Newbie questions

[Stonewall308]

Hey guys, I am a long time hunter currently living in Virginia. I recently got the western bug and for about the last month I have been researching points and applications in Colorado, Wyoming, New Mexico, Oregon, etc.

My goal is to start doing some cool western hunts over the next 12 years (I'm currently 38). So based on my preliminary research, I've decided I'm going to start buying preference points for Elk, Mule Deer, and Antelope in Wyoming, and for Elk and Mule Deer in Colorado. I am also going to start buying Wyoming youth points for my son when he turns 11. I'm thinking I want to do my first western hunt in 2022 at the latest, and maybe go every other year after that.

So I contacted an outfitter based in western Wyoming regarding a potential elk hunt. I was thinking if I find out in May 2021 that I drew the tag, I could already have an outfitter lined up and book right away. Well, it turns out they are almost full for 2022. Is this normal?? I'm having a hard time swallowing the idea of putting over $1k on a deposit to hold a hunt that is about 2 and a half years away, when I don't even know that I will get a tag. This outfitter recently had some exposure on a popular show, so I am wondering if that is the reason.

Other questions:
1. What is the best way to find a good outfitter?
2. If you were starting right now, what out-of-state tags would you start buying? Obviously there are tags I can essentially never draw now because of point creep.
3. What other recommendations do you have?

 

[Wapiti1]

Yes, it is common for the better outfitters (even some crap ones) to be booked for at least a year out if not two or more. That said, they usually have a list for cancellations that you can get on. They are also not the only good outfitter for the area you want to hunt, so look around. The best outfits that I have found are usually ones you rarely if ever hear the name of. They have a lot of repeat clients, and have little need for publicity to keep their camps full.

1) I use two methods to find a good outfitter. Use a reputable booking agent that has done the leg work already. Or get the outfitters reference list, make a lot of phone calls, and ask about them on forums like this one. This also applies to booking agents, check them out before you use them. PM me if you want the names I use. Over the years, I've also become friends with a few guides, and call them to vet an outfitter. The industry isn't big and a lot of good guides hunt multiples states for several outfits a year. They usually know what's what.

2) I put in for NM every year. No points system, and good to great hunting. NM really does a good job with herd management IMO. Idaho would be another to apply in every year for their LE tags. Same reason except not as well managed, again my opinion. Think about hunting an easy to get tag in CO, ID, MT or WY (second choice) to get your feet wet. Outfitted or DIY. You have to get out there sometime. The general or OTC outfitted hunts are still good hunts with the right people. And lower cost. AZ is a good one to get some points in. It is unlikely you'll hunt a primo unit for archery or early rifle, but late season options are plentiful and the lower tier units are still good hunts. Tailor your expectations to the draw odds. AZ is known for slob bulls, but a nice 5X5 out of a lesser unit will still put a smile on your face.

3) Landowner tags could be an option. Cow hunts are also an option and really good when kids are involved. Antelope in WY, MT, ID, and CO are fun hunts. Probably one of the most fun. By far the easiest to do DIY and be successful.

Some food for thought.

Jeremy

 

[JLeMieux]

Unless there is a specific reason you are waiting, you could start this year. Several states have tags you can buy over-the-counter. I have never hunted with an outfitter, but I do know it is not uncommon for your better outfits to be booked a few years out. If I have done my due diligence on an outfitter through research and choose one, I would have no problem giving them a deposit. In your case, it sounds like one of your research questions should be, "what if I do not draw a tag that year?" Additionally, outfitters probably have a pretty realistic idea on how many points you will need to likely or guarantee a tag in the unit(s) they hunt. One thing I can recommend is get a hunt under your belt before your trip with the outfitter. This way you know exactly where you are physically and whether or not you need to ratchet the fitness up prior to a hunt you are dropping several grand on.

Jeremy

 

[cnelk]

Sent you a PM with some info - you may want to get a few more posts so you can use the PM system

 

[idahohikker]

Hey guys, I am a long time hunter currently living in Virginia. I recently got the western bug and for about the last month I have been researching points and applications in Colorado, Wyoming, New Mexico, Oregon, etc.

My goal is to start doing some cool western hunts over the next 12 years (I'm currently 38). So based on my preliminary research, I've decided I'm going to start buying preference points for Elk, Mule Deer, and Antelope in Wyoming, and for Elk and Mule Deer in Colorado. I am also going to start buying Wyoming youth points for my son when he turns 11. I'm thinking I want to do my first western hunt in 2022 at the latest, and maybe go every other year after that.

So I contacted an outfitter based in western Wyoming regarding a potential elk hunt. I was thinking if I find out in May 2021 that I drew the tag, I could already have an outfitter lined up and book right away. Well, it turns out they are almost full for 2022. Is this normal?? I'm having a hard time swallowing the idea of putting over $1k on a deposit to hold a hunt that is about 2 and a half years away, when I don't even know that I will get a tag. This outfitter recently had some exposure on a popular show, so I am wondering if that is the reason.

Other questions:
1. What is the best way to find a good outfitter?
2. If you were starting right now, what out-of-state tags would you start buying? Obviously there are tags I can essentially never draw now because of point creep.
3. What other recommendations do you have?

