Non resident montana elk tag

[Tman24]

As @Fowl Play stated above, the rules is the rules.

I called FWP today and asked outright. Say I have 3 PP and my two hunting partners have 0. Is there any way for us to submit a group application where they are able to add 1 PP apiece? The guy, Ryan, said no. It seems like an unintended oversight when they wrote the regulation/rule if you ask me. Hard to believe they are passing up easy $$.

Well that’s because no one can have 3 points right now. 3 points was 100 % draw last year and if you didn’t apply and had 2 points you should have lost your points….

 

[Riplip]

Well that’s because no one can have 3 points right now. 3 points was 100 % draw last year and if you didn’t apply and had 2 points you should have lost your points….

There will be plenty of applications with three points. Anyone hunting with an outfitter can purchase an additional preference point at time of application, so if you had one point last year you would have three going into draw this year.

The reason FWP said that the two point holders in the example could not buy another point was because the maximum preference points you can have in MT is 3.

 

[fatlander]

There’s always the possibility that last year 3+1 averaged 2, and that party didn’t draw. 3 is still 3, and doesn’t have to apply with 1 that now can be 2.


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[Erict]

Well that’s because no one can have 3 points right now. 3 points was 100 % draw last year and if you didn’t apply and had 2 points you should have lost your points….

Say I had 2 PP prior to the draw. I did a group application with another hunter with 0 PP. We both applied for a PP and went in to last year's draw with an average of "2.000". If not drawn, I have 3 PP and the other hunter has 1 PP headed in to this year.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Why not let the guy with 0 pts create the party, buy his point, then give the party number to his buddies w 3 pts?

 

[Riplip]

Why not let the guy with 0 pts, create the party, buy his point, then give the party number to his buddies w 3 pts?

Because each party has to create their own application and the system will not let the person with 3pts purchase another point. If the applications in a party differ in any way, the applications will be seperated into individual and unique applications.

 

[Tman24]

Say I had 2 PP prior to the draw. I did a group application with another hunter with 0 PP. We both applied for a PP and went in to last year's draw with an average of "2.000". If not drawn, I have 3 PP and the other hunter has 1 PP headed in to this year.

You’re right!

 

[sneaky]

that 17000 is just the combo tag don’t forget the 5000 deer only tags sold, college kids can buy a tag, they have those dumb come home to hunt tags, landowner sponsor tags, the plethora of doe tags this state gives out is absurd! What was it the year before last there was a total of 60 some thousand non res tags given…. You can shove that 17000 number where the sun don’t shine. Montana should up the non res prices they get to have a general tag free for all for the entire state hopefully that will be coming to rest soon and they have to put in for a hd to hunt. In the mean time Why not make money on them when they will pay it! You out of staters only shoot yourselves in the foot because you continue to pay every time a state raises the price! Good luck though in your future endeavors

Good to know you come from a long line of whiners it appears. NR aren't the problem, just like they aren't in ID either. A booming resident population is where your problems are coming from, but you're too nearsighted to see that.

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[sneaky]

I hunt whenever we get a good snowstorm or the opening weekend. I’m definitely not in competition with nonresident hunters. I was just saying most resident hunters only hunt weekends due to work. You have to remember 80% of the elk are killed every year by 10-20% of the hunters, read that again so you understand.

Actually it's 90% of the elk are killed by 10% of the hunters. Sucks when you can't even get a burn right doesn't it?

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[Legion5430]

Good to know you come from a long line of whiners it appears. NR aren't the problem, just like they aren't in ID either. A booming resident population is where your problems are coming from, but you're too nearsighted to see that.

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After having three midwestern NR hunters drive in and park 20 yards from my camp while I was there and then proceed to hike into the elk bedding area that night to sleep so they could in their words "be where the elk are in the morning" (spoiler alert the elk weren't there for some reason), I started writing another post, but then I found this one. Since it appears some people can't use Google let me help you out.

From the 2022 MT legislative report (https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content...ature/2023/hb140report-25-biennium-update.pdf) see page 6

"Montana resident license sales trends have seen a slight decline as it relates to big game hunting license purchases. While most resident hunting license categories have decreased in sales, the base hunting licenses have remained steady, suggesting individual resident hunters are purchasing fewer licenses. The current trends indicate the number of resident hunters may be declining. Non-resident sales remain very strong with big game license sales reaching the statutory quota every year since FY2016."

Seeing as the population increased only .88% from 2022-23 it doesn't appear the facts support your uninformed opinion.
(https://www.macrotrends.net/global-...ation of Montana in,a 1.6% increase from 2019.)

I have no issue with NR hunters, I have and continue to hunt other states. What I have an issue with is any hunter who doesn't have manners and who doesn't do the most basic self-education on how to hunt the species they are hunting.

I am sure there are resident hunters who do these things, I have never seen them. What I have seen are the four 5th wheel mega-campers from pick your Midwest state, with a platoon's worth of side by sides and guys bombing up and down the road blowing a locator bugle every 200 yards without even turning the engine off.

