Norma golden target bullets?

[JGood]

Additionally, I’m no expert, but i just cut it in half and it looks an awful lot like every other match bullet that “wasn’t designed for killing”

 

[JGRaider]

Not sure why you didn't use the 143 Bondsrike? They shoot to same velocities and POI as the target bullets in my S20.

 

[wind gypsy]

Additionally, I’m no expert, but i just cut it in half and it looks an awful lot like every other match bullet that “wasn’t designed for killing”

That is a large void!

 

[TheViking]

Not sure why you didn't use the 143 Bondsrike? They shoot to same velocities and POI as the target bullets in my S20.

I agree with shooting a better bullet, but for me personally, the bond strikes didn't shoot great (maybe 1.5 MOA) from my Tikka and the Golden Targets shot like .25-.375 MOA.

 

[NSI]

My 143 golden target has some of the most atrocious SDs (30) and ES (60) that I've ever seen in factory "match" ammo.

-J

 

[JGood]

My 143 golden target has some of the most atrocious SDs (30) and ES (60) that I've ever seen in factory "match" ammo.

-J

That’s interesting, the below is what I shot before the hunt. I’ve only ever shot one lot so maybe I have a really good one.

 

[JGood]

Not sure why you didn't use the 143 Bondsrike? They shoot to same velocities and POI as the target bullets in my S20.

Price

 

[JGRaider]

Price

They're $32/box right now at Scheels, or at least they were yesterday.

 

[ElPollo]

Additionally, I’m no expert, but i just cut it in half and it looks an awful lot like every other match bullet that “wasn’t designed for killing”

It looks like a Scenar but the jacket might be a little thicker on the front end. And every other match bullet wasn’t designed for killing, but some will do a good job of it and some won’t. If I were to guess on that one, you’d see 4-5” of penetration before it started to fragment and the fragmentation would occur down to maybe 2100-2200 fps impact velocity. Below that it would tumble and stay intact. That’s not my ideal deer bullet because I want to do more than take out the offside lung and watch it run. It would also not be a bullet I would use on anything over 400 yards. I do not have the body count that Form has, but my take is that the tipped match bullets upset faster than those designed to tumble and fragment. Even the Bergers seem to have a longer ‘neck’ before upset in gel tests than tipped match bullets.

And finally, on the gel test videos earlier in the thread, pretty much all of the ‘promotional’ videos like these are totally useless for finding out how they perform on game. A) You’re unlikely to shoot a game animal at 10 yards, and B) the clear gel they are using is not a good substitute for meat. The optimal would be to do these tests in calibrated, organic gel at lower velocities, simulating impact at real hunting distances. But as is, the tests still provide some information. The long ‘neck’ in the wound channel in those videos makes me want to revise my guess at lower impact velocity upward to 2200-2400 fps and would make me pass on these for anything but range ammo.

 

[JGood]

I believe the gel used in the video is yellow organic. I also don’t think it matters what range and what speed as long as it is consistently compared bullet to bullet. i.e. bullets ABC look like this and bullets XYZ look like that when fired into the gel. The gel does not not show you what the bullet is expected to do at all impact velocities, nor is it meant to

 

[Formidilosus]

I believe the gel used in the video is yellow organic. I also don’t think it matters what range and what speed as long as it is consistently compared bullet to bullet. i.e. bullets ABC look like this and bullets XYZ look like that when fired into the gel. The gel does not not show you what the bullet is expected to do at all impact velocities, nor is it meant to

Gel shows what “X” bullet will do at “X” impact velocity and RPM. To be functionally useful, you absolutely need to see multiple of each bullet at least at high, medium, and lower end impact velocities.

 

[JGood]

Gel shows what “X” bullet will do at “X” impact velocity and RPM. To be functionally useful, you absolutely need to see multiple of each bullet at least at high, medium, and lower end impact velocities.

Sure, If the objective of the test is to show how “x” bullet behaves at different velocities.

But if the objective of the test is to compare a range of bullets, velocity should be standardized across the spectrum of the test, no?

My point in the last post was that if an individual wants to see how a Berger 156 COMPARES to a Norma 143 gt in ballistic gel, the bullets need to impact at roughly the same velocity.

Regardless, back to my original post…the wound cavity I saw on the caribou I shot with the 143 gt was similar to what was seen in the video….couple inches of penetration, lots of disruption, golfball exit wound.

 

[JGood]

That is a large void!

Pretty much the same as the SMK/SGK and other OTM bullets

 

[Formidilosus]

Sure, If the objective of the test is to show how “x” bullet behaves at different velocities.

But if the objective of the test is to compare a range of bullets, velocity should be standardized across the spectrum of the test, no?

Yes it should be standardized- which is why high, medium, and low impact velocities as different bullets can behave very differently as impact velocities change.

My point in the last post was that if an individual wants to see how a Berger 156 COMPARES to a Norma 143 gt in ballistic gel, the bullets need to impact at roughly the same velocity.

Yes. But at multiple impact velocities. The 143gr Golden Target can and will look very good at high impact velocities, and extremely variable at medium and low impact velocities.

 

[JGRaider]

I don't do ballistic gel tests, but I've shot about 20 hogs with the golden target so far, impact distances from 50-200 yards. I've shot them between the eyes, through the shoulders, behind shoulders, and in the asss. Never had one exit, and most died relatively quick. The bondstrike exits most every time.

 

[JGood]

Yes. But at multiple impact velocities. The 143gr Golden Target can and will look very good at high impact velocities, and extremely variable at medium and low impact velocities.

For sure. More data points is certainly better for drawing conclusions with higher confidence levels.

But are you suggesting that the 143 GT will be more variable than an SMK/SGK, Berger OTM/EOL, and ELDM/x in ballistic gel at velocities from 1600fps to 2100? How are you able to draw this conclusion?

 

[Formidilosus]

For sure. More data points is certainly better for drawing conclusions with higher confidence levels.

But are you suggesting that the 143 GT will be more variable than an SMK/SGK, Berger OTM/EOL, and ELDM/x in ballistic gel at velocities from 1600fps to 2100?

Yes they are much more variable than any of the tipped match projectiles, Bergers, and ELD-X’s. Some SMK’s are more consistent and some about as consistent in acceptable terminal behavior than Golden Targets.

How are you able to draw this conclusion?

Because I have seen hundreds in testing and animals.

 

[JGood]

Yes they are much more variable than any of the tipped match projectiles, Bergers, and ELD-X’s. Some SMK’s are more consistent and some about as consistent in acceptable terminal behavior than Golden Targets.



Because I have seen hundreds in testing and animals.

I’m not sure my question was phrased correctly. Are you saying you are drawing conclusions based on what you have seen and tested through hundreds of Golden Targets on animals and ballistic gel or are you drawing a conclusion based on the results you have seen from other similarly constructed bullets and applying it to Golden Target bullets?

 

[Formidilosus]

I’m not sure my question was phrased correctly. Are you saying you are drawing conclusions based on what you have seen and tested through hundreds of Golden Targets on animals and ballistic gel

Hundreds with all of the bullets you mentioned. Dozens with Golden Targets. Golden Targets behave much more similarly overall to narrow nose opening (not pointed) SMK’s, and they vary from bullet lot to lot in performance. They can kill exceptionally well, and they can create wounds with extremely long necks and very little upset. The lower the impact velocity, the worse the terminal performance.

 

[JGood]

Got it.

Is there a way to tell from the cross section I posted which of the two I have? At what velocity have you noticed variable results?