New Rain Gear Thread

[WVELK]

Okay, I have searched some for older posts. Here is where I am and need recommendations. I currently have a set of Kuiu Yukon rain gear tops and bottoms. They are good a bomb proof water proof. I am going on a sheep, moose and goat hunt this year. Three separate hunts. The pants are fine for standing up to whatever the brush presents.

But, if you read my thread about the alaskan brown bear hunt in May of 24, whenever I wore the Jacket I darn near froze to death. No idea why but have had others say similar things. Would be great for hunting mild whitetail weather, but for me I have to try something else.

So for those of you who backpack hunt north of the US where the weather can change rapidly, rain can fall at anytime, temps vary greatly, what rain gear are you packing? Ideally I am going to get something that can go over a base, midlayer and a puffy if it is cold. Help please.

 

[Jake Larsen]

What layers were you using when you “froze to death” while wearing that jacket? Conditions? It’s important to the discussion - you may not have had a rain jacket failure, could easily have been a failure of your other layers.


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[WVELK]

What layers were you using when you “froze to death” while wearing that jacket? Conditions? It’s important to the discussion - you may not have had a rain jacket failure, could easily have been a failure of your other layers.


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Fair question. I had multiple combinations of the following: KUIU Merino 145 Zip T as first layer, Kuiu Merino 200 next layer, Peloton 200 Zip T, next layer, Kuiu Axis Thermal Hybrid Vest, Kuiu Kenia Jacket then the Yukon Jacket. With the Jacket raining or not it seemed to keep the cold in. If I were my Kuiu Axis Hybrid Hooded jacket in place of the rain gear even if it was colder and greater wind, i was fine.

This was 99 percent a static hunt. I walked maybe 20 yards from my tent or the cook tent and glassed all the time with the exception of the three times we went after a bear.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Fair question. I had multiple combinations of the following: KUIU Merino 145 Zip T as first layer, Kuiu Merino 200 next layer, Peloton 200 Zip T, next layer, Kuiu Axis Thermal Hybrid Vest, Kuiu Kenia Jacket then the Yukon Jacket. With the Jacket raining or not it seemed to keep the cold in. If I were my Kuiu Axis Hybrid Hooded jacket in place of the rain gear even if it was colder and greater wind, i was fine.

This was 99 percent a static hunt. I walked maybe 20 yards from my tent or the cook tent and glassed all the time with the exception of the three times we went after a bear.

For cold conditions, the layers you described are somewhat minimal for a static situation…If you had any sweat or moisture build-up in your layering system, The Axis is going to move moisture from the inside - out a whole lot faster than the Yukon will. ESPECIALLY if you’ve got wet face fabric on the rain gear. Once that surface is holding moisture and has moved past the DWR, if you’re not putting out some significant heat from the inside, it can get clammy pretty quickly. Moisture management is a huge part of these systems working the way they should.

In this case, i wonder if you just needed a little more oomph in your under layers. A synthetic puffy type jacket or similar instead of the Peleton might have made the difference.

FWIW, I had some Kuiu Chugwch rain gear years ago. I wast super impressed with it compared to some others I’ve used. I’m currently using Sitka Dewpoint for my UL stuff, and Arcteryx Beta AR or SV for the bomb proof situations.


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[Maverick1]

Fair question. I had multiple combinations of the following: KUIU Merino 145 Zip T as first layer, Kuiu Merino 200 next layer, Peloton 200 Zip T, next layer, Kuiu Axis Thermal Hybrid Vest, Kuiu Kenia Jacket then the Yukon Jacket. With the Jacket raining or not it seemed to keep the cold in. If I were my Kuiu Axis Hybrid Hooded jacket in place of the rain gear even if it was colder and greater wind, i was fine.

This was 99 percent a static hunt. I walked maybe 20 yards from my tent or the cook tent and glassed all the time with the exception of the three times we went after a bear.