I know you're gong to say "just hike back farther", that's a little harder to do every year since everyone with an OnX and access to youtube styles themselves a super hunter athlete. They can do lots of pushups with their ruck on yet still can't figure out that bugling every 30 seconds isn't really effective.

Bottom line is learn some basic manners, be respectful of other hunters, and don't go shooting your mouth off with uninformed opinions that are not supported by basic facts.

 

[WRC]

I have read the Montana regs but still a little confused. I would like to elk hunt 2024 in Montana. I dont think i will get things inorder to be a resident so right now i am looking for info on nonresident elk tag.

It looks like it will cost me about $1400 which sucks but is still cheaper than me going to NM for a guided hunt. From what I hear there is no way i will get drawn for the hard to get districts. But can i just buy a general tag and hunt areas that are "not a draw"? Also i MIGHT have access to some private land. Does that change anything? Also i am perfectly happy with a cow. Just want meat in the freezer and to build on my limited experience.

Just a little confused becouse i hear about people having no chance at certain draws without points and all that stuff.

Thanks for helping out the new guy.

I have hunted MT out of state twice. I might be able to help provide information

 

[TradLife406]

Good to know you come from a long line of whiners it appears. NR aren't the problem, just like they aren't in ID either. A booming resident population is where your problems are coming from, but you're too nearsighted to see that.

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Because selling 85,000 nr tags in 2021 is perfectly acceptable


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[Erict]

Because selling 85,000 nr tags in 2021 is perfectly acceptable

This is simply not true according to THIS, which shows relatively steady sales for 2019-2023. MT sold about 86000 base hunting licenses in 2021. A base hunting license is not a tag, rather a requirement to apply for a NR Elk, Deer, or Big Game (Elk+Deer) license. I may be wrong, but I think that requirement went in to effect in 2019.

 

[Indian Summer]

This is simply not true according to THIS, which shows relatively steady sales for 2019-2023. MT sold about 86000 base hunting licenses in 2021. A base hunting license is not a tag, rather a requirement to apply for a NR Elk, Deer, or Big Game (Elk+Deer) license. I may be wrong, but I think that requirement went in to effect in 2019.

He’s clueless don’t waste your breath.

 

[Neckbone]

Do you have any preference points right now for a general tag?

According to past years you have 0% chance to draw with 1 point.

They allow you to buy a point at the application so if you have 1 point you can buy 1, going into the draw with 2 points.

If you’re going guided you can buy 2 points at the time of application

Maximum preference points is 3, for now…

You have to apply every other year. If you don’t apply for 2 years then you lose your points.

Bonus points are for limited entry units.

Pretty simple ain’t it.

You must apply every year or you lose your points. If you have 1 point currently you must apply in 2025 or you lose the point. You wouldnt be able to bank a second point in 2025 without applying to hunt as well

 

[kswaterfowl]

After having three midwestern NR hunters drive in and park 20 yards from my camp while I was there and then proceed to hike into the elk bedding area that night to sleep so they could in their words "be where the elk are in the morning" (spoiler alert the elk weren't there for some reason), I started writing another post, but then I found this one. Since it appears some people can't use Google let me help you out.

From the 2022 MT legislative report (https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content...ature/2023/hb140report-25-biennium-update.pdf) see page 6

"Montana resident license sales trends have seen a slight decline as it relates to big game hunting license purchases. While most resident hunting license categories have decreased in sales, the base hunting licenses have remained steady, suggesting individual resident hunters are purchasing fewer licenses. The current trends indicate the number of resident hunters may be declining. Non-resident sales remain very strong with big game license sales reaching the statutory quota every year since FY2016."

Seeing as the population increased only .88% from 2022-23 it doesn't appear the facts support your uninformed opinion.
(https://www.macrotrends.net/global-...ation of Montana in,a 1.6% increase from 2019.)

I have no issue with NR hunters, I have and continue to hunt other states. What I have an issue with is any hunter who doesn't have manners and who doesn't do the most basic self-education on how to hunt the species they are hunting.

I am sure there are resident hunters who do these things, I have never seen them. What I have seen are the four 5th wheel mega-campers from pick your Midwest state, with a platoon's worth of side by sides and guys bombing up and down the road blowing a locator bugle every 200 yards without even turning the engine off.

I know you're gong to say "just hike back farther", that's a little harder to do every year since everyone with an OnX and access to youtube styles themselves a super hunter athlete. They can do lots of pushups with their ruck on yet still can't figure out that bugling every 30 seconds isn't really effective.

Bottom line is learn some basic manners, be respectful of other hunters, and don't go shooting your mouth off with uninformed opinions that are not supported by basic facts.

This seems to be a common problem everywhere. There are a lot of people that have no hunting etiquette. My old man was a worthless drunk, but that is one thing he taught me. Don't ruin someone else's hunt, and don't ask permission to hunt a spot someone else took you to.

