Nock tuning vs Group Tuning

[nettereo16]

What is the consensus on here?

Shoot bare shafts and turn the nocks until consistent through paper or impact? Or shoot fletched groups and then turn nocks for any arrows that don’t consistently group?

Where do you fit this into your tuning steps? After bareshaft tuning the bow? It’s more arrow tuning to your bow than tuning your bow to your arrows.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

My general tuning procedure is: get in the ballpark by shooting through paper at close range > refine by comparing bareshafts vs. fletched shafts at 20-30 yds > finalize by comparing broadheads vs. field points out to ≈60 yds.

I don't nock tune every arrow, only those that consistently deviate from the rest of the group. If I find a consistent flier, I shoot that particular arrow through paper and choose the nock orientation that yields the best tear. If it still won't hit with the group, I draw an X on the vanes and reserve that arrow for practice only.

 

[Zac]

Turning nocks on a bare shaft is a complete waste of time. As stated above only turn the problem child.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I’ve never had to do any of that. I prefer to spend my time on other things that actually matter.

 

[mod-it]

My last set of 3d arrows I actually took the time to shoot them all as bareshafts through paper. Got them all making the same tear, marked them, and fletched. After they were fletched I shot them all through paper again and four or five of them were making different tears from each other. I wasn't real impressed with that result after the time it took to bareshaft nock tune the whole dozen.

I like to nock tune them as fletched arrows at 30 yards. I just shoot groups, with 4 or 5 arrows at a time, and eliminate the ones that hit POA and rotate nocks and try them again on the ones that don't. I go through the whole dozen until done.

Sometimes there may be an arrow or two that will not come into the group after trying to rotate the nock per the 3 vane locations. I recently saw in a Tim Gillingham video that often these arrows can be "saved" by refletching them with new vanes between the old vane locations and then trying nock tuning again. I have that filed away for future reference but haven't tried it myself yet.

 

[butcherboy]

Nock tuning bare shafts is a waste of time. You tune them then fletch them. Watch how that changes everything. Best to paper tune fletched arrows then nock tune in groups. Personally, I have never nock tuned anything. I don’t shoot any competitions and just shoot 3d courses for fun and to get me ready for hunting season. The rest of the year I just shoot a bag target or 3 d target in my backyard.

 

[Zac]

I think most people turning nocks are chasing their ass. Most of them including myself will have difficulty shooting the exact same hole with the same shaft over, and over again. I think it’s best to number your shafts and keep a sort of basic log. If you notice that over 3-4 sessions the same arrow is hitting outside the group then you can turn a nock.

 

[dkime]

What is the consensus on here?

Shoot bare shafts and turn the nocks until consistent through paper or impact? Or shoot fletched groups and then turn nocks for any arrows that don’t consistently group?

Where do you fit this into your tuning steps? After bareshaft tuning the bow? It’s more arrow tuning to your bow than tuning your bow to your arrows.

Nock tuning and group tuning are two very different things and neither can or should be employed on hunting arrow.

I install thousands of nocks into shafts each year. I have never rotated a single nock inside of a shaft by more than 1/3 rotation on my personal arrows. It gets installed in the proper orientation for vane alignment and a new nock gets installed when they need replaced. The alignment features of the nocks cannot and shouldn’t be expected to withstand the friction of “nock tuning”



This industry has a lot of tuning methodology being employed to sell solutions for problems that were created to sell solutions for problems, etc etc copy and paste.


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[Mighty Mouse]

The alignment features of the nocks cannot and shouldn’t be expected to withstand the friction of “nock tuning”

Are you saying that nocks aren't physically strong enough to withstand the torque required to rotate the nock inside the shaft? I realize these are two different types of loading (compression vs. torque), but it seems odd to me that a nock could be strong enough to handle hundreds of arrow launches but too weak to handle being rotated a couple times while nock tuning.

This industry has a lot of tuning methodology being employed to sell solutions for problems that were created to sell solutions for problems, etc etc copy and paste.

I agree that there are a lot of solutions to non-existent problems out there, but what product is anyone selling by advocating nock tuning? Preemptively nock tuning every arrow is largely a waste of time IMO (better to just address problem arrows if/when they show up), but it's only time you're spending by doing so.

 

[5MilesBack]

The alignment features of the nocks cannot and shouldn’t be expected to withstand the friction of “nock tuning”

What do you mean "friction" of nock tuning?

