Non-reloaders without a chronograph, how do you zero?

[Macintosh]

Agree 100% theres multiple ways to approach, all of which have merit. If you dont even aspire to shoot beyond 300 or 400, then some version of taperpins method works, and works well. I dont agree with a 300-yard zero, and even on a pretty flat-shooting cartridge I think the error this introduces, on top of all the other field shooting errors, is a legitimate factor that people typically dont account for because their typical shot is at a gigantic target like an elk, as opposed to something half the size like a smaller deer. Consequently, while I fundamentally do the same thing, I dont like to push the limits of what a mpbr zero does, and consider it a “passable at best” technique for 400 yard shooting, a “very good” way of approaching things out to 300, and “by far, hands down the best way” out to 250. I personally zero at 100 to avoid any zeroing error from environmentals, but I want my poi to be exactly .4 mil high. This lets me hold dead-on out to 250 or so and poi is never more than 2” off poa. I know people push this technique with good success, but I think doing so takes time and practice and I have found becomes less easy/simple under pressure than people make it out to be.

BUT if you are even talking about a solver Im assuming you are not limiting yourself to 400 yards, so I dont think a mpbr zero is helpful here. I zero at 100 with at least 10 rounds to get a zero to the nearest click. Then I plug in box velocity adjusted for barrel length (25fps/inch) and go straight to the longest range I have access to, fire a 10-round group, and I use the velocity-truing function of the solver. Doing this, my dope has always been within a tenth inside the distance I trued at. No chrono, no handloads, just two 10-round groups. This may not be the best way at 1500 yards, but it has worked very well for me out to 800 or so, which is way further than Id shoot a critter.
If I then want a mpbr zero to walk around with I just dial .4mils (or whatever you deem appropriate) and walk around that way.

 

[hereinaz]

Im not in anyway a fan of 300yd zeros. Ive guided and been with guys that shoot over animals. Even more so when they have multiple rifles zeroed at different yardages.

I just get a solid 100yd zero. Use the box data in an app to get a chart and shoot at distance. Then measure real drop and enter the actual correct in the app and it spits out the new dope numbers. I then shoot to confirm.

If actually hunting you can always dial for 200 and 0-300 your pretty much good to go. If you dont have ballistic reticle of some sort I alwayd dial 400yds and out.

I agree with you. Dialing on 200 dope is usually solid out to 300. That is functionality like a 36 yard zero. A 36 yard zero is gonna kill deer holding center of vitals.

Too many hunters get all wound up and don’t understand what they are doing. The range shows it.

The best way for most is to zero at 100 then dial on the point blank zero.

I disagree on one point, shooting over animals is mostly not a function of the zero they use… it’s cause they suck as riflemen. They are jerking the trigger and recoil is pushing it over the animal.

 

[Macintosh]

A 300 yard zero with my 270 hits 1.1 mils high at 100. Thats about 3.5”. No one is shooting over the back of an animal at 100 ONLY because of that, but if that error is stacked on top of other errors it certainly doesnt help. I know folks who use a really long zero-range like this usually also hold under to account for it, but that takes some real serious time behind the rifle to do consistently in the heat of the moment. Thats exactly what I was getting at above with my preference for a **minimal** mpbr zero where its appropriate.

 

[The Harbor Master]

Agree 100% theres multiple ways to approach, all of which have merit. If you dont even aspire to shoot beyond 300 or 400, then some version of taperpins method works, and works well. I dont agree with a 300-yard zero, and even on a pretty flat-shooting cartridge I think the error this introduces, on top of all the other field shooting errors, is a legitimate factor that people typically dont account for because their typical shot is at a gigantic target like an elk, as opposed to something half the size like a smaller deer. Consequently, while I fundamentally do the same thing, I dont like to push the limits of what a mpbr zero does, and consider it a “passable at best” technique for 400 yard shooting, a “very good” way of approaching things out to 300, and “by far, hands down the best way” out to 250. I personally zero at 100 to avoid any zeroing error from environmentals, but I want my poi to be exactly .4 mil high. This lets me hold dead-on out to 250 or so and poi is never more than 2” off poa. I know people push this technique with good success, but I think doing so takes time and practice and I have found becomes less easy/simple under pressure than people make it out to be.

BUT if you are even talking about a solver Im assuming you are not limiting yourself to 400 yards, so I dont think a mpbr zero is helpful here. I zero at 100 with at least 10 rounds to get a zero to the nearest click. Then I plug in box velocity adjusted for barrel length (25fps/inch) and go straight to the longest range I have access to, fire a 10-round group, and I use the velocity-truing function of the solver. Doing this, my dope has always been within a tenth inside the distance I trued at. No chrono, no handloads, just two 10-round groups. This may not be the best way at 1500 yards, but it has worked very well for me out to 800 or so, which is way further than Id shoot a critter.
If I then want a mpbr zero to walk around with I just dial .4mils (or whatever you deem appropriate) and walk around that way.

What calculator are you using for your process? I've been using federal or hornadys online calculator but I don't think I can enter my drops in order to find velocity. Or if I can, I haven't figured it out. I am starting to lean towards 100yd zero and knowing my drops from there to simplify it, rather than my current "idk it's probably right around a 250yd zero"

 

[Macintosh]

Using applied ballistics. Although they majorly changed it recently and I havent trued anything since, so not certain if or how that aspect has changed. Ab usually recommends 3 different truing distances based on the velocity and bc you first enter.

 

[The Harbor Master]

Using applied ballistics. Although they majorly changed it recently and I havent trued anything since, so not certain if or how that aspect has changed. Ab usually recommends 3 different trying distances based on the velocity and bc you first enter.

Copy that, thank you. I'll put in some practice this spring and hopefully will post a thread about my successes!

(Maybe even with a Rokstock if the stars align)

 

[hereinaz]

Using applied ballistics. Although they majorly changed it recently and I havent trued anything since, so not certain if or how that aspect has changed. Ab usually recommends 3 different truing distances based on the velocity and bc you first enter.

“truing” of the ballistic calculator isn’t really required until 1000 plus yards. See the screen shot from AB.

Get your perfect 100 yard zero and enter the box BC in G1 or G7. Use box velocity and then go shoot out as far as you want at different ranges.

You can “true” your velocity (but really leave BC alone because errors matters so little compared to velocity.)

If you are always high, decrease velocity. If you are always low, increase velocity.

Favor the further distances if you need to. In other words, if you are a bit high at 200 but right on at 500, ignore 200. But if you are right on at 200 but low at 500 then increase velocity.

But, in reality if you shot 20 at each distance you’d probably fall right in line.

 

[Macintosh]

Hereinaz we’re saying the same thing. I dont touch bc, im truing velocity. Its a built-in function in all the calculators Ive used and allows getting a good solution without a chrono.