New TMK announced

[benconfused]

Any guesstimations on BC for the 107 TMKs?

 

[Gstew1930]

Any guesstimations on BC for the 107 TMKs?

i would imagine just a little better than the 107 SMK

 

[Moccasin]

I’m impressed .25 cal got some love. Berger, ELDM, ELDX, and now TMK. Looking forward to trying in 25CM.

 

[camp_86]

Really hoping the 153 6.5mm bullet has a BC above .640. Would be awesome for my new 6.5 PRC I will be setting up over the next yr.

 

[Ajsomp]

Besides the 77tmk, Does anyone besides boutique outlets and Fed LEO load TMK in factory form?

Federal has a 110 tipped fusion coming, not sure they’d load the 107 with a sierra bullet but options would be nice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Black hills was loading it for a bit. You can still get 308 readily, haven’t looked for any other cartridges.

Half the reason I’d even shoot a 308 is the availability of factory TMK loaded ammo. That being said, I know Sierra is taking a new approach so maybe we can get some Barnes loaded ammo with TMKs

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, just to clarify...are you saying the variable behavior of some ELD-Ms include impacts above 2,000 fps or primarily below 2,000 fps?

It gets worse below 2,200’ish, but happens above it as well at times.


You can see why here:







The ELD-M have long slender/pointy ogive (some more than others), a tiny nose opening compared to TMK’s and smaller than ELD-X’s, and the jacket is thicker at the front portion of the bullet. Lead surrounds the shaft of the tip nearly all the way to the top, and the tip itself in the ELD-M (and X) is brittle and tends to break off right at the nose as below (168gr ELD-M left, AMAX, 178gr ELD-X right).





All of that put together, if one understands how bullets upset, it shouldn’t be hard to see how you can get a weird one that the tip breaks off, the nose pinches over just a bit- and you are left with what is functionally an FMJ. This also tracks with impact velocity as the issue seems to show the most below 2,200’ish.

Again- this isn’t to say that ELD-M’s are “bad”. All bullets have variability- lots/most hunting bullets do the same thing at a higher rate- hence the reason that I generally don’t use “hunting” bullets. Just that the ELD-M’s show a behavior that AMAX’s did not, and overall are usually not nearly as destructive as AMAX were. There is a price to pay for super aggressive ogives and the highest BC and harder tips that don’t melt. This is why Ryan and I were adamant that the heavy 6mm specifically, but all the new TMK’s don’t chase the absolute edge of possible BC- just make them decent and keep the construction the same.

 

[woods89]

Even though it likely won't change anything as far as my use, I'm enthused about this. I do think from my limited use that the real winners are the 22 & 6mm versions. If terminal performance is unchanged, the 153 will make a 6.5 PRC into a monster, but I wonder if that will be getting to the edge of what's acceptable damage wise. If it was high 140s weight wise I'd probably want to load them in my 6.5 CM, but having shot 156 Bergers for a couple years, high 140s is about as heavy as I want to go in that rifle. I don't want to have anything to do with the catastrophy (meat damage wise) that will likely be the 7mm and 30 cal versions, at anything other than true long range.

It does make me want a 223 AI to shoot the 88s.

 

[Chris in TN]

I really want to try a moderately sized 6mm like maybe a 6CM or 6GT of maybe 18".

I'd also consider an 8-twist 243. So I wonder, since the 8-twist 243 would be cheaper/easier for me since there are factory options out there that I like, whether the 107 or 117(?) would stabilize well in an 8 twist. I guess time will tell. Either should be more than sufficient.

I am content with what little I've seen from 147 and 180eldms in bigger calibers. I'm not hitting stuff at the lower speeds being discussed as occasional failure points so I'm unlikely to change projectiles for 6.5mm or 7mm stuff.

I shot my first couple of deer with Sierra Gamekings decades ago and killed a lot of coyotes with .224/55 SGKs when I was a kid. But I have shot very few Sierra bullets in the last maybe 20 years. A few 77TMKs is about it. I'd love to change that.

 

[Helislacker]

It gets worse below 2,200’ish, but happens above it as well at times.


