the map does.

 

[White Wizard]

Huntstand’s lines are ‘off’ too.
I would STRONGLY recommend taking a few moments to educate yourself on what you are using and what it means.

I'm no pro survey man. Just speaking from my own experiences. Guess my research comparing the two (onx and huntstand) against the property line maps I got from the county and the whole summer I spent with 2 different gps units verifying my positions and the knowledge of the land owner history (most of who I know personally) is not good enough to be educated, but I find it to be good enough for this ol flatlander, but maybe not for the western expansion. I wouldn't question another's "education" over the wonderful world wide web, but make all the assumptions you would like.

 

[Go Pokes]

Again fences mean nothing. In Wyoming you must show intent for there to be criminal trespassing. If you are lead astray by maps or GPS due to improper an boundary there is no intent. The Use of GPS could also be used in a defense.

"The law change would include a protection for those who are led astray by maps or phones. An accused trespasser who ends up on private land even after “reasonable use” of GPS or a land status map could invoke that use as a defense against the charge."

Full article at link below. Basically the grey area will stay grey and therefore conflicts will happen, have your GPS units handy and hunt like you mean it.

The article only references Wyoming law but would assume its not far off of most states.

Lawmakers eye stricter trespass laws at agriculture’s request - WyoFile

The Judiciary Committee advanced a suggestion brought by the farming and ranching lobby that will make it easier to prosecute the public for trespassing.

www.wyofile.com

 

[Billinsd]

Lawmakers eye stricter trespass laws at agriculture’s request - WyoFile

The Judiciary Committee advanced a suggestion brought by the farming and ranching lobby that will make it easier to prosecute the public for trespassing.

www.wyofile.com

Looks like same interests control Wyoming too? Say it isn't so.... Where can a landlocked Conservative Californian escape to??? Very disappointing.....

 

[16Bore]

If this was simple to do, that would be fantastic!! It seems to me that many owners do not live near the property, could live in another state, or be difficult to get a hold of.
I did this in San Diego County several years ago. After calling, leaving messages and emails to the local forest circus employee responsible for land status. He did finally answer the phone. I said "there is a forest service road going up to a huge plateau that is "mostly" private property, however there is considerable forest land as well." I said "this owner has installed razor Concertina wire and posted private property, violators will be prosecuted signs all over your gate that is on public forest service property. This property owners property is 150 yards beyond your fence." The forest circus employee said "Well the owner is doing that to keep people from trespassing on his land, because he doesn't want to post and fence his land, and besides he had trouble with trespassers decades ago." I said "REALLY??, you know you aren't supposed to allow that!" He said "Ahhhh....you are right." I said "you need to take that crap down." He said "Ahhhhhh, we don't have the resources, but you will not get prosecuted for trespassing, because it is public land." Then I hung up......
That ain't my problem. It's time and patience and they are in very short supply, lol. Cheers Bill

OnX and a GPS ain’t gonna fix that either.

 

[MtGomer]

I'm no pro survey man. Just speaking from my own experiences. Guess my research comparing the two (onx and huntstand) against the property line maps I got from the county and the whole summer I spent with 2 different gps units verifying my positions and the knowledge of the land owner history (most of who I know personally) is not good enough to be educated, but I find it to be good enough for this ol flatlander, but maybe not for the western expansion. I wouldn't question another's "education" over the wonderful world wide web, but make all the assumptions you would like.

Huntstand is doing the same thing every other software is. Compiling GIS Grade linework and making a map out of it.

I didn’t write that to criticize you. It’s just that, you don’t know what you don’t know. And in this case, there is a lot you don’t know, to make a comment like that. It’s okay not to know. It isn’t your job.

 

[WCB]

With all the maps, deeds, surveys, aerial photography, GPS and public records available....has anyone thought to ask?

It’s kinda like this:

Hello sir or madam. My name is Joe Rokslide Jr. I’ve been looking over some maps at an area I’m planning to hunt this fall and it appears to border your property. I want to make very sure that I’m in the correct area. Would you mind taking a look at this map with me?

Or...

Hi Mr. or Mrs. Forest Service representive. My name is Joe Rokslide Jr. I’ve been looking over some maps at an area I’m planning to hunt this fall and it appears to border several privately owned properties. I want to make very sure that I’m in the correct area. Would you mind taking a look at this map with me?


Yeah, you might hear “get the hell off my lawn” or you might hear “well honey, ain’t nobody hunted here in a coons age. You can hunt over there too. Let me find a pen and I’ll write you a permission slip. You know, I ain’t had no back straps since Wilbur passed. Maybe you could bring me some...”

Rumor has it a loaf banana bread once opened the gates to some primo turkey spots.


Have some phuqqin balls and talk to people.

I agree partially...people can a should ask in certain situations. Same with people that come on here and ask questions about ONX or "insert" company name. Call the company and ask.

However, lets say you ask the landowner and they say it is theirs....but the Forest Service says it is public. Now what do you do? that is the basically the question here. When all available evidence shows one thing but one person/landowner says another, who is right (short of as discussed here the land being actually surveyed and proof being shown). I've been miles back and got the border of BLM land that every map as far back as I could find has marked as BLM. Know a rancher in the area that understands it to be BLM also as he has grazing rights the bordering NAtl Forest, but when I got to the line the adjacent land owner posted it right across the boundary of Forest Service and BLM. This was a 300 acre area. In your theory I should now call the landowner and ask them because of the signs. Sorry not happening.