I needed to look to even see what these are. (Not bashing Kuiu as I own several of their items, just not familiar with these pieces.) My decoder ring says the following in red text:

• KUIU Merino 145 Zip T: light merino wool base layer
• Peloton 200 Zip T: light fleece
• Kuiu Axis Thermal Hybrid Vest: polyester vest, light insulation
• Kuiu Kenia Jacket: polyester jacket, light insulation
• Yukon jacket: a waterproof shell

OK, now that I have that all figured out, it is clear: you do not have an insulating layer in this collection of clothes. You need to research and learn about CLO values. Don't focus so much on the name or brand, learn about the function each layer provides, or should provide. Especially if you are completely static, with minimal movement. Merino is not a good insulator, very poor CLO value. Fleece is not a very good insulator, very low CLO value. The Kenai jacket - I own one - and I'd say from experience that it's CLO value is lower than other offerings on the market.

Dress for the wind chill.

• Excellent base layer. (check)
• Insulating midlayer with a high CLO value (missing/absent/big gap here)
• Excellent outer layer (check)

Here is a link to a post I put here before about static insulation garments and CLO values. (Yes, you are not hunting from a treestand, but the links within the post could be helpful in learning about different garment materials.)

Below is a CLO chart for reference.

 

[WVELK]

For cold conditions, the layers you described are somewhat minimal for a static situation…If you had any sweat or moisture build-up in your layering system, The Axis is going to move moisture from the inside - out a whole lot faster than the Yukon will. ESPECIALLY if you’ve got wet face fabric on the rain gear. Once that surface is holding moisture and has moved past the DWR, if you’re not putting out some significant heat from the inside, it can get clammy pretty quickly. Moisture management is a huge part of these systems working the way they should.

In this case, i wonder if you just needed a little more oomph in your under layers. A synthetic puffy type jacket or similar instead of the Peleton might have made the difference.

FWIW, I had some Kuiu Chugwch rain gear years ago. I wast super impressed with it compared to some others I’ve used. I’m currently using Sitka Dewpoint for my UL stuff, and Arcteryx Beta AR or SV for the bomb proof situations.


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Thanks for the response. I do not disagree with anything you said, but if I give you more facts I think you will see you thought process is well placed but not likely the entire answer.

The days that I wore the rain gear were not as you probably envisioned. First, the days had on and off drizzle. A type that is infrequent and so light you can barely see it. We are talking the end of the peninsula in Alaska. It looks like it is raining and cloudy there when it is sunny lol.

The temps were 38 to 50 degrees through the day on the days I tried the rain gear. So cool but not supper cold in my mind for two layers of wool, the Peleton, a mid layer jacket, vest and rain jacket.

I agree with you 100 percent about the Axis Hybrid; however, there was zero chance of moisture or heat build up heat from exertion on the inside. Yes the inside would have been warmer from body heat than the outside so “maybe” there was some heat vapor that transformed into moisture with the Yukon. But, I just do not think so.

And, for the most part when I wore it I walked 20 yards to a folding chair and sat under a tarp. Yep, big game hunting in 2024 lol. So no chance of wetting out or sweating.

You are right no doubt down would help. I had a Kuiu Burner Jacket. I wore it when it was colder and oh was it colder at times. It was the bomb. My hunting partner had packed for warmer weather and was in far worse shape than I with my Yukon speed bump. Kuiu got him a burner jacket to Cold Bay in no more than 48 hours and then the outfitter air dropped it via super cub at camp. Hats off to all involved.

Back to my rain gear. On my trip a regular puffy had no place in that camp. It would have been soaked in an hour and useless for the next 20 days.

I do not know what the answer is and I am not saying you are wrong. I am just very cautious about using the Yukon on colder sheep and goat hunts this year. Looking at all options. To try to say I am not crazy, my guide who had been at that same brown bear camp for 20 seasons said darn near anyone who brings the breathable rain gear and sits in that chair says the same thing. So maybe not the brand or model but the fact that it was breathable.

