New to Recurves - Questions

[Brendan]

Well, can't believe I did it (last thing I need is another hobby) - but I jumped on a good deal on a Hoyt Satori 17" riser, so looks like I need to start piecing together gear and arrows to start shooting in the offseason. With black friday deals coming up, and end of season gear swaps, I'm trying to do some shopping now... Never shot traditional archery, save for screwing around as a kid.

I'm a very experienced compound archer and tuner, but did have a couple questions about starting out for someone in my position.

How much variance do you see in draw length from Compound to Traditional (ILF Recurve specifically)? I'm 29-29.25" draw with my compounds, in what I'd call a fully extended / "T" type form. Trying to ballpark which limbs I go with.

I have shot 80+ pounds on the compound side, but have settled on shooting 70-73# for all my bows. I'm thinking of picking up a cheap set of lower poundage ILF limbs to start, but what should I be targeting for draw weight for hunting? Is 55# a good target? 40-45# for a cheaper practice set?

Starting completely from scratch - any advice on shooting style? 3 Under? Split Finger?

Okay - maybe I stop there for now. Looking forward to it!

 

[Wrench]

To shoot 55# trad bows you need to be in the top 20% of men in terms of strength and muscle control. Pull your compound to just before letoff and hold it there for 5 seconds....now imagine that while trying to anchor and run a process.

I personally don't think there's a north American animal that cannot be taken with 50# average speed trad bows.

Anchor location will help settle the hook style. I can shoot both, but prefer 3 under.

I'd just start flinging some arrows and then start working on form......then and only then would I start tuning.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

I started in early 2017 with the recurve thing from compound, with a Samick Sage, currently with satori riser.

I like 40lb for “form” practice limbs or early in the year, so I think you’re on the right track there.

Have hunted elk with 48-52 lb, although going to 55 this year. I like that 50-55 range for how i shoot, which is holding and expanding through release, which takes me around 3s normally. I e shot bows in mid 60’s and honestly it was a pain, not sure I’d be looking at 70 lb recurves if I were you. Especially in wind, holding it back for a bit seems to help me with accuracy.

I’m pretty close on draw length, perhaps a touch longer with the recurve.

As far as holding - I would go 3 under. You could be different, but I find a lot of comfort using the arrow tip for reference just because of shooting a compound so long. Especially if longer than 30-35 yards. Shooting 3 under helps
get your eye down the shaft. Practicing at 40 and over really illustrates why for me an aiming system is nice.

If you haven’t already YouTube “the push” and they go over a lot of this stuff, good watch for sure. That video is like a jump start into trad archery and options and they encourage a very specific path forward to help you enjoy it, and you can branch out from there. It’s totally frustrating at times, yet very very enjoyable.

Good luck!

 

[Wrench]

One of the most overlooked things with trad bows is sitting there freezing your ass off and needing to draw on a ripper buck and run a shot when you are dead cold.

I shot a Martin ml10 @70# for years and after stepping down.....I'll never look back.

 

[JD619er]

Many people make the mistake of over bowing themselves to start, end up struggling a lot and giving up on trad bows. I was given this advice a few years ago when I started...set any pride aside, get some 40lb limbs and learn to love the process.

 

[Brendan]

Thanks everyone. Sounds like I'm leaning towards a 40 ish pound for practice and learning what I'm doing, maybe 50-55 for hunting next year (If I decide to hunt with it). I know all about having to draw when you're cold, awkward positions, etc. I can draw my 73# compound slow and controlled from an awkward angle, and can also let down controlled if that helps.

Anyone have a good high level "Calculator" they like to ballpark poundage at my anticipated draw length, based on limb length, riser, poundage, etc?

 

[Superkodiak38]

Your draw length should not change based on limbs and riser, your string angle will though. You will probably draw about 28" it won't be the same as a compound, with a 17 inch riser I would recommend a set of 40-45 pound longs, that should give you a 62" bow. ILF risers you can crank down and add a couple of pounds too or take a couple off. Brace height is something you have to find the sweet spot ( quiet) on by twisting and untwisting your string, Flemish twist, the longer the bow the more forgiving and the smoother the draw generally speaking.
500 spine arrow and 125 grain heads to start, leave it full length, you should be in the ball park, add point weight to weaken and cut it shorter, from the nock end bare shaft, to stiffen it. Shoot it bare shaft to make sure you are getting good flight then duplicate and fletch them up. Shoot matched arrows.

Limbs are marked at a draw weight calculated based on a 28" draw so 45 longs should be right about 45 if you pull 28, depending on riser geometry and limb stack you might pick up 2-3 lbs per inch over 28 and.

