New mountain rifle considerations

[texansport]

Hi guys - considering building my first full custom/semi custom rifle. Looking for some reassurance.

Requirements:
-Finished weight under 6lb. Where I hunt is desert/canyonland and 20 miles in a weekend isn’t uncommon.
-Barrel length of 20-22” because I’ll be threading on a 6” Scythe-Ti.
-600 yard capability on aoudad, I would personally like something 6.5 PRC energy or greater. I also hunt whitetail and mule deer.

I currently carry a sako S20 in 6.5 PRC with a 24” barrel that weighs 9.75lbs (finished) and want to shed some weight. It’s a dream to shoot with virtually no recoil with an area 419 - 4 port.

I also have a Sako Finnlight 85 in 30-06 with a 20” barrel in 30-06 that I don’t enjoy shooting because of the recoil, it’s 5.75lbs bare and not threaded. 30-06 also isn’t as cool as some of the newer cartridges.

Looking at a couple options:
1) Thread the Sako Finnlight and run the 30-06 (highest recoil, cheapest option)
2) Rebarrel the Sako Finnlight in 280ai (lowers recoil, gain BC, gain barrel threads)
3) Go full custom or semi custom with a T3x super light platform in 6.5 PRC/280ai (lower recoil, custom gun fun factor, highest cost)

I think I’m splitting hairs here and writing this out makes me lean towards option 1 or 2. Am I losing too much velocity with a 20-22” barrel that a 280ai or 6.5 PRC isn’t worth it? I like to be over gunned, Is there a better cartridge for a <6lb rifle that still carries >1500 ft/lbs at 500 yards?

Thanks y’all!

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

1) Pull up your favorite ballistic calculator.

2) Pick your favorite projectile. Start with 6.5mm. Around here you'll find a strong preference for match bullets such as the ELD-M. Why? Because of the data.

3) Play with Muzzle Velocity in the calculator with the B.C. of that bullet and see what velocity you need to start at to hit 1800-2000 fps at 600 yards.

4) Once you see what you actually need for velocity, choose the cartridge that matches that.

5) Less recoil equals higher hit rates.

6) Ft./lbs is irrelevant.


Hint: A 6.5 CM with an 18" barrel shooting 140 ELD-M's surpasses your requirements.

 

[ThorM465]

I'm partial to 6.5mm and I'm toying with an 18" 6.5 SAUM lightweight custom build myself. That being said, your requirements scream 18" 6mm Creedmore.

 

[texansport]

I was expecting 6.5 creedmoor to be the number 1 recommendation but I’ve seen aoudad soak creedmoor ELD-x’s where my PRC has anchored them. It’s anecdotal at best but I’d personally like to be a little over gunned cartridge wise because I’m looking at a shorter barrel. I also like the idea of buying bulk PRC ammo because I don’t reload.

I’m not at all disputing that a 6’s, 6.5 creedmoor (and a mess of other smaller cartridges) can get the job done.

The only reason I mentioned the 280ai is that the 30-06 I don’t use will take a prefit and still be a step down in recoil.

 

[mlevimadden]

Have you ever shot a 6# gun at 600 yards? I'm not trying to be confrontational, or offend you. For me personally, accuracy really starts to fall off when guns are sub 8#, especially as recoil goes up.

Breynolds gave a great recommendation, and if you're looking for less recoil for that really light rifle, a 6 creed or 22 creed will meet your requirements as well.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

I’ve seen aoudad soak creedmoor ELD-x’s where my PRC has anchored them.

I think you are on the right thought process, however this statement is worth giving some critical thinking to.

You don’t have to post here, but just write down what ranges these were at and what the impact velocities were. The outcomes you describe could easily be within the variance in a small sample size.

Does the same 143 ELD-X, say at 2,400 and 2,600 fps, really have an observable difference in terminal results?

It would be worth browsing the 6.5mm thread to see a large sample size at a wide variety of impact velocities. https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/6-5-creedmoor-260-for-deer-elk-and-whatever-else.244973/

 

[Jake Larsen]

I'm partial to 6.5mm and I'm toying with an 18" 6.5 SAUM lightweight custom build myself. That being said, your requirements scream 18" 6mm Creedmore.

2nd on the 18” 6mm Creed. I’m going to rebarrel one of my customs to this exact thing. My specs and needs match OPs almost exactly. 7.75# scoped and suppressed, at least 1800 fps @ 700 yards.

To the OP, I highly recommend checking out the 6mm kills thread. A 108EH or ELDM or similar is going to be absolutely lethal for anything in N America.


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[amassi]

I’d buy that 6mm creedmoor field craft in the classifieds and cut it to 18”, thread and your under your target with a great rifle


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[Trr15]

Feels like a Kimber MA in .280 ai would be an off the shelf option that fits the bill

 

[texansport]

Have you ever shot a 6# gun at 600 yards? I'm not trying to be confrontational, or offend you. For me personally, accuracy really starts to fall off when guns are sub 8#, especially as recoil goes up.

Breynolds gave a great recommendation, and if you're looking for less recoil for that really light rifle, a 6 creed or 22 creed will meet your requirements as well.

Appreciate the comment - have a Finnlight 85 in 30-06 (5.75# bare) and 300WM (8.25# scoped and braked), my local range has steel out to 600. I’ve practiced with both out there, just don’t appreciate the recoil after a few rounds.

I’ve never shot an animal past 400yds but consistently practice at 600yds. I kind just threw out 600yds as a stretch range, 300-500yds shots are more likely but cross canyon shots can be much further.

To be honest I haven’t looked into the 6 creed very much, hasn’t been on my radar.