 

[The Guide]

Because selling 85,000 nr tags in 2021 is perfectly acceptable


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Good to know you come from a long line of whiners it appears. NR aren't the problem, just like they aren't in ID either. A booming resident population is where your problems are coming from, but you're too nearsighted to see that.

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This is simply not true according to THIS, which shows relatively steady sales for 2019-2023. MT sold about 86000 base hunting licenses in 2021. A base hunting license is not a tag, rather a requirement to apply for a NR Elk, Deer, or Big Game (Elk+Deer) license. I may be wrong, but I think that requirement went in to effect in 2019.

He’s clueless don’t waste your breath.

Using the data at the link provided, I calculated the actual number of big game harvest tags sold to NR hunters in 2021. Some people will have held multiple tags but these are the actual numbers of tags to kill a big game animal sold. Each Big Game combination counts for 2 tags (1 deer and 1 elk) and all the rest count for 1. I included deer A, deer B, elk A, elk B, antelope, antelope B, bear, moose, sheep, mountain goat, and bison. I did not include wolf or mountain lion as those are not primary big game tags that seem to be in conflict.

The number of big game harvest tags sold in 2021 was 72,320 tags across all big game species. That number is a hell of a lot higher than I though it would be based on what our fish and game tells us. No wonder we are seeing a decline in game populations in easy to access regions. Of the tags sold, 24,178 were elk tags (both elk A and elk B) and 42,595 were deer tags (both deer A and deer B). While this is not indicative of the the amount of people on the landscape it does show the harvest potential those people with tags had. Wonder if Idaho or Wyoming is selling close to 67,000 non resident deer and elk harvest tags? This is why the people of Montana have issue with nonresident hunters.

Jay

 

[fatlander]

Using the data at the link provided, I calculated the actual number of big game harvest tags sold to NR hunters in 2021. Some people will have held multiple tags but these are the actual numbers of tags to kill a big game animal sold. Each Big Game combination counts for 2 tags (1 deer and 1 elk) and all the rest count for 1. I included deer A, deer B, elk A, elk B, antelope, antelope B, bear, moose, sheep, mountain goat, and bison. I did not include wolf or mountain lion as those are not primary big game tags that seem to be in conflict.

The number of big game harvest tags sold in 2021 was 72,320 tags across all big game species. That number is a hell of a lot higher than I though it would be based on what our fish and game tells us. No wonder we are seeing a decline in game populations in easy to access regions. Of the tags sold, 24,178 were elk tags (both elk A and elk B) and 42,595 were deer tags (both deer A and deer B). While this is not indicative of the the amount of people on the landscape it does show the harvest potential those people with tags had. Wonder if Idaho or Wyoming is selling close to 67,000 non resident deer and elk harvest tags? This is why the people of Montana have issue with nonresident hunters.

Jay

Frankly, most states don’t really care who kills antlerless animals. They just care that they get killed.

B tags are allocated through draws and OTC depending on the tag. The draw tags have an established maximum of 10% of the tags going to NR, just like antlered limited entry tags. OTC is just that, OTC.

What’s the issue here?


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[The Guide]

Frankly, most states don’t really care who kills antlerless animals. They just care that they get killed.

B tags are allocated through draws and OTC depending on the tag. The draw tags have an established maximum of 10% of the tags going to NR, just like antlered limited entry tags. OTC is just that, OTC.

What’s the issue here?


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The issue is that the FWP tells residents one thing about nonresident hunter numbers and then the data released doesn't match. The issue is the number of people on the landscape. The issue is people who don't care or don't even know that there are rules to follow when accessing public lands. They drive by a sign that says "stay on main road" and drive down everything that looks like it might have been a trail at one time unless it has a barrier or a sign saying dont drive here. Sorry that there is no BLM or National Forest lands where you are from so you didn't grow up accessing public lands and you don't understand how to read a map or even know where to buy the right access maps.

Deer/elk B tags are only 13,561 and 3,565 tags respectively. That is still over 49,500 deer and elk A tags sold. No matter how you slice it, it is way more tags than we, as resident hunters, were lead to believe were being sold.

Jay

 

[fatlander]

The issue is that the FWP tells residents one thing about nonresident hunter numbers and then the data released doesn't match. The issue is the number of people on the landscape. The issue is people who don't care or don't even know that there are rules to follow when accessing public lands. They drive by a sign that says "stay on main road" and drive down everything that looks like it might have been a trail at one time unless it has a barrier or a sign saying dont drive here. Sorry that there is no BLM or National Forest lands where you are from so you didn't grow up accessing public lands and you don't understand how to read a map or even know where to buy the right access maps.

Deer/elk B tags are only 13,561 and 3,565 tags respectively. That is still over 49,500 deer and elk A tags sold. No matter how you slice it, it is way more tags than we, as resident hunters, were lead to believe were being sold.

Jay

40,000 of those A tags are statutorily required.

Come home to hunt and college students must be filling the rest of the void.

There’s public land where I’m from, and some of us can read. I don’t see many people at all where I hunt in Montana. The only people I’ve ever seen blatantly violating motor vehicle usage restrictions were residents. YMMV.


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