You can see why here:

View attachment 983270


View attachment 983271


The ELD-M have long slender/pointy ogive (some more than others), a tiny nose opening compared to TMK’s and smaller than ELD-X’s, and the jacket is thicker at the front portion of the bullet. Lead surrounds the shaft of the tip nearly all the way to the top, and the tip itself in the ELD-M (and X) is brittle and tends to break off right at the nose as below (168gr ELD-M left, AMAX, 178gr ELD-X right).

View attachment 983286



All of that put together, if one understands how bullets upset, it shouldn’t be hard to see how you can get a weird one that the tip breaks off, the nose pinches over just a bit- and you are left with what is functionally an FMJ. This also tracks with impact velocity as the issue seems to show the most below 2,200’ish.

Again- this isn’t to say that ELD-M’s are “bad”. All bullets have variability- lots/most hunting bullets do the same thing at a higher rate- hence the reason that I generally don’t use “hunting” bullets. Just that the ELD-M’s show a behavior that AMAX’s did not, and overall are usually not nearly as destructive as AMAX were. There is a price to pay for super aggressive ogives and the highest BC and harder tips that don’t melt. This is why Ryan and I were adamant that the heavy 6mm specifically, but all the new TMK’s don’t chase the absolute edge of possible BC- just make them decent and keep the construction the same.

given these factors - is the ELD-M still a >1800FPS bullet in your mind? Or have you revised your minimum velocity for it based on what you’ve seen as of late?

 

[Formidilosus]

given these factors - is the ELD-M still a >1800FPS bullet in your mind? Or have you revised your minimum velocity for it based on what you’ve seen as of late?

Yes- because it really isn’t so much that the bullets need more to upset, it’s that the design causes them to be more variable at medium to lower impact speeds. That’s true for most bullets. I just expect when I shoot, to shoot the animal multiple times regardless of caliber/cartridge/bullet. Lots of times I don’t, sometimes I do.
But also, because everything starts getting weirder at times at lower impact velocities, my general procedure is 1-2 in the chest that I know are solid chest hits, then the next goes in the neck to break it down. Bullets do weird things at times, and each animal is different- animals have their Medal of Honor earners too.

 

[ID_Matt]

It gets worse below 2,200’ish, but happens above it as well at times.


You can see why here:

View attachment 983270


View attachment 983271


The ELD-M have long slender/pointy ogive (some more than others), a tiny nose opening compared to TMK’s and smaller than ELD-X’s, and the jacket is thicker at the front portion of the bullet. Lead surrounds the shaft of the tip nearly all the way to the top, and the tip itself in the ELD-M (and X) is brittle and tends to break off right at the nose as below (168gr ELD-M left, AMAX, 178gr ELD-X right).

View attachment 983286



All of that put together, if one understands how bullets upset, it shouldn’t be hard to see how you can get a weird one that the tip breaks off, the nose pinches over just a bit- and you are left with what is functionally an FMJ. This also tracks with impact velocity as the issue seems to show the most below 2,200’ish.

Again- this isn’t to say that ELD-M’s are “bad”. All bullets have variability- lots/most hunting bullets do the same thing at a higher rate- hence the reason that I generally don’t use “hunting” bullets. Just that the ELD-M’s show a behavior that AMAX’s did not, and overall are usually not nearly as destructive as AMAX were. There is a price to pay for super aggressive ogives and the highest BC and harder tips that don’t melt. This is why Ryan and I were adamant that the heavy 6mm specifically, but all the new TMK’s don’t chase the absolute edge of possible BC- just make them decent and keep the construction the same.

Those cutout pictures definitely help explain your theory why higher BC's sometimes lead to more inconsistent wounds. The sleeker portion and tip above the ogive sure seems like it would be more prone to failed expansion than the more "chunky" TMK just by appearance.

 

[wind gypsy]

i would imagine just a little better than the 107 SMK

Possibly but I wouldn't bet on it. The 107s have a pointed meplat and a pretty solid form factor so adding a bigger plastic piece in there isn't always an upgrade in BC.

in 264 the pointed 130 grain SMK has a higher BC than the 130 TMK.

 

[nm.otter]

I have heard from bullet makers that achieving consistent wall thickness when drawing .224" cups is quite difficult.

 

[TxLite]

just make them decent and keep the construction the same.

