No refund if 23 changes to no nonresidents

[ddavis_1313]

This guy has the right attitude!

Hopefully it won't come to that but unfortunately as strong as the science is to NOT close 23/26A the board can vote their" feelings" and dismiss scientific input from the Fed land mangers and the State.

All I know is we are going. Hell or high water. I’m not going to let someone’s feelings ruin a trip. I guarantee you if we see caribou within a reasonable hiking distance and we can get in front of them, they will get shot. Period. That’s all I’m gonna say. Lol


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[ddavis_1313]

Did want to ask about tent recommendations. I have a big Agnes UL fly creek 2 right now and use it in Colorado for elk. My wife and I stayed in it comfortably last year for 11 nights. I’d like to upgrade it since we are flying out of Kotzebue on sep 9. Wife wants a hard horned bou with a white cape. Will be getting a Hilleberg for sure. My question is should I shell out for the black label and get the baddest of the baddest or would a red label suffice? Right now looking at the nammatj 2 GT


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[bmrfish]

Did want to ask about tent recommendations. I have a big Agnes UL fly creek 2 right now and use it in Colorado for elk. My wife and I stayed in it comfortably last year for 11 nights. I’d like to upgrade it since we are flying out of Kotzebue on sep 9. Wife wants a hard horned bou with a white cape. Will be getting a Hilleberg for sure. My question is should I shell out for the black label and get the baddest of the baddest or would a red label suffice? Right now looking at the nammatj 2 GT


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We had a similar choice and went with a seek outside tipi. Love the room, the weight and the lightweight stove.


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[Short Track]

The outfitter needs to be sued, & then his information needs to go viral. He can't take your money if he can't legally guide you.

 

[wind gypsy]

My reading comprehension fails at times but the Original Post of this thread seems to indicate the OP was inquiring about a hunt with an outfitter who told them up front they will keep the deposit if change in law prohibits the hunt from happening. Yet, here we are talking about how we need to cancel/sue/etc the outfitter like they are screwing someone rather than stating their terms for a 2 way deal up front.. Tough crowd.

I don't envy any non-locals grinding to make a living as a transporter based in Kotz..

 

[jmike]

Who is the Outfitter that wont refund...?

 

[TXCO]

Deposits should be rolled to a new hunt (best solution for everyone) or refunded if the hunt can't occur. You're paying for a service (or good) you didnt receive. If it is months or years before the hunt occurs, the outfitter hasn't even had any direct expenses such as fuel, food, day rates, etc. Alaska is also not like Canada where the outfitter has had to buy the area they hunt and usually has a loan to pay for it. I dont see any other line of business where this happens without someone declaring bankruptcy.

I agree its hell being an outfitter at times, especially when the government, insurance, locals and others are making life more difficult. The only other solution I can think of is for an outfitter build trip insurance into their costs making it mandatory. I just dont like how some outfitters tell clients they have to buy trip insurance because they'll never receive their deposit back even if its the outfitter's fault or regulation changes. To me its a copout. Also, all trip insurance prices have skyrocketed due to covid.

 

[william schmaltz]

Deposits should be rolled to a new hunt (best solution for everyone) or refunded if the hunt can't occur. You're paying for a service (or good) you didnt receive. If it is months or years before the hunt occurs, the outfitter hasn't even had any direct expenses such as fuel, food, day rates, etc. Alaska is also not like Canada where the outfitter has had to buy the area they hunt and usually has a loan to pay for it. I don't see any other line of business where this happens without someone declaring bankruptcy.

The situation in GMU 23 is indeed different. People seem to be under the impression that if federal lands in 23 are shut down to non locals, then there is simply no hunting and the outfitters close their doors. There are still plenty of places to successfully hunt caribou. So, if the hunter does not show up to hunt, that's on the hunter. I was hunting in 23 out of a personal plane in 2016 when fed lands were shut down. We flew a TON and there were plenty of caribou in legal zones and the guys that showed up were successful.

If fed land is shut down, they will still have several guys willing to nut up and hunt. So they will still have the same expenses. Hangar lease; payments on vehicles and airplanes; insurance; and annuals. Those are just a few of the big items that won't just go away even if the whole season is called off. Don't forget house payments and keeping food on the table.

The OP and another post have stated the outfitter (or outfitters) is being up front about how refunds will be handled in the event of a closure and a no show by the hunter. I don't see a problem here if everything is agreed upon up front. And just by looking at this thread, there are people rightfully willing to take the risk on it.

 

[TXCO]

The situation in GMU 23 is indeed different. People seem to be under the impression that if federal lands in 23 are shut down to non locals, then there is simply no hunting and the outfitters close their doors. There are still plenty of places to successfully hunt caribou. So, if the hunter does not show up to hunt, that's on the hunter. I was hunting in 23 out of a personal plane in 2016 when fed lands were shut down. We flew a TON and there were plenty of caribou in legal zones and the guys that showed up were successful.

If fed land is shut down, they will still have several guys willing to nut up and hunt. So they will still have the same expenses. Hangar lease; payments on vehicles and airplanes; insurance; and annuals. Those are just a few of the big items that won't just go away even if the whole season is called off. Don't forget house payments and keeping food on the table.

The OP and another post have stated the outfitter (or outfitters) is being up front about how refunds will be handled in the event of a closure and a no show by the hunter. I don't see a problem here if everything is agreed upon up front. And just by looking at this thread, there are people rightfully willing to take the risk on it.

If the outfitter can take the hunter and there are places to hunt then there is no issue.

 

[Dexter Grayson]

I see cancel culture has made it on to Rokslide, pretty sad. It’s also pretty apparent that most of the comments are from guys that have not hunted AK, let alone NW AK.