 

[WVELK]

I needed to look to even see what these are. (Not bashing Kuiu as I own several of their items, just not familiar with these pieces.) My decoder ring says the following in red text:

• KUIU Merino 145 Zip T: light merino wool base layer
• Peloton 200 Zip T: light fleece
• Kuiu Axis Thermal Hybrid Vest: polyester vest, light insulation
• Kuiu Kenia Jacket: polyester jacket, light insulation
• Yukon jacket: a waterproof shell

OK, now that I have that all figured out, it is clear: you do not have an insulating layer in this collection of clothes. You need to research and learn about CLO values. Don't focus so much on the name or brand, learn about the function each layer provides, or should provide. Especially if you are completely static, with minimal movement. Merino is not a good insulator, very poor CLO value. Fleece is not a very good insulator, very low CLO value. The Kenai jacket - I own one - and I'd say from experience that it's CLO value is lower than other offerings on the market.

Dress for the wind chill.

• Excellent base layer. (check)
• Insulating midlayer with a high CLO value (missing/absent/big gap here)
• Excellent outer layer (check)

Here is a link to a post I put here before about static insulation garments and CLO values. (Yes, you are not hunting from a treestand, but the links within the post could be helpful in learning about different garment materials.)

Below is a CLO chart for reference.

View attachment 837592

Well not to take away from my response above which I drafted prior to reading this, but it seems reasonable to conclude you are on to something. Where did you get this chart?

What would your recommend for an insulation if your rule out down. As I noted above, I do not know how you would keep down dry up there even inside a tent. There was moisture in the air 24/7.

 

[WVELK]

I needed to look to even see what these are. (Not bashing Kuiu as I own several of their items, just not familiar with these pieces.) My decoder ring says the following in red text:

• KUIU Merino 145 Zip T: light merino wool base layer
• Peloton 200 Zip T: light fleece
• Kuiu Axis Thermal Hybrid Vest: polyester vest, light insulation
• Kuiu Kenia Jacket: polyester jacket, light insulation
• Yukon jacket: a waterproof shell

OK, now that I have that all figured out, it is clear: you do not have an insulating layer in this collection of clothes. You need to research and learn about CLO values. Don't focus so much on the name or brand, learn about the function each layer provides, or should provide. Especially if you are completely static, with minimal movement. Merino is not a good insulator, very poor CLO value. Fleece is not a very good insulator, very low CLO value. The Kenai jacket - I own one - and I'd say from experience that it's CLO value is lower than other offerings on the market.

Dress for the wind chill.

• Excellent base layer. (check)
• Insulating midlayer with a high CLO value (missing/absent/big gap here)
• Excellent outer layer (check)

Here is a link to a post I put here before about static insulation garments and CLO values. (Yes, you are not hunting from a treestand, but the links within the post could be helpful in learning about different garment materials.)

Below is a CLO chart for reference.

View attachment 837592

Replying again that is a very valuable chart. What is the difference between active and active two layer fabric? Anything other than there are two layers to the “insulation”. One have more specific use than the other? I see a rabbit hole in my future.

 

[IBen]

Post in thread 'Rain gear'
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/rain-gear.386993/post-3944242

 

[WVELK]

Thanks for the response. I do not disagree with anything you said, but if I give you more facts I think you will see you thought process is well placed but not likely the entire answer.

The days that I wore the rain gear were not as you probably envisioned. First, the days had on and off drizzle. A type that is infrequent and so light you can barely see it. We are talking the end of the peninsula in Alaska. It looks like it is raining and cloudy there when it is sunny lol.

The temps were 38 to 50 degrees through the day on the days I tried the rain gear. So cool but not supper cold in my mind for two layers of wool, the Peleton, a mid layer jacket, vest and rain jacket.

I agree with you 100 percent about the Axis Hybrid; however, there was zero chance of moisture or heat build up heat from exertion on the inside. Yes the inside would have been warmer from body heat than the outside so “maybe” there was some heat vapor that transformed into moisture with the Yukon. But, I just do not think so.

