Not so long-range monolithic bullets

[MatukaJoe]

I've been using factory ammunition out of my 28 Nosler (Nosler Mountain Carbon 1:9 twist) with good success for four years now. I have found both the Nosler ABLR and Federal Terminal Ascent shoot very well from it. Unfortunately, Federal will no longer produce a full factory cartridge for the 28 Nosler and only sell the .284 bullets. So I'm moving forward at present with the ABLR. I've shot that round to 600 and taken an animal to 460 with it.
I've wanted to go nonlead as I like a tougher bullet and not leaving lead behind. I tried Barnes in a company loaded round but the rifle didn't fully like them and from testing I've seen online I get some trepidation at ranges beyond 300-350 yards.
What I am really hoping to have is a nonlead bullet that can fully expand to 400-500 yards out of my rifle. My experience with nonlead is at 400 yards they are at more limited expansion.
Lately, I've been intrigued by both Badlands and Makers bullets. As I am not a trauma specialist, I am not sure why one would prefer a fragmenting bullet of Badlands over a larger wound channel bullet of Makers.
I also wondered about any personal experiences or testing anyone has done or seen to 400 yards or lower velocities with such bullets.
Maybe I am asking too much out of these monolithics, but while minimum expansion is typically listed at around 2000 fps I'd prefer more maximal and usable expansion out to the above distances.
Thanks for any info.
Cheers.

 

[Bluefish]

I have only worked with Makers in 35 and 45 cal. They do open down to slow speeds, but the 35 cal had a horrible BC. Less than half of a Barnes TTSX.

seems to be hard to get high bc in a mono. Even Hornady cx’s are lower bc than the eldx or eldm

 

[MatukaJoe]

BC def seems an issue in monolithics. I've also looked at Cutting Edge Bullets. I may just have to start handloading the Federals but was thinking of going full nonlead.
Makers which is one of the higher BC at 160 grain lists for nonlead at least the ABLR however is Vastly higher BC

Sectional Density (SD)	.283​
Ballistic Coefficient (BC)	.49​

 

[SouthPaw]

At 28 Nosler speeds with a 400-500yd target range, any standard .284 copper bullet will maintain expansion velocity. Pick the one you like and run it fast.

 

[J&A Outdoors]

You might look into the new hornady CX line.

I know you stated barnes, however - If you haven't tried the Barnes LRX lineup - that is another good one to test. Inside 600 the LRX has worked great for us.

 

[2five7]

If you're set on factory ammo, your choices will be limited. If you can roll your own, or find a company to do it for you, that will give you some more options.

I played around with some 143 Hammers last year in my 28, I'm thinking I'll stick with them for the foreseeable future. Lower BC, but starting them at 3500+ helps mitigate that some. Killed 3 Bulls with that rifle last year, from 100 yards out to 540, bullets performed very well on all.

 

[MatukaJoe]

Thanks all def looking to start rolling my own. I have a buddy who will help.
Not so keen on Hammer in part bc I have two friends that are contrary in their results and even their website wants higher twist on the .284 bullets compared to others.
The Hornady CX is an interesting thought that wasn't on my radar in part bc their lead bullets have been far to frangible for me and have jacket issues in my personal experience.
I didn't mention I even looked at Nosler Etip in 150 grain - impossible to find now and the box I had Nostler stated must have been shouldered incorrectly as the bolt would not close on them. They eventually just sent me a refund check after nearly 2 years.

Anyway, that's why the following has not held my attention
Hammer - high twist requirements and inconsistent feedback from shooters I know who use them
Barnes - rifle was not fond of them and from what I've seen in demonstrations other options have a larger expansion
Hornady - dislike of their lead terminal ballistics for my applications (which I recognize is not a good reason)
Nosler Etip - unavailable
Any fragmenting nonlead round - just don't understand why that over a non-fragmenting
And lastly I am not just looking to meet expansion velocity of say 2000 fps but am hoping to find full expansion out to 500 if possible even with my what some would now say is a slow 1:9 twist

I appreciate all the input!

 

[wind gypsy]

What makes you think a fragmenting bullet doesn’t make a wider wind channel?

Cutting edge and McGuire ballistics make some higher BC options but I’d want to make sure you could load em to fit in you magazine length.

I’d shoot 145 Cutting edge lazers to 500 in my SAUM, so a 28 with a much bigger case should do fine.

 

[28bang]

McGuire ballistics would be a great choice. They have a 160 with a great bc. Not finicky to load for and would say maybe the easiest

 

[ReddingArcher]

The Barnes seem to do fine in the 28 nosler. This is a sample size of 1, but I watched my brother in law shoot a big bodied mulie at a bit over 600 and that buck didn't take a step. Bullet was not recovered so I cant say how it looked after expansion. I'd rather not be forced to shoot a mono, but its required where I live unfortunately. I have seen some animals run a ways with little blood trails after being hit with a mono, both close and far.