 

[tdot]

Why are guys complaining about an upfront, honest Outfitter. The guy informed his potential client about the potential risk. It is the clients choice to take the risk or not.

That is 100% fairplay. End of story.

 

[buzzy]

Why are guys complaining about an upfront, honest Outfitter. The guy informed his potential client about the potential risk. It is the clients choice to take the risk or not.

That is 100% fairplay. End of story.

I don’t believe that’s what occurred. They booked a hunt prior to anyone saying the unit could be closed down. Now that it might the outfitter is saying sorry but I’m keeping your deposit if it is closed down. Complete BS by the outfitter as I haven’t seen anywhere in this thread saying the hunters knew about the no deposit refund if the unit is closed up front.

If the outfitter did in fact have this in their contract then it is totally FairPlay but that’s not how I interpret what the OP is saying.

 

[tdot]

I don’t believe that’s what occurred. They booked a hunt prior to anyone saying the unit could be closed down. Now that it might the outfitter is saying sorry but I’m keeping your deposit if it is closed down. Complete BS by the outfitter as I haven’t seen anywhere in this thread saying the hunters knew about the no deposit refund if the unit is closed up front.

If the outfitter did in fact have this in their contract then it is totally FairPlay but that’s not how I interpret what the OP is saying.

OP only stated that he is "talking to an outiftter" and he is questioning whether or not he should pay (the deposit) to the reputable outiftter. He doesn't mention having booked a hunt.

My impression was that this was a conversation prior to signing a contract or paying a deposit. Maybe I missed the mark, but that's how I interpreted the OP's position.

 

[Josey D]

Did want to ask about tent recommendations. I have a big Agnes UL fly creek 2 right now and use it in Colorado for elk. My wife and I stayed in it comfortably last year for 11 nights. I’d like to upgrade it since we are flying out of Kotzebue on sep 9. Wife wants a hard horned bou with a white cape. Will be getting a Hilleberg for sure. My question is should I shell out for the black label and get the baddest of the baddest or would a red label suffice? Right now looking at the nammatj 2 GT


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The nammatj 2GT will be fine. Used one for 12 years with out issue from 26, to 23, to 8. We broke down & pickued up a 3GT a couple years ago & I don't like the new design of the doors where the black elastic holds the rain & will drip in when you open the door. Not a good rain design, but the tent is good. Just dont' use a ground sheet / foot print in your vestibule.

 

[william schmaltz]

They booked a hunt prior to anyone saying the unit could be closed down. Now that it might the outfitter is saying sorry but I’m keeping your deposit if it is closed down.

for the 3rd time nice and loud for the people in the back, everyone repeat after me before typing any more responses:

THE UNIT DOESN'T CLOSE DOWN! anyone who books a hunt can go hunt no matter what the fed subsistence board decides.

 

[Wapiti151]

I'm planning a hunt with GE now. Given the language in the contract and the current political environment, I don't expect a refund. I've asked (today) if the deposit can be used for a different hunt should the unit get closed. If they agree to do that I'll be happy. I don't think I could ask for anything more. They're actively urging you to understand the risk associated with booking right now and they have to operate a business.

TodOz, curious as to what the answer was here from GE. I just booked a ‘22 drop in hunt with them, and was planning on sending them an email asking the same thing. Don’t want to bombard them with the same question, if they’ve answered it for you. I’ll be a resident by the time this hunt rolls around so, but my three buddies won’t be. We plan on hunting no matter what, but have been watching this issue a bit. Thanks I’m advance!

 

[TodOz]

TodOz, curious as to what the answer was here from GE. I just booked a ‘22 drop in hunt with them, and was planning on sending them an email asking the same thing. Don’t want to bombard them with the same question, if they’ve answered it for you. I’ll be a resident by the time this hunt rolls around so, but my three buddies won’t be. We plan on hunting no matter what, but have been watching this issue a bit. Thanks I’m advance!

They recommend buying trip insurance from either AIG or RIPCord if you are worried about the DOI trying for another attempt at a closure. They didn't answer my question about using the deposit for a different hunt. I did speak with one of the pilots on the phone and he was clearly of the opinion that 23 would be open next year. I'm booking regardless but I would certainly feel better if they would allow my deposit to be used for an alternate hunt if they end up closing 23.

 

[Wapiti151]

They recommend buying trip insurance from either AIG or RIPCord if you are worried about the DOI trying for another attempt at a closure. They didn't answer my question about using the deposit for a different hunt. I did speak with one of the pilots on the phone and he was clearly of the opinion that 23 would be open next year. I'm booking regardless but I would certainly feel better if they would allow my deposit to be used for an alternate hunt if they end up closing 23.

I appreciate the reply. I saw that on the contract, that they recommended trip insurance. May get, just in case. Yeah I booked, and we will be hunting. From what I understand, even if they do close it, there will still be options available. Seems like the common theory I have been reading is that it won't get pushed really hard again until 2023. Who knows. Only can worry about what we can control, and that's getting ready for an epic adventure.

What dates are you looking to book? We did first week of September

 

[TodOz]

I appreciate the reply. I saw that on the contract, that they recommended trip insurance. May get, just in case. Yeah I booked, and we will be hunting. From what I understand, even if they do close it, there will still be options available. Seems like the common theory I have been reading is that it won't get pushed really hard again until 2023. Who knows. Only can worry about what we can control, and that's getting ready for an epic adventure.

What dates are you looking to book? We did first week of September

16-22 September.

 

[Wapiti151]

16-22 September.

nice, good luck!!