And make more than 3,000 every 4 years so people can actually acquire them

 

[Helislacker]

Yes- because it really isn’t so much that the bullets need more to upset, it’s that the design causes them to be more variable at medium to lower impact speeds. That’s true for most bullets. I just expect when I shoot, to shoot the animal multiple times regardless of caliber/cartridge/bullet. Lots of times I don’t, sometimes I do.
But also, because everything starts getting weirder at times at lower impact velocities, my general procedure is 1-2 in the chest that I know are solid chest hits, then the next goes in the neck to break it down. Bullets do weird things at times, and each animal is different- animals have their Medal of Honor earners too.

Fair enough. This is the first year I had an elk run immediately upon impact, almost like someone whacked him in the ass with a board. Combined with a shitty ELDM performance, and the only thing that allowed me to recover that elk within a couple hundred yards was shot placement (referring to the bull with the narrow wound I sent you photos of specifically). I don’t have a ton of experience compared to many on here, but typically I shoot until they’re down and have always had the opportunity to put at least two in. It seems like the chances of two ELD’s performing that way back to back are near zero, though obviously that risk increases as you move closer to 1800FPS.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

As I have been gradually rearranging my rifle collection, the prospect of some of these new bullets is interesting to me. While they don’t necessarily open up completely new territory, they do provide more choices.

I sold my pretty Mauser 1:12 twist .22-250 and replaced it with a Tikka 1:8” twist .22-250. It’s not legal for deer in my state, but the prospect of longer, heavier bullets is enticing for long range work. The reports of 88-grain ELDMs being a bit inconsistent and hard to get accurate make me happy that there is a Sierra option.

Similarly, I am downgrading from the old Sako to the new Tikka. I was thinking of 95-grain BT or TMK, some 100-grain Partitions I got cheap, and 107-109s. Now, I can experiment with some of these heavier bullets. Not sure how they will work at .243 velocities, but the prospect of getting close to the same performance from a 117-grain .243 as I was getting from my factory .25-06 is intriguing.

Finally, those .257 133-135 grain bullets, along with the existing 134 and 138 grain ELDMs and Bergers, provide a prospect of getting better performance than my existing .270 130-grain factory loads from a .25-06.

 

[HighUintas]

Hopefully they re release their load manual app with these new bullets. It was supposed to happen this year but still haven't seen anything yet

 

[WhoGarrDen]

I really want to try a moderately sized 6mm like maybe a 6CM or 6GT of maybe 18".

This is where I was leaning initially, and then some voice in my head said cut another 2" off and run 16". Unfortunately, that doesn't quite make 1,800fps at 600 (1,758fps @ 5k DA, 35F) and I don't want to "step on it" in the name of barrel life and accuracy.

So I sold myself on a 16" 25 creed that could push 134 eld-M's out to 600. However...now that there's a 107 TMK option coming out, I feel better letting that get to 1,750fps if I absolutely had to*.

Or...I could just run an 18" barrel. Analysis paralysis is driving me nuts, but it costs less than buying a 16" 25 creed and an 18" 6 creed/GT.

 

[Chris in TN]

This is where I was leaning initially, and then some voice in my head said cut another 2" off and run 16". Unfortunately, that doesn't quite make 1,800fps at 600 (1,758fps @ 5k DA, 35F) and I don't want to "step on it" in the name of barrel life and accuracy.

So I sold myself on a 16" 25 creed that could push 134 eld-M's out to 600. However...now that there's a 107 TMK option coming out, I feel better letting that get to 1,750fps if I absolutely had to*.

Or...I could just run an 18" barrel. Analysis paralysis is driving me nuts, but it costs less than buying a 16" 25 creed and an 18" 6 creed/GT.

I bought my kid a 20" tikka this summer. The stock is a hair short - youth length - but it has the longer-than-needed Tikka action, then a 20" barrel, and a can that's maybe 5.25". This rifle isn't 'short' in a treestand, certainly isn't 'short' when slung and walking through the woods, but it isn't terrible, either.

So I figure that if I built an 18" short action (like R700 or similar, and a Remington model 7 is within the realm of possibility) and put a reflex can on it that's only 4" out front, that would make it *maybe* 3" shorter than the Tikka I'm using as a reference.

That's *short enough* for me. My goal is to stay at 2000' or faster out to 500 yards for eastern hunting and perhaps 650-700 yards for western hunting (higher elevations). That is further than I'll ever shoot at game or desire to see my kids shoot at game.