New Mexico’s super lotto

[WRO]

So we’re at the point where we’re just reposting stuff?

Btw how’s the paid job as a hunt lease pimp influencer going for limitless outdoors?


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[Ten Bears]

you are literally copying and pasting a 4 year old podcast from a dude/organization that hunts on these landowner tags…it’s such high level crazy

 

[Gila]

you are literally copying and pasting a 4 year old podcast from a dude/organization that hunts on these landowner tags…it’s such high level crazy

Can’t count again huh? I reckon your reading comprehension ain’t so great either. Richard Stump was appointed chair of the New Mexico State Game Commission on January 16, 2025. The podcast was most likely posted after the April 2025 Game Commission meeting so how old is it?

You can ignore my posts you know. No one is forcing you to read this thread.