 

[GregB]

Thanks everyone. Sounds like I'm leaning towards a 40 ish pound for practice and learning what I'm doing, maybe 50-55 for hunting next year (If I decide to hunt with it). I know all about having to draw when you're cold, awkward positions, etc. I can draw my 73# compound slow and controlled from an awkward angle, and can also let down controlled if that helps.

Anyone have a good high level "Calculator" they like to ballpark poundage at my anticipated draw length, based on limb length, riser, poundage, etc?

There is a calculator on 3 Rivers that will get you close. Honestly you need to have everything, draw length, form, anchor, etc. consistent before you can really get your arrows tuned well.

 

[Tartan]

Just a note to watch out for when ordering limbs. Manufacturers use different standards to measure the weight they mark them at. Weight might be measured from bolts all the way in or at mid settings. Also, might be measured on a 25", 19", or 17" riser.

Going to a shorter riser from what it was measured at will increase weight, and vice versa. General rule of thumb for standard limb shapes is 1lb per inch difference in riser length.

Draw length will likely remain similar to where you are at with a compound, if you are using good form with both.

 

[bjfoxhoven]

Not sure if someone mentioned this or not, but draw length may vary a little from your compound draw. I especially if you go too heavy. I felt 40 was a solid place to start, as mentioned above. Get good flight, light limbs show form and release flaws more drastic than heavier limbs too. And you can hold and focus on the form easier, which is essential for accuracy and consistency.

 

[Matt21418]

From a draw length perspective there are a lot of things that determine this, so take my story with a grain of salt. I shoot a 29.5” compound draw length, I am 5’11” with a 73” wing span. I shoot a 31-31.5” trad draw length. I personally follow instruction put out by Tom Clum at RMS Gear which is based on the NTS system (what the Olympian shooters use) but adapted for Joe bowhunter. For my draw length I can shoot 62” bows but find 64” bows more comfortable. When looking at weights you will typically need to add 2-3 #’s per inch if additional draw length over 28”. So a set of limbs rated at 40#, I would actually be drawing 46-49# on. The other thing to remember is that the ilf system does allow some adjustability in draw weights with the tension adjustment on the limbs. I would typically say you have 4-6# of adjustment on either side of the stamped rating so a 40 # limb could go from 36-44# with limb adjustments. I would also recommend shooting 3 under and picking an aiming system, it is the quickest way to become accurate quickly. Over time you will learn the flight of the arrow and your eyes will see the gaps to be more of an instinctive aimer when needed but developing an aiming system will speed up the learning curve significantly. For the different aiming systems check out that Push Archery video mentioned above they touch on them there. I would also highly recommend getting a coach or picking up some type of shooting method vs learning on your own...if is a long slow road with my potential mistakes and they having to unlearn those mistakes. I highly recommend the Solid Archery mechanics course the Tom Clum put together, is is offered through The Push as well, it’s over 5 hours of video instruction that breaks down the various parts of the shot. There are other options out there, but from using these videos as well as one in one coaching with Tom this has been very helpful to me.

-Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[arwhntr]

Following. Good on you for making the leap. I haven't yet but have similar questions.

 

[Macleod]

I spent too much time worrying about tuning arrows because I love gear and there are very few parts to a trad setup to obsess over. I should have just spent money on lessons early. Also I moved up in weight too fast, from 35 to 45, without perfecting my form, and my elbow is still screwed up. Not saying any of this will happen to you, just sharing my mistakes. I do recommend getting tough practice arrows. Fwiw I cannot seem to break a Black Eagle Vintage. I have broken tons of Black Eagle Rampages and Easton Axis Trads.

 

[SliverShooter]

My advise after shooting traditional for 30 years:
If you have good form with your compound, don’t leave it behind. It is probably better then that of most traditional shooters.

As previously mentioned, enjoy the process.

Get a good coach, not a friend, or friend of a friend who shoots traditional. You do not want to learn their bad habits and form. Learn it right at the start and the road is ten times easier. This can be said of most any sport...golf, Tennis,

 

[Beendare]

Ilf longs on a 17” riser=62” bow, you need longs.

At my 30” DL, im more accurate with a 64” recurve, 19”, ILF longs.

most ILF limbs rated on a 25” riser, these will be appx 6-8# heavier on a 17” riser. Some outfits like Das and Trad tech rate their limbs on short risers.

start with cheap 30-35# limb at your DL ($50/$60 on Alt services) heavy hinders the learning process.

