North dakota mule deer condition

[Gutshot007]

Lots of talk about decimation of mule deer due to snow/winter in western mountain states . What are you guys seeing in north dakota ?

 

[KurtR]

dead deer from my friends up there and we are getting piss pounded again today

 

[Huntin Fool]

Deer and pheasants are going to be in tough shape after this winter. I know the question was about mule deer but I was more so commenting on whitetails in the eastern part of the state

 

[Gutshot007]

Right next to you guys in northern minnesota . Getting sloppy seconds on the snow pounding right now . Seems like the only happy people this winter are skiers or drought states . Bummer on the muleys

 

[NDGuy]

Whitetails will take a hit. Mule deer eh, out west got less snow than east.

 

[WCB]

Small sample size but we have a place in centralish ND... East of dead center but close enough. There are 4 or 5 herds of 20 or so mule deer within 15-20 minutes of our place and seem to be doing pretty good. They are smack dab in the main snow corridor for this winter. Hard to tell until melting starts happening how the whitetails will fair. Lots of remote areas in the hills deer winter in and can't even get close enough to put a spotting scope on reliably enough to get an sort of idea.

Seeing Whitetails come out of some smaller areas down into cattle farms that I haven't seen them in for probably 15 years or so. Also found a muley shed and some tracks around our tree grove where normally come late December if not earlier we never see a track. Seems from there original spots the winter some have been moving a bit and some deer traveling several miles to different areas which is really odd given the conditions. Can normally count on them staying in traditional wintering areas till mid April even early May then POOF gone.

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

The snow out west in ND hasn't been significant enough to majorly impact mule deer. It's the uncontrolled amount of archery tags and the high number of controlled non resident archery tags that's killing our mule deer and our trophy quality. Snow is the least of my concerns.

 

[NDGuy]

It's the uncontrolled amount of archery tags

Guessing this will be on the chopping block shortly in some form

 

[dirtytough]

The snow out west in ND hasn't been significant enough to majorly impact mule deer. It's the uncontrolled amount of archery tags and the high number of controlled non resident archery tags that's killing our mule deer and our trophy quality. Snow is the least of my concerns.

16+ days of rifle during the rut doesn't help much either. Hopefully ND will get with the times but I doubt it. It will be the same thing year after year. ND residents are getting what they want. If they wanted different they would put pressure on the game and fish to change it.

I haven't seen hardly any dead deer. I do know they are herded up way more than I have ever seen. There has been a decent amount of snow cover for a long time in a lot of western ND. I bet there will be a little more winterkill than normal but nothing like some of the mountain states. I also haven't seen hardly any roadkill. I think the snow has kept them back away from the roads since the ditches are drifted so deep.

 

[Gutshot007]

The snow out west in ND hasn't been significant enough to majorly impact mule deer. It's the uncontrolled amount of archery tags and the high number of controlled non resident archery tags that's killing our mule deer and our trophy quality. Snow is the least of my concerns.

I was looking at ND stats . Last year they gave out 810 NR any-deer archery tags . It is based on 15% of resident rifle tags . So they have some type of system to "control" NR numbers . I have a family member that is a resident and can pick up an any-deer archery tag over the counter . Any idea of how many "uncontrolled" resident tags otc are sold ? What do you think would be the optimal situation to improve trophy quality ?

 

[NDGuy]

I was looking at ND stats . Last year they gave out 810 NR any-deer archery tags . It is based on 15% of resident rifle tags . So they have some type of system to "control" NR numbers . I have a family member that is a resident and can pick up an any-deer archery tag over the counter . Any idea of how many "uncontrolled" resident tags otc are sold ? What do you think would be the optimal situation to improve trophy quality ?

810 any deer tags are basically mule deer tags focusing on 10% of the state when our mule deer numbers are iffy. So it’s quite a few tags in a concentrated area.

 

[Gutshot007]

I am a NR . Yes i agree basically a mule deer tag . For me mule deer in the west and whitetail later in the east . What percent vs 15% of resident rifle tags do you guys think is reasonable for NR any- deer archery ? I still am very curious how many residents mule deer archery hunt as well in the concentrated 10% of the state where they're (muleys) are at . NR's cant rifle hunt . Do alot of residents put in for rifle and if not drawn then do archery or both ? (havent studied resident regs)

 

[Huntin Fool]

I am a NR . Yes i agree basically a mule deer tag . For me mule deer in the west and whitetail later in the east . What percent vs 15% of resident rifle tags do you guys think is reasonable for NR any- deer archery ? I still am very curious how many residents mule deer archery hunt as well in the concentrated 10% of the state where they're (muleys) are at . NR's cant rifle hunt . Do alot of residents put in for rifle and if not drawn then do archery or both ? (havent studied resident regs)

Resident archery tags are good state wide and any deer, I’m guessing it’s hard to put a number on how many go west mule deer hunting but guess the percentage would be fairly high, especially the last few years. Also I would guess a high amount of residents apply for rifle and muzzle loader and then buy their archery tag no matter what. Also non residents can rifle hunt, but very few tags

 

[NDGuy]

What percent vs 15% of resident rifle tags do you guys think is reasonable for NR any- deer archery ?

following what other states are doing sub 10%.

 

[WCB]

810 any deer tags are basically mule deer tags focusing on 10% of the state when our mule deer numbers are iffy. So it’s quite a few tags in a concentrated area.

But what is the harvest rate? I know overal archery rate is 30ish% for all archery hunters regaurdless of species or sex. Im going out on a limb and saying mule deer rifle tags have a larger effect by a significant margin than NR archery tags. I believe rifle mule deer success is around 70-80%.
Mule deer population from NDGF were up last year and still above historic average by 30% or so....
IMO hunting out there for over 20yrs they need to #1 cut Mule Deer rifle tags across the board and shorten the season. ND resident friends I have say the same thing.

 

[nodakian]

Heavy snow the first week of rifle season may have been a benefit. It kept the pumpkin patrol from driving all the trails on public land where my kid and I hunted. Hardly any vehicles on the roads and no one walking. By mid January things had melted nicely, and I saw plenty of deer.

Separate topic, but the 16 day rifle season sucks. I don't have any brilliant ideas but something needs to be done to spread out the pressure.

 

[SDHNTR]

The snow out west in ND hasn't been significant enough to majorly impact mule deer. It's the uncontrolled amount of archery tags and the high number of controlled non resident archery tags that's killing our mule deer and our trophy quality. Snow is the least of my concerns.

Show me empirical data how these archery tags have more of an impact than rifle tags, or winter. No way I buy it. I’ve never seen archery mule deer tags anywhere make a meaningful impact on population. It’s too hard. Tag allotments don’t mean dead deer, filled tags do. Percentage wise, there aren’t many of those with archery tackle.

 

[Huntin Fool]

Show me empirical data how these archery tags have more of an impact than rifle tags, or winter. No way I buy it. I’ve never seen archery mule deer tags anywhere make a meaningful impact on population. It’s too hard. Tag allotments don’t mean dead deer, filled tags do. Percentage wise, there aren’t many of those with archery tackle.

In one aspect rifle tags are by unit, so given a competent game and fish agency if they issue a # of rifle tags in a given unit, then they should be happy with a certain amount of those tags filled. But with archery tags being non unit specific, it’s hard to manage where those tags are filled. What if only 8% (a random #) of archery hunters, tag mule deer and the majority get them in one or two “units”? Makes it pretty hard to regulate

 

[NDGuy]

IMO hunting out there for over 20yrs they need to #1 cut Mule Deer rifle tags across the board and shorten the season. ND resident friends I have say the same thing.

Both can be true. Archery hunters put heavy pressure on mule deer thanks to the huge growing interest in Western hunting. A lot of folks head west to chase Muley's (and nice whitey's) with a bow every Sept.

Kill nice bucks and push deer onto private where they'll never be touched, rifle or no rifle.

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

Show me empirical data how these archery tags have more of an impact than rifle tags, or winter. No way I buy it. I’ve never seen archery mule deer tags anywhere make a meaningful impact on population. It’s too hard. Tag allotments don’t mean dead deer, filled tags do. Percentage wise, there aren’t many of those with archery tackle.

I think a shift in perspective would make the image a bit clearer. I don't believe it's a numbers thing so much as a quality thing. I don't think the harvest stats with archery gear is much of a factor... however, with the large amount of people hitting public ground and the insane amount of easily accessed land. It forces mature bucks onto private in a very short order. It's not like this is a mountain state or even like some other prairie states that have alot of land that is far and wide without roads. Go ahead and find a spot in western ND that you can get 2 miles from a road, trail, or leased oil road, it's not possible. I've bowhunted the badlands for 17 years and the drop in trophy quality is staggering. Again, I think it's a perfect storm of unlimited resident archery tags, combined with an abundance of NR "any" tags that are treated as mule deer tags, pushing deer to private grounds, and a rifle season centered over the rut of November. That combined with the fact that nearly any landowner can get gratis tags and will use "ranching" as a means of driving both public land and his own land to fill his gratis tag. (Which is only supposed to be used on his land). These are not assumptions or guessing either. This is firsthand knowledge and having met many farmers and ranchers that simply don't care what the law says and openly admit to it.

Side note. Trophy quality is diminished to some extent from NR who get frustrated and shoot a 2 point buck in the badlands with a bow. (Not hard at all to do)

The current state of an area that I hunt and hold near and dear to my heart is very frustrating and very sad. It's not what it was 5 years ago. I'm sure the same can be said for many of you in western states as well and I empathize with you.