And, for the most part when I wore it I walked 20 yards to a folding chair and sat under a tarp. Yep, big game hunting in 2024 lol. So no chance of wetting out or sweating.

You are right no doubt down would help. I had a Kuiu Burner Jacket. I wore it when it was colder and oh was it colder at times. It was the bomb. My hunting partner had packed for warmer weather and was in far worse shape than I with my Yukon speed bump. Kuiu got him a burner jacket to Cold Bay in no more than 48 hours and then the outfitter air dropped it via super cub at camp. Hats off to all involved.

Back to my rain gear. On my trip a regular puffy had no place in that camp. It would have been soaked in an hour and useless for the next 20 days.

I do not know what the answer is and I am not saying you are wrong. I am just very cautious about using the Yukon on colder sheep and goat hunts this year. Looking at all options. To try to say I am not crazy, my guide who had been at that same brown bear camp for 20 seasons said darn near anyone who brings the breathable rain gear and sits in that chair says the same thing. So maybe not the brand or model but the fact that it was breathable.

Replying a third time. We have set a new Rockslide record. With two replies, we appear to have solved the riddle.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Thanks for the response. I do not disagree with anything you said, but if I give you more facts I think you will see you thought process is well placed but not likely the entire answer.

The days that I wore the rain gear were not as you probably envisioned. First, the days had on and off drizzle. A type that is infrequent and so light you can barely see it. We are talking the end of the peninsula in Alaska. It looks like it is raining and cloudy there when it is sunny lol.

The temps were 38 to 50 degrees through the day on the days I tried the rain gear. So cool but not supper cold in my mind for two layers of wool, the Peleton, a mid layer jacket, vest and rain jacket.

I agree with you 100 percent about the Axis Hybrid; however, there was zero chance of moisture or heat build up heat from exertion on the inside. Yes the inside would have been warmer from body heat than the outside so “maybe” there was some heat vapor that transformed into moisture with the Yukon. But, I just do not think so.

And, for the most part when I wore it I walked 20 yards to a folding chair and sat under a tarp. Yep, big game hunting in 2024 lol. So no chance of wetting out or sweating.

You are right no doubt down would help. I had a Kuiu Burner Jacket. I wore it when it was colder and oh was it colder at times. It was the bomb. My hunting partner had packed for warmer weather and was in far worse shape than I with my Yukon speed bump. Kuiu got him a burner jacket to Cold Bay in no more than 48 hours and then the outfitter air dropped it via super cub at camp. Hats off to all involved.

Back to my rain gear. On my trip a regular puffy had no place in that camp. It would have been soaked in an hour and useless for the next 20 days.

I do not know what the answer is and I am not saying you are wrong. I am just very cautious about using the Yukon on colder sheep and goat hunts this year. Looking at all options. To try to say I am not crazy, my guide who had been at that same brown bear camp for 20 seasons said darn near anyone who brings the breathable rain gear and sits in that chair says the same thing. So maybe not the brand or model but the fact that it was breathable.

Synthetic insulation is your answer. Down puffys have very little place in conditions as wet as you’re describing IMO. See the response above and CLO Values. There’s many synthetic insulation options on the market that utilize these different materials such as Climashield Apex or Primaloft gold that would have been perfect.

Think about it this way. There’s no situation in which any particular rain jacket is going to keep you warmer than another, UNLESS it’s wetting out. Based on the situation you’ve described, If you’re cold, you needed more insulation. Your rain jacket wasn’t really doing a whole lot for you, other than providing some wind protection.

In short, your rain jacket didn’t fail, you didn’t have adequate/condition appropriate insulation.


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[Quandary]

The Kuiu Yukon is a Goretex shell. Mine work fantastic Caribou and Grizzly hunting in Alaska last year. Keeps out wind and rain. I am not sure what you expect it to do. Properly layed its great. Every single Goretex or goretex equivalent shell will work exactly that same way. The Kuiu is a great well made jacket as are many others. In a complete deluge like any other of these products it will fail. The only thing that will work is rubber backed type product like the HH Impertech rain gear.