Ongoing Research on Transmission of CWD to Humans

[wmr89]

Im not referring to the risks of the disease. Im talking about the risk of getting it. Lets say someone gets it. It would be what, .000001% chance or something so small? Probably people reading here taking medications with a higher risk of killing them. People smoking and drinking have a higher chance of catching terminal diseases. You have a much higher chance of so many things killing you. CWD is probably not something I would worry about. However, Im not faced with the real risk so maybe my opinion would change. I have a much higher chance of dying every time I go h
unting I know that.

Fortunately, most prion diseases are pretty rare. Unfortunately, between rarity and long incubation periods that means that there isn't very good data from similar diseases like Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease that would indicate what the chances of contracting CJD from eating infected meat would be. If anyone can find data on that it would be extremely interesting and relevant to the discussion. So it may be a 0.000001% chance you get it from eating infected meat or it may be 100%. We just don't know, it's a hypothetical situation stacked on top of another hypothetical situation. In today's reality I'd say go for it, it is probably less that a 0.000001% chance, but that wasn't the OP's question.

 

[MuleyFever]

Fortunately, most prion diseases are pretty rare. Unfortunately, between rarity and long incubation periods that means that there isn't very good data from similar diseases like Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease that would indicate what the chances of contracting CJD from eating infected meat would be. If anyone can find data on that it would be extremely interesting and relevant to the discussion. So it may be a 0.000001% chance you get it from eating infected meat or it may be 100%. We just don't know, it's a hypothetical situation stacked on top of another hypothetical situation. In today's reality I'd say go for it, it is probably less that a 0.000001% chance, but that wasn't the OP's question.

OPs question was would it change the way I hunt. My answer was it isn't something I think I would worry about based on the risk. I'm nearly certain I've eaten a CWD positive deer. I grew up living in and hunting in the "eradication zone" when it first came to be in WI and we lived off deer meat. Never bothered to have one tested though.

 

[Crowmangler]

That would be one hell of a meme thread...

 

[LongWayAround]

This spring, we reported a deer that was dead with no apparent signs of why. The warden who answered said they did not care to test it and just know that CWD is present at significant levels. That area is shown in the regulations as mandatory testing if you kill a deer and CWD is listed as "detected over 20%."

Personally, I'm not going to intentionally kill a deer that appears sick. I'm also not going out of my way to test for it on animals that appear healthy. It seems like a total unknown and I find it hard to believe that these prions have not always been around at some level.

 

[Stalker69]

I’ve never understood this…

The prions are very difficult to kill and can live on hard surfaces. So if you take your elk to a processor and there’s an elk there that has cwd, wouldn’t that elk infect everybody else’s meat. If the prions are on the knives, tables, grinder, etc?

How does a professional butcher keep cwd from spreading?

They don't, it will spread that way.

 

[Stalker69]

I read it takes heat over 900 degrees to kill the prions. I’ve heard bleach works, not sure what type of bleach? Only time I mess with the spine, in the field, is getting the head off the spines. It might be a smart move to come up with a system. Replaceable blade, last thing that’s cut on the animal, dispose of blade, put handle in plastic bag and bleach when I get home.

Not sure where you read that, but I have read many articles and they all state that bleach does not kill the prions, but it's what is recommended to clean all processing equipment. As far as heat, I read that even incineration may not kill it. I don't think 900 degrees is going to touch it.

 

[Fordguy]

Hunt cows and does. No head removal.

Do skull cleaning beetles get infected by prions?

I'm not sure you could get a CWD test in Oklahoma if you wanted one. Maybe at the vet school.

I'm guessing more people have gotten sick from lettuce contamination than any deer disease.

Plus, the KNOWN health risks of alcohol consumption sure don't seem to be slowing drinking habits except maybe Bud Light.

In the words of the late, great Warren Zevon: "Life will kill ya"

No testing in Oklahoma, take the lymph node sample, and send it to the lab of your choice. I talked to Dallas, he said to let him know if anything came back positive.

 

[Idaboy]

Okay - here’s what you do…

Go to your doctor and tell them you want to be tested for CWD.
Every year along with your physical.

What do you think their response will be?

The response from your doctor would be "we'll test you when you're dead" cause that's the only way to evaluate a human for spongiform encephalitis...,autopsy of brain

 

[Stalker69]

The response from your doctor would be "we'll test you when you're dead" cause that's the only way to evaluate a human for spongiform encephalitis...,autopsy of brain

No they won't test you even after you die. They refused to test my mom and father in law after there passing. In fact the doctors were like " test for what ". They never even heard of it, they just jot it down as " dementia ".

 

[Idaboy]

it changed the way I break down a carcass about 15 yrs ago.. I am not really "concerned about contracting".....but rather trying to follow the basics about what we know about prion diseases to prevent potential spread. I do the head last last and use disposable blade on that. Spines stay at the killsite for the wolves.

 

[Marbles]

Prions are not destroyed by autoclaving (a true sterilization using steam several degrees above boiling). Prions are not alive, so they technically cannot be killed, the technically correct word is destroyed, which is difficult. 900 degrees would destroy them, it is a protein and will burn into CO2 and biproducts like any other protein. The same goes for strong bleach. Amino acids decompose between 185 C and 280 C. The study that the 600 C reference comes from was testing incinerator emissions and it implies a lack of completion combustion at 600 C, not that a protein does not burn at that temperature.

The medical practice is to destroy surgical instruments used on patients with CJD (a human prion disease) rather than sterilize and reuse like normal.

Acquired prion diseases are very rare in humans. Prion disease are already rare to start with. The risk of vCJD (mad cow) from beaf is estimated at 1 per 10 billion servings. Since 1996 there have been 229 reported vCJD cases.

All that said, I predominantly avoid eating brains (though not completely); otherwise, I don't worry about it.

 

[Idaboy]

No they won't test you even after you die. They refused to test on mom and father in law after there passing. In fact the doctors were like " test for what ". They never even heard of it, they just jot it down as " dementia ".

That's unfortunate. I have seen it tested for, but it can take a lot of hoops for doctors or families to jump through...sorry to hear the doctors didn't listen to you

 

[Idaboy]

Prion Diseases

Prion diseases comprise several conditions. A prion is a type of protein that can trigger normal proteins in the brain to fold abnormally. Prion diseases can affect both humans and animals and are sometimes transmitted to humans by infected meat products. The most common form of prion disease...

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

IF (the magic word in this thread) it were to jump to humans the prognosis would probably not be great. Current prion diseases that do affect humans have no good treatments, no cures, and are all fatal.

"Probably not be great".....lmoa.....hope I never hear those 4 words from my doc

 

[huntineveryday]

Change the way I hunt, probably not. But it's already changed the way I take care of the deer after the kill. Switched to the gutless method, break the deer down on the spot and don't cut into the spinal column until the meat is taken care of. Carcass stays where it fell. Take neural samples and send in for testing. Meat and tools stay in coolers until results come back, then I either proceed with processing the meat or the meat and cooler goes to the landfill and the knives get a heavy bleach treatment (which is hard on everything but the blades). Last year was the first time we've had a positive test. It's there, it wont be the last.

The risk is small. I might be comfortable taking it and consuming the meat. I refuse to pass that risk on to my children, my family or my friends, however. And they all consume what I harvest.

 

[huntineveryday]

If it is ever found that it can make the jump to cattle...that will change the way I hunt significantly! Deer and elk would be irradicated everywhere I hunt!

 

[cnelk]

The response from your doctor would be "we'll test you when you're dead" cause that's the only way to evaluate a human for spongiform encephalitis...,autopsy of brain

Nope. CWD is tested from the lymph nodes. At least it is in deer

 

[Idaboy]

Nope. CWD is tested from the lymph nodes. At least it is in deer

Yes, in ungulate we test lymph nodes....Not in humans, there are other ancillary tests, but only brain to corfirm

 

[Rick M.]

One section of the article mentions that if CWD were to start infecting humans, it would result in a large decline in deer hunts, which would actually make the situation even worse. CWD seems to be correlated with overpopulation (see southern Wisconsin, NE Iowa, and SE Minnesota), so not hunting deer would exacerbate the problem. It makes me wonder if there will come a time when wanton waste laws are dropped and they just want large quantities of deer being killed. I'd love to hear some wildlife biologists or game managers weight in on this, if we have any here.

The trophy hunters don't like deer culls, and of course meat hunters don't like CWD.

 

[Rick M.]

Change the way I hunt, probably not. But it's already changed the way I take care of the deer after the kill. Switched to the gutless method, break the deer down on the spot and don't cut into the spinal column until the meat is taken care of. Carcass stays where it fell. Take neural samples and send in for testing. Meat and tools stay in coolers until results come back, then I either proceed with processing the meat or the meat and cooler goes to the landfill and the knives get a heavy bleach treatment (which is hard on everything but the blades). Last year was the first time we've had a positive test. It's there, it wont be the last.

The risk is small. I might be comfortable taking it and consuming the meat. I refuse to pass that risk on to my children, my family or my friends, however. And they all consume what I harvest.

Agree with everything you said.

I've been doing gutless and leaving the carcass where it lies just like you stated. This year my deer ran onto private, but the landowner was a great guy and didn't mind me leaving the carcass in his woods. I take a snow sleigh with paracord and game bags with me, dress the deer out, and drag only the meat back to the car. Lymph nodes are collected at the very end with a separate knife / processing kit. I agree about not risking feeding it to the kids and family. Just doesn't sit right with me, no matter how minuscule the risk. If I get a positive result back, the meat's trash. I've also started focusing on the northern and central portions of the state where CWD is relatively rare.

 

[cnelk]

I can see the CSU deer pens from my house where CWD was initially detected.
I can even use the hiking trail that goes right by them.


Like mentioned earlier in the thread, doctors are going to say upon death.... "Test for what??" Hahaha