 

[Macintosh]

My crystal ball suggests that after page 6 of this thread it will devolve into a frangible bullet/"killing bullets" discussion, so be warned. But, the TL/DR is that a bullet creates a temporary stretch cavity in the animal, and the fragments from frangible bullets cut muscle fiber within the temporary stretch cavity at the moment of its maximum stretch, which has the effect of creating much more damage than a bullet that holds together. So the frangible bullets kill faster, they just have the potential to do excessive damage. If you search you can find lots of threads on this site on the subject.
Re the monos, I dont have a 28 nosler and I havent killed critters at longer range with them, but I have killed critters with 6.5, 7mm and 30 cal copper bullets at velocities similar to what you'd see from a 28 nosler well past 400 yards. The air is thick and the humidity high where I live so I'm guessing most places you'd realistically be taking 400 yard shots your velocities will be higher than mine, but my ballistic calculator suggests a 150grain 7mm bullet with a .498 bc at 3250fps (which is nosler factory etip published specs) keeps you over 2200 fps almost to about 575 yards. I would not hesitate to use a 140 gr or 150 gr ttsx or LRX at a velocity like that. The advice I have recieved is to keep velocity over 2200 fps, although a few other people say 2000fps, and some people are comfortable down to 1800. Regardless, you have wiggle room well past 500 yards with that cartridge even keeping it over 2200.

 

[MatukaJoe]

My crystal ball suggests that after page 6 of this thread it will devolve into a frangible bullet/"killing bullets" discussion, so be warned. But, the TL/DR is that a bullet creates a temporary stretch cavity in the animal, and the fragments from frangible bullets cut muscle fiber within the temporary stretch cavity at the moment of its maximum stretch, which has the effect of creating much more damage than a bullet that holds together. So the frangible bullets kill faster, they just have the potential to do excessive damage. If you search you can find lots of threads on this site on the subject.
Re the monos, I dont have a 28 nosler and I havent killed critters at longer range with them, but I have killed critters with 6.5, 7mm and 30 cal copper bullets at velocities similar to what you'd see from a 28 nosler well past 400 yards. The air is thick and the humidity high where I live so I'm guessing most places you'd realistically be taking 400 yard shots your velocities will be higher than mine, but my ballistic calculator suggests a 150grain 7mm bullet with a .498 bc at 3250fps (which is nosler factory etip published specs) keeps you over 2200 fps almost to about 575 yards. I would not hesitate to use a 140 gr or 150 gr ttsx or LRX at a velocity like that. The advice I have recieved is to keep velocity over 2200 fps, although a few other people say 2000fps, and some people are comfortable down to 1800. Regardless, you have wiggle room well past 500 yards with that cartridge even keeping it over 2200.

TY sir you get a gold star in my book for a clear concise post and illuminating details I wasn't aware of! Yes I've been looking around 150gr bullets or really whatever will work. and I agree I like keeping impact velocity to 2300 plus even with my Nos as from what research I've found online 2300 plus seems to be the minimum bullet velocity for maximum expansion. This is all great info. Ty again! PS I would try the etip if i could ever find them again hah!

 

[MatukaJoe]

What makes you think a fragmenting bullet doesn’t make a wider wind channel?

Cutting edge and McGuire ballistics make some higher BC options but I’d want to make sure you could load em to fit in you magazine length.

I’d shoot 145 Cutting edge lazers to 500 in my SAUM, so a 28 with a much bigger case should do fine.

Thanks, I'll take a look at the CEs. Mostly choosing a bullet that holds together better out of personal preference.

 

[UTJL]

I've been using factory ammunition out of my 28 Nosler (Nosler Mountain Carbon 1:9 twist) with good success for four years now. I have found both the Nosler ABLR and Federal Terminal Ascent shoot very well from it. Unfortunately, Federal will no longer produce a full factory cartridge for the 28 Nosler and only sell the .284 bullets. So I'm moving forward at present with the ABLR. I've shot that round to 600 and taken an animal to 460 with it.
I've wanted to go nonlead as I like a tougher bullet and not leaving lead behind. I tried Barnes in a company loaded round but the rifle didn't fully like them and from testing I've seen online I get some trepidation at ranges beyond 300-350 yards.
What I am really hoping to have is a nonlead bullet that can fully expand to 400-500 yards out of my rifle. My experience with nonlead is at 400 yards they are at more limited expansion.
Lately, I've been intrigued by both Badlands and Makers bullets. As I am not a trauma specialist, I am not sure why one would prefer a fragmenting bullet of Badlands over a larger wound channel bullet of Makers.
I also wondered about any personal experiences or testing anyone has done or seen to 400 yards or lower velocities with such bullets.
Maybe I am asking too much out of these monolithics, but while minimum expansion is typically listed at around 2000 fps I'd prefer more maximal and usable expansion out to the above distances.
Thanks for any info.
Cheers.

Call Barnes about the 139 grain 7mm LRX or do a search on here, there’s a thread about it. The 139 LRX has one of the lowest minimum velocities out of all of their copper bullets. I think it is 1400fps. I’m not saying it will reliably open down to 1400 fps, just that it will reliable open at lower speeds than most other monos.

With a 28 Nosler your still above 2200 fps out to ~800 yards.

 

[Macintosh]

Call Barnes about the 139 grain 7mm LRX or do a search on here, there’s a thread about it. The 139 LRX has one of the lowest minimum velocities out of all of their copper bullets. I think it is 1400fps. I’m not saying it will reliably open down to 1400 fps, just that it will reliable open at lower speeds than most other monos.

With a 28 Nosler your still above 2200 fps out to ~800 yards.

With the 139 lrx? What bullet/velocity/enviros are you at that you are above 2200fps at 800 yards with a copper bullet?

 

[UTJL]

With the 139 lrx? What bullet/velocity/enviros are you at that you are above 2200fps at 800 yards with a copper bullet?

I’m personally not getting those velocities. I threw the 139 lrx into a ballistics app with a MV of 3400 fps for the 28 Nosler. I get that it may not be 100% correct. My point is a 28 Nosler should have sufficient velocity well past 400.

But if I’m wrong let me know!

***found the possible discrepancy, my elevation is set for 7.5k. The benefits of hunting up high.

 

[Macintosh]

I’m personally not getting those velocities. I threw the 139 lrx into a ballistics app with a MV of 3400 fps for the 28 Nosler. I get that it may not be 100% correct. My point is a 28 Nosler should have sufficient velocity well past 400.

But if I’m wrong let me know!

***found the possible discrepancy, my elevation is set for 7.5k. The benefits of hunting up high.

ha! I changed the elevation to 7500 and you're right. I guess worth noting that it's always eye-opening to me how much elevation affects this. I plugged in exactly the same values but for one variable--for my location around 1000' elevation--with eveything else exactly the same, my AB app says it goes below 2200 at 610 yards IF you can start at a legit 3400. change nothing except the elevation to 7500' and it says you are a RCH above 2200fps at exactly 800 yards. start at 3300 and it shaves about 50 yards off. Even in absolute worst case still room for error well past 500 yards.

 

[Caseknife]

Hammer bullets don't need excessive fast twist rates to stabilize. According to the data on their website, your 1-9" would stabilize up to 150 Shock Hammer. Think the 131 Hammer Hunter would be smoking out of a 28 Nosler.

 

[JFK]

You really shouldn’t have any issues with most of the copper bullets out to 400-500 yards. Don’t pick the heaviest bullet, push it fast and you’ll be just fine. My 270win maintains 2200fps out to 500 yards with the 129gr lrx. 2200fps is a very safe margin as they expand below that, just not as much as most people would like.

You mention that your rifle doesn’t like the Barnes. Did you jump them .050-.100? They like a lot of jump. The hammers are even easier to load. I honestly just picked an arbitrary number and they shot great first try.

 

[tankgijohn72]

I've been using factory ammunition out of my 28 Nosler (Nosler Mountain Carbon 1:9 twist) with good success for four years now. I have found both the Nosler ABLR and Federal Terminal Ascent shoot very well from it. Unfortunately, Federal will no longer produce a full factory cartridge for the 28 Nosler and only sell the .284 bullets. So I'm moving forward at present with the ABLR. I've shot that round to 600 and taken an animal to 460 with it.
I've wanted to go nonlead as I like a tougher bullet and not leaving lead behind. I tried Barnes in a company loaded round but the rifle didn't fully like them and from testing I've seen online I get some trepidation at ranges beyond 300-350 yards.
What I am really hoping to have is a nonlead bullet that can fully expand to 400-500 yards out of my rifle. My experience with nonlead is at 400 yards they are at more limited expansion.
Lately, I've been intrigued by both Badlands and Makers bullets. As I am not a trauma specialist, I am not sure why one would prefer a fragmenting bullet of Badlands over a larger wound channel bullet of Makers.
I also wondered about any personal experiences or testing anyone has done or seen to 400 yards or lower velocities with such bullets.
Maybe I am asking too much out of these monolithics, but while minimum expansion is typically listed at around 2000 fps I'd prefer more maximal and usable expansion out to the above distances.
Thanks for any info.
Cheers.

I have taken moose and mule deer at 700 yds with 127 lrx with good expansion. 26 nosler. (only recovered bullet from moose under offside hide). Have also taken mule deer at 350 range with 129 lrx. The barnes ttsx requires more velocity to expand than the lrx. You should have no issue with expansion at the ranges you listed with 28 nosler.