I never nock tune BS's. I put my arrows together, make sure they spin true, and then shoot them......a lot, mostly at 40 yards. It's pretty easy to see when an arrow isn't hitting where it's supposed to. I'll nock that arrow then turn it to the next fletch orientation and shoot it again. Then keep turning until it does hit where it's supposed to. I'd guess that 9 times out of 10 those arrows will eventually hit my aiming line just changing the orientation until I find the right one. For the 1 out of 10 that still don't hit right, I'll try a new nock and start over. In almost 20 years I've had maybe 3-4 arrows that still won't play right after that. I shoot those arrows through hard stuff for BH and arrow testing.

 

[dkime]

Are you saying that nocks aren't physically strong enough to withstand the torque required to rotate the nock inside the shaft? I realize these are two different types of loading (compression vs. torque), but it seems odd to me that a nock could be strong enough to handle hundreds of arrow launches but too weak to handle being rotated a couple times while nock tuning.


I agree that there are a lot of solutions to non-existent problems out there, but what product is anyone selling by advocating nock tuning? Preemptively nock tuning every arrow is largely a waste of time IMO (better to just address problem arrows if/when they show up), but it's only time you're spending by doing so.

Oh no it’s neither of those things, we use AAE IP4 nocks on all of our shafts. So what I’m referring too are the features molded into the nock that are intended to keep the nock as concentric as possible to the ID of the shaft. They’re teeny tiny ridges for lack of a better term. From my experience the more that you rotate a nock, the more wear that ridges begin to experience and ultimately begin to flatten out. I’ve not seen an issue at all with them having this issue while shooting, but again I replace my nocks often enough that I really don’t anticipate seeing an issue.


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[dkime]

What do you mean "friction" of nock tuning?

I never nock tune BS's. I put my arrows together, make sure they spin true, and then shoot them......a lot, mostly at 40 yards. It's pretty easy to see when an arrow isn't hitting where it's supposed to. I'll nock that arrow then turn it to the next fletch orientation and shoot it again. Then keep turning until it does hit where it's supposed to. I'd guess that 9 times out of 10 those arrows will eventually hit my aiming line just changing the orientation until I find the right one. For the 1 out of 10 that still don't hit right, I'll try a new nock and start over. In almost 20 years I've had maybe 3-4 arrows that still won't play right after that. I shoot those arrows through hard stuff for BH and arrow testing.

This is exactly what I do, and our sample size is about the same in terms of shafts I’ve had to cull over the last 15 years. Typically my issues revolved around pin nocks if I’m being truthful.

I’m gonna speak only on our shafts and our nocks because that’s obviously the most data I’ve got. Our HD shafts have an ID of .166 and the IP4 nock has a major diameter on the highest point of the ridges of around .167”. That’s only 1/2 thou of interference across a very small cross section that’s being used to keep the nocks concentric. From my experience it doesn’t take very many rotations to essentially wipe away that 1/2 thou of interference. I’ll see if I can snap some pics today to try and illustrate.


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[Dennis]

I think you can use any method you like and anything that improves your arrow flight especially with hunting arrows (broadheads) is well worth your time. I bare shaft shoot every shaft and rarely need to make any nock adjustments, but I do mark the nock tune as a reference if I have to replace a nock. If my bare shaft flies straight then so does my fletched arrow with a broadhead.

 

[5MilesBack]

This is exactly what I do, and our sample size is about the same in terms of shafts I’ve had to cull over the last 15 years. Typically my issues revolved around pin nocks if I’m being truthful.

I stopped using pin nocks quite some time ago, they were a pain in my behind.

The Bohning A nocks that I use also have those ridges on the nocks, but I've never had an issue with them flattening. Of course they only get turned 1/3 or 1/4 1-3 times, and that's only for the arrows that need it. Then they're in place until I need to replace one.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Oh no it’s neither of those things, we use AAE IP4 nocks on all of our shafts. So what I’m referring too are the features molded into the nock that are intended to keep the nock as concentric as possible to the ID of the shaft. They’re teeny tiny ridges for lack of a better term. From my experience the more that you rotate a nock, the more wear that ridges begin to experience and ultimately begin to flatten out. I’ve not seen an issue at all with them having this issue while shooting, but again I replace my nocks often enough that I really don’t anticipate seeing an issue.

Gotcha. I could see how rotating a nock too many times could wear down those ridges and cause a loose or non-concentric fit inside the shaft. IMO/IME a few rotations during nock tuning isn't going to cause a problem.

 

[Bergy-Bowsmith]

I have a article that breaks this down way way more in depth for my process but the overview would be the following.

bare shaft though paper 3-9-15 yards till perfection , mark and fletch, group tune to maximum effective range, check with broadheads. "

Again there is way more information to be had and given on this topic but that all explained elsewhere. this is just the 2 min elevator answer to the question.