**On the topic of Extreme Font of Center Arrows**

[aggieland]

***This Topic is just me spitballing and thinking out loud for fun, would love to hear your thoughts to keep me same at work this evening.***
I built some arrows recently that is UEFOC the entire arrow weights roughly 900 grains but the insert and head are at least 650 grains of the total 900 grains of arrow weight. Now this got me to thinking, if I were to shoot an animal with this setup would the tip and insert being so heavy be more like a bullet hitting and penetrating even if for some reason the shaft failed on impact. I guess what I am asking is even if the arrow shaft failed and broke on impact the tip has so much momentum and mass it would pass on along.
I was thinking while building this test arrow for fun that Ashbys #1 rule was arrow integrity and I'm sure he was talking about broadheads, inserts and shafts. But it makes sence that higher foc takes out the possibility of losing more penetration due to the shaft breaking or flexing on impacts..

 

[EASTEXASARCHER]

Not sure, but if you don't like the shot on release you could probably run and catch it before it hits the target!

 

[Boxerboxer]

***This Topic is just me spitballing and thinking out loud for fun, would love to hear your thoughts to keep me same at work this evening.***
I built some arrows recently that is UEFOC the entire arrow weights roughly 900 grains but the insert and head are at least 650 grains of the total 900 grains of arrow weight. Now this got me to thinking, if I were to shoot an animal with this setup would the tip and insert being so heavy be more like a bullet hitting and penetrating even if for some reason the shaft failed on impact. I guess what I am asking is even if the arrow shaft failed and broke on impact the tip has so much momentum and mass it would pass on along.
I was thinking while building this test arrow for fun that Ashbys #1 rule was arrow integrity and I'm sure he was talking about broadheads, inserts and shafts. But it makes sence that higher foc takes out the possibility of losing more penetration due to the shaft breaking or flexing on impacts..

As soon as the arrow breaks from the shaft, not only is the momentum due to the arrow's weight immediately gone, but the arrow shaft also stops providing "steering" and the point will no longer have an easy time keeping the pointy end pointed forward. And it won't act like a bullet because at this point it's not even travelling a tenth of a rifle bullet's speed, and really isn't any heavier than say a .30-06 bullet. If you read Ashby thoroughly you'll see that the structural integrity of the arrow is critical to penetration.

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[Beendare]

Personally I think you’re overthinking things.

First most arrows break from the arrow being in the animal and them busting it off. i’ve had a few break after they go through animals and hit rocks.

Very few arrows break on impact with an animal. I’ve had arrows hit big bones and stop dead. It happens. Would I want to shoot a massively heavy arrow for the very rare one in 200 times that this happens-nope.

too many important tradeoffs just to shoot a worst case arrow like that. You will miss far more animals due to range error .... and have more poorly placed shots with that arrow.

Not worth the tradeoff to me.

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[aggieland]

Like I said just having fun in the man cave building things. I think steering the arrow would be over right at impact. And the bullet idea is more of mental image just thinking what would a 650 grain broadhead with let's say 8 inches of shaft do traveling at 180fps on impact vs having the extra 20 inches of shaft on back. None of this really matters but it's fun to think on for me.

 

[Steve O]

As with most things in life, “extreme” on the front of something doesn’t make it better. Sensible almost always works just as good without a ton of hassle...

 

[406unltd]

I’m not sure that’s possible to break an arrow and have the point still moving forward. Makes my head hurt lol. If it broke off that means the animals scissored it off and the arrow is already dead in the water cause it didn’t pass through. If that heads blew through the animal chances are most if not all the arrow went through too. I have had an arrow get scissored off back by the fletching once. About 5” was inside him . That means ~23” of shaft was still attached to head.

 

[MattB]

Personally I think you’re overthinking things.

I would have stopped right there.

 

[aggieland]

I would have stopped right there.

Ha, yes I agree. I guess the thought I have is more like what if the point hit at that 650g weight without a shaft behind at all and if it "magically stayed on a straight path, i wonder if it would continue to penetrate like a complete arrow would at the same weight. Totally useless thoughts on the night shift.

 

[Beendare]

It’s a common mistake people make comparing arrows to other projectiles like bullets, missiles etc. Not even close to the same.

Your UFEOC arrow with massive tip weight has a huge disadvatage thats overlooked by Ashby crowd:

the big destabilizing effect that tip weight has on the arrow at launch making the bow more critical to shoot- Steve O nailed it, avg FOC is better.

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[bsnedeker]

I disagree with the above, I think it will act exactly like a bullet. A bullet travelling 100 FPS!

 

[ozyclint]

yeah a 650gr bullet at 100fps with a broadhead on it. i wouldn't want to be hit by that.

 

[aggieland]

It makes more sense to me when I think of a 650 grain dart hitting something going 200fps vs a full length arrow hitting at 250fps. Energy/penetration loss due to shaft flex on impact has to be substantial.

 

[Beendare]

I disagree with the above, I think it will act exactly like a bullet. A bullet travelling 100 FPS!

You are joking right?

A bullet comes from a rifled barrel...supported along the length of the barrel.

Try shooting that bullet from a slingshot....then get back to us.

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[aggieland]

It's pretty clear many are missing the point i was trying to make. Forget the bullet idea, think more along the lines of a dart shaped projectile vs a 29 inch arrow same weight. If both traveled the same speed and straightness with a broadhead on front do would you think one would penetrate better than the other?

 

[bsnedeker]

You are joking right?

A bullet comes from a rifled barrel...supported along the length of the barrel.

Try shooting that bullet from a slingshot....then get back to us.

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Ummm...yeah.

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