 

[Wrench]

I agree partially...people can a should ask in certain situations. Same with people that come on here and ask questions about ONX or "insert" company name. Call the company and ask.

However, lets say you ask the landowner and they say it is theirs....but the Forest Service says it is public. Now what do you do? that is the basically the question here. When all available evidence shows one thing but one person/landowner says another, who is right (short of as discussed here the land being actually surveyed and proof being shown). I've been miles back and got the border of BLM land that every map as far back as I could find has marked as BLM. Know a rancher in the area that understands it to be BLM also as he has grazing rights the bordering NAtl Forest, but when I got to the line the adjacent land owner posted it right across the boundary of Forest Service and BLM. This was a 300 acre area. In your theory I should now call the landowner and ask them because of the signs. Sorry not happening.

You find out who the enforcement officers are who would write you the ticket and ask them. Fish cops, fs cops....state trooper, mountees. Due dillegence at play. Don't wait till the last day to make a plan.

 

[White Wizard]

Huntstand is doing the same thing every other software is. Compiling GIS Grade linework and making a map out of it.

I didn’t write that to criticize you. It’s just that, you don’t know what you don’t know. And in this case, there is a lot you don’t know, to make a comment like that. It’s okay not to know. It isn’t your job.

Lol. Oh, ok. Man I was really worried that I didnt know the right thing. I never claimed to know anything except that onx is less accurate in my area on boundry lines and land ownership. I do know that because I have researched it.

 

[CorbLand]

You find out who the enforcement officers are who would write you the ticket and ask them. Fish cops, fs cops....state trooper, mountees. Due dillegence at play. Don't wait till the last day to make a plan.

So now every time I encounter a no trespassing sign I should stop what I am doing and call everyone that has authority to write a ticket for trespassing? Man, if that is the case I am going to put up a bunch of no trespassing signs. Should stop people for a couple days. I don't need no hunting competition all year round. A couple days will suit.

This concept makes sense if its an easy to access area but what happens when you get 5 miles in and run into a fence and a sign?

 

[WCB]

You find out who the enforcement officers are who would write you the ticket and ask them. Fish cops, fs cops....state trooper, mountees. Due dillegence at play. Don't wait till the last day to make a plan.

Who said anything about last day plans? I stated I checked all published resources. Anybody you just named will look at a map same as me and say it is BLM. The BLM agency in that area gave me a map and that map shows that parcel as BLM.

 

[Go Pokes]

I believe this is a dead horse getting beaten. If it says public, its public until its not. Maps say public whether its last minute plans or 1 year ago... public. Sorry but checking with everyone in the book just doesn't happen like all the Johnny rule followers say they do. If a fence stops you even though your GPS says its public fine, pack back out and try to find service and number for that land owner that may or may not own it....me...I'm jumping onto public land.

 

[Wrench]

So now every time I encounter a no trespassing sign I should stop what I am doing and call everyone that has authority to write a ticket for trespassing? Man, if that is the case I am going to put up a bunch of no trespassing signs. Should stop people for a couple days. I don't need no hunting competition all year round. A couple days will suit.

This concept makes sense if its an easy to access area but what happens when you get 5 miles in and run into a fence and a sign?

You may want to read the quote that I responded to, I'm thinking you missed the context.

 

[Wrench]

Who said anything about last day plans? I stated I checked all published resources. Anybody you just named will look at a map same as me and say it is BLM. The BLM agency in that area gave me a map and that map shows that parcel as BLM.

If that's the case, then hunt it and if you get harassed, file charges. Your original situation made it sound questionable. If it's questionable, then it suddenly becomes easy for them to prove intent.....and you'd have wanted enforcement to grace you.....

 

[mattferg84]

Ive never seen it wrong in my areas that I hunt but I have seen it the other way around where landowners post "No Trespassing" signs on National Forest. I have turned quite a few in. I just wish the punishment for them was as severe as trespassing.

 

[Michael54]

Ive never seen it wrong in my areas that I hunt but I have seen it the other way around where landowners post "No Trespassing" signs on National Forest. I have turned quite a few in. I just wish the punishment for them was as severe as trespassing.

Its just ridiculous across the board. On x is not a cure all for not doing you due diligence. Its a tool used to give you an idea of where you can be or can't be. It sounds like the people referred to on the op know better but are doing it anyway due to an on x map error and using that as their justification. If that is in fact the case I would press as many charges as i could on them. In my area all of our property lines are well known and we abide by them. If one of us tried to use on x as a justification we would probably be laughed at by the guy writing the ticket. (The on x map doesnt even show my house that i built 6 years ago or any of the subsequent property line changes) On the flip side if we claimed more than what we owned someone would be knocking on our door within days.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Must be county thing cuz I have used em in CA, AZ & CO and the maps were dead on. Been challenged too and my tracker showed I had not crossed the line.

 

[nodakian]

Perhaps OP’s problem started with believing the sales pitch in the first place. LOTS of folks who want their slice of heaven assume the realtors know what they’re talking about. Judging from my years surveying in MT, a few do but most don’t. I’ve seen some ugly situations.

Did OP investigate the boundaries befor purchase, or did he buy sight unseen? Did he pay a “survey” fee to the title company at closing? If so, what “survey” did they do? If he gets a real survey and finds true boundaries are different than represented he may be able to recover something from the title company and/or realtor.