Keep calling outfitters. The real popular ones book a few years out but there are some others you can find that are good and not so busy.

I'd also mix in some OTC hunts as recommended above.

 

[Beendare]

This will be a good year to get a discounted cancellation hunt.....

 

[Stonewall308]

Thanks for all the input everyone!

 

[Indian Summer]

Crooked Sky isn’t the only good outfitter in the area. Just pick another one. Are you totally against considering a DIY hunt?

 

[stonewall]

I agree on trying to get a hunt in before going with the outfitter. That extra experience would likely be a help to you

Nice name choice. From Virginia...name have anything to do with a certain historical figure from Lexington?

 

[Blackstorm]

We did research on the areas we wanted to hunt and found the outfitters who had success in those areas, they were all booked up so we asked a few of these outfitters if there was any outfitter in the area they would use. More than one recommended one outfitter, we booked this outfitter as they had dates later in the season and only accept limited hunters for the season. Once we found this outfitter they had better success rates than the outfitters that referred them, they had the family atmosphere we were looking for. As others have said they are mostly referral hunts with outfitters and the hunters generally repeat year after year.

 

[Real_fatlander]

If you’ve only got one point in wyoming, which it sounds like you’ll be buying your first point this fall. I wouldn’t count on drawing a general elk tag in 2021 or 2022. It’ll probably be 2023 or maybe even 2024 until you can for sure draw.

There are a couple states you can buy OTC elk tags in. I would suggest ponying up the cash for go hunt before you start dropping all this money on points.

Figure out where you can realistically draw tags soon. Point creep is a very big problem so take note of that. Good luck. I’m in VA as well. As you get going, pm me and I’ll try to help you out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Flyfishmtns]

Stonewall...if you haven't listen to the Podcasts on Elk101 by Cory Jacobsen with Randy Newberg...good rundown of each Elk state that talks strategies on tags (% of Resident, Non-resident, & outfitter), draw dates, over-the-counter options if available, etc. Will give you an idea on the methods each states uses to manage Elk herds / provide tags.
For me, I founds it useful, interesting, & to know I will probably never put in for a Montana or Idaho Elk hunt.

Gives me advice when or if I engage with my own state (New Mexico) as a resident on future changes.

I know this doesn't help with selecting an outfitter.

PM, me if you want to talk New Mexico...currently living in Alexandria, VA in the Military.

Figures crossed for my draw in New Mexico this fall.

Good luck!

 

[Hunt41]

For me, I founds it useful, interesting, & to know I will probably never put in for a Montana or Idaho Elk hunt.

Funny!!! These are the two states they are from. They sure did a good job making their home states seem undesirable. Hmmmmm.......

 

[Flyfishmtns]

I agree...Cory didn't (at first) like NM and sounds like Randy does many types of hunts in NM....I am an avid fly fish addict and will visit both to hunt for trout. One of the reason Cory mentions in his NM podcasts is time / distance...same holds true for me with Idaho...to dang far.

Don't get me wrong - I would love to hunt Elk, sheep, etc. in both of those states!!

Your state is not bad either...I was in Carlisle, PA for a year not to long ago and fished all over Central / Southern PA!

Have you hunted PA Elk?

 

[Hunt41]

Never hunted elk in PA. It is a lottery hunt. I have never been drawn. 10,000+ applications for 100 tags.
I go over during the rut to watch and listen occasionally. There are some giant bulls 400+

 

[Flyfishmtns]

Agree...saw pictures from a couple of the top PA bulls that were taken last year - monsters! The odds are like the NM Bighorn sheep draws! Truly once in a life time.

 

[Stonewall308]

Crooked Sky isn’t the only good outfitter in the area. Just pick another one. Are you totally against considering a DIY hunt?

Man you are on point!

Thats part of why I am posting, to get a lead on picking another one.

I am not totally against DIY. I may buy an over the counter tag in CO for a DIY hunt. Just trying to ask some questions here and learn as much as possible.

 

[Stonewall308]

I agree on trying to get a hunt in before going with the outfitter. That extra experience would likely be a help to you

Nice name choice. From Virginia...name have anything to do with a certain historical figure from Lexington?

You got it.

I'm from South Carolina originally though. Reading a book on the civil war right now.

 

[stonewall]

Nice. I’ve read a couple biographies on him. He’s maybe my favorite General. And I dare say things would have gone differently in Pennsylvania had we not lost him at Chancellorsville.

for our viewing pleasure, one of my favorite clips from Gods and Generals:

“Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees.”

 

[Puttncut]

Beware Stonewall...once you encounter that first screaming bull, NOTHING in your Virginia woods will come CLOSE in your adrenaline rush...think a big Blue Ridge spring gobbler x 1000! After six DIY hunts in SW Colorado I'm seriously considering a LO tag in New Mexico - still DIY. Guided hunts have never been cheap - at least for MY budget - but today it's just plain CRAZY...even the $15k hunts sell out years in advance. Nothing teaches like boots on the ground...and the western mountains are simply breathtaking...figuratively and literally. It's THAT pretty. Add a snot-spewing fired-up bull and you're just hooked for life !! GOOD LUCK !! (I'm near Harrisonburg)