Stickbows can be as simple as draw and shoot- fun stuff. If you want to be consistently accurate at yardages past 20 yds, you will soon see how much more technical shooting a stick is.

A form flaw with a compound puts you inches out, the same flaw with a stick is feet out.

A lot depends on you goals. Personally, I shoot some tourneys, 3d and hunt. I want to be accurate out to 40 plus....

i tried multiple shooting styles/bows/ setups.
I have settled on 3under with a tab, and aim with a gap them focus on the spot. Some call it split vision, some gap-stinctive. The gap gives ne a reference point I need to be consistent.

i hunted with a 55-60# bow but with quality limbs i shoot a 585gr arrow as fast at 50#. High Poundage is a vanity thing. The guys ive seen shooting heavy bows have terrible form, most

I sometimes shoot a fixed crawl for dedicated slot distances like vegas style 20 yd or sometimes treestand hunting. The FC utilzes looking down the arrow like a shotgun.
——-

 

[Brendan]

Thanks everyone. Not sure if I have any decent coaches in my area, honestly I'm usually skeptical. I do a lot of self filming with a tripod with my compound.

I know a couple people have mentioned it, but RMS / Tom Clum's Solid Archery Mechanics: Worth it if there's a good chance I can't find a coach local?

 

[bjfoxhoven]

I really like a lot of what Tom has to say. If you search enough podcasts and YouTube, you can find a lot of good content out there he has for free. Use it and see if it works for you. There are some threads on here discussing his course and the benefits of it. I really like how he teaches to draw the string with a flexed wrist, it forces you to use more back tension.
Beendare has a lot of good info. Form is key. I really dove in the trad stuff deep the past couple years. I highly recommend finding your gaps now and shooting with they in mind for a while... it will make you a lot more accurste early one (again just my opinion). After doing that for a while, I can now shoot instinctive probably better at closer ranges than I can being more aware of the tip of the arrow.

Another thing worth mentioning is building confidence before moving into 3D targets. Pretty sure when I started learning this, for the first two years I only shot big bags. If I went to the 3D range, I had 0 confidence and everything went to hell. Once I gained my confidence, then I took it hunting and to smaller 3D targets.

I have a large target in my garage and shoot a handful of arrows almost every evening before bed or before work. Shooting ten yards doesn’t seem like much, but you can focus on for, steady hand at the shot, gap at that range, and helps build the right muscles up too.

 

[TaterTot]

Ilf longs on a 17” riser=62” bow, you need longs.

At my 30” DL, im more accurate with a 64” recurve, 19”, ILF longs.

most ILF limbs rated on a 25” riser, these will be appx 6-8# heavier on a 17” riser. Some outfits like Das and Trad tech rate their limbs on short risers.

start with cheap 30-35# limb at your DL ($50/$60 on Alt services) heavy hinders the learning process.

Stickbows can be as simple as draw and shoot- fun stuff. If you want to be consistently accurate at yardages past 20 yds, you will soon see how much more technical shooting a stick is.

A form flaw with a compound puts you inches out, the same flaw with a stick is feet out.

A lot depends on you goals. Personally, I shoot some tourneys, 3d and hunt. I want to be accurate out to 40 plus....

i tried multiple shooting styles/bows/ setups.
I have settled on 3under with a tab, and aim with a gap them focus on the spot. Some call it split vision, some gap-stinctive. The gap gives ne a reference point I need to be consistent.

i hunted with a 55-60# bow but with quality limbs i shoot a 585gr arrow as fast at 50#. High Poundage is a vanity thing. The guys ive seen shooting heavy bows have terrible form, most

I sometimes shoot a fixed crawl for dedicated slot distances like vegas style 20 yd or sometimes treestand hunting. The FC utilzes looking down the arrow like a shotgun.
——-

Gapstictive Hahaha I'm going to steal that. Thats how I shoot.

 

[SirChooCH]

Aron Snyder just did a build on Kifarucast YT that might help you out as well.

 

[Beendare]

Brendan,
“Trad” has so many niches....it might be worth exploring these before you pick a style.

i know instinctive aim guys using very primitve gear, and they are successful on whjtetails and hunts where they can setup for a sub 20yd-ish shot. These guys shoot pie plate 15 yd groups... but kill game and have fun without overthinking it. Consistent accuracy is tough, I regularly hear their arrows rattling thriugh the woods on our club 3D archery range.

On the orher end of the spectrum is shooters that use the best ILF gear available and strive for technical perfection. Ive shot with some of these guys and their form is perfect, their repeatable is accuracy amazing.

I like to hit what I’m aiming at....so I’m somewhere in between- grin