 

[texansport]

Feels like a Kimber MA in .280 ai would be an off the shelf option that fits the bill

I was looking really hard at this exact rifle actually!

 

[Jake Larsen]

Appreciate the comment - have a Finnlight 85 in 30-06 (5.75# bare) and 300WM (8.25# scoped and braked), my local range has steel out to 600. I’ve practiced with both out there, just don’t appreciate the recoil after a few rounds.

I’ve never shot an animal past 400yds but consistently practice at 600yds. I kind just threw out 600yds as a stretch range, 300-500yds shots are more likely but cross canyon shots can be much further.

To be honest I haven’t looked into the 6 creed very much, hasn’t been on my radar.

Do some reading on it, and throw some numbers into a ballistic calculator. It’s a sweet round. For me, it checks every box. Deer, elk, bears out to 700 yards. And supressed, it’s just so pleasant to shoot.


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[mlevimadden]

Appreciate the comment - have a Finnlight 85 in 30-06 (5.75# bare) and 300WM (8.25# scoped and braked), my local range has steel out to 600. I’ve practiced with both out there, just don’t appreciate the recoil after a few rounds.

I’ve never shot an animal past 400yds but consistently practice at 600yds. I kind just threw out 600yds as a stretch range, 300-500yds shots are more likely but cross canyon shots can be much further.

To be honest I haven’t looked into the 6 creed very much, hasn’t been on my radar.

I think I misunderstood your original post, and thought you were going for a 6# finished weight as in ready-to-hunt with scope and rings rather than a bare rifle weight of 6#. The latter of two is much more achievable and will be more forgiving to shoot. There are some weight-weenies on here that build some impressively light rifles, so I thought you were going for the first option.

I used to hunt with a tikka t3 superlite in 300WM that was 7.5# ready-to-hunt with no brake. That thing was miserable to shoot, and I think my highest round count was 25 in a day with a nice shoulder bruise to show for it. I have since rebarreled that action to a suppressed 6.5 PRC and it is a night-and-day difference. The reduced recoil has allowed me to shoot more, spot impacts, and greatly improved my accuracy (especially in field-shooting conditions).

When I rebarreled my tikka, my final 2 chambering choices were 6.5 PRC and 6 creed. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had gone 6 creed. My furthest shot to-date on an animal is 450 yds, and I could benefit from even more recoil reduction and a cheaper-to-shoot cartridge that is effective out to 700 yds with the right bullet choice as others have mentioned.

 

[hereinaz]

Look at 6.5 x 284 if you rebarrel the 06. Or, a 25-06 with fast twist for the 133 Berger or Hornady.

You don’t need the 280ai, but if you go that route a 20” barrel will work. You can get much more velocity with a smaller caliber.

 

[wind gypsy]

I think you are on the right thought process, however this statement is worth giving some critical thinking to.

You don’t have to post here, but just write down what ranges these were at and what the impact velocities were. The outcomes you describe could easily be within the variance in a small sample size.

Does the same 143 ELD-X, say at 2,400 and 2,600 fps, really have an observable difference in terminal results?

It would be worth browsing the 6.5mm thread to see a large sample size at a wide variety of impact velocities. https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/6-5-creedmoor-260-for-deer-elk-and-whatever-else.244973/

Beat me to it.

143 ELDx from a PRC @ 225 = same from a 6.5 creed at 100 yards.

 

[texansport]

I think you are on the right thought process, however this statement is worth giving some critical thinking to.

I was doing some more research on PRC vs Creedmoor. I’m realizing that my PRC was using a 24” barrel vs his 20” creedmoor and that may have been more of a factor than a little more powder.

To your point though, it could have been a number of things, totally agree my experience is a small sample size and not representative of much of anything. .

 

[IrkedCitizen]

Could always just rebarrel the 3006 to 6.5cm or 6cm.

Patriot Valley Arms is having their black Friday sale right now. $656 for a prefit with 5/8" muzzle threads. He doesn't have the Sako 85 action listed but there is an option for "customer supplied action". Send him your gun.

6mm Black Friday - Osprey Barrel Works Prefits

[email protected]

patriotvalleyarms.com

6.5mm Black Friday - Osprey Barrel Works Prefits

[email protected]

patriotvalleyarms.com

 

[texansport]

6.5 PRC vs 6.5 Creedmoor: What Hunters and Shooters Need to Know

Want to know the real differences between the 6.5 PRC vs the 6.5 Creedmoor? Here's an overview of these two popular cartridges.

www.outdoorlife.com

Just circled back to some the creedmoor vs PRC articles and I found this useful. I haven’t looked into it since I got my PRC. The PRC is ~350 fps faster with the same barrel length, but a 24” creedmoor is effectively the same gun as a 20” PRC.

I don’t think this is too far from real world, my 24” PRC is ~2875 with ELDX on the chrono.

 

[texansport]

Could always just rebarrel the 3006 to 6.5cm or 6cm.

Patriot Valley Arms is having their black Friday sale right now. $656 for a prefit with 5/8" muzzle threads. He doesn't have the Sako 85 action listed but there is an option for "customer supplied action". Send him your gun.

6mm Black Friday - Osprey Barrel Works Prefits

[email protected]

patriotvalleyarms.com

6.5mm Black Friday - Osprey Barrel Works Prefits

[email protected]

patriotvalleyarms.com

Thanks for this. The sako 85 takes a t3x prefit barrel but the action won’t fit in a t3x chassis.

 

[waspocrew]

Seekins Element is a fairly light and accurate rifle. 21" barrel, threaded, and ~ 5.5 lbs bare rifle. I bought one for an upcoming Dall hunt and I've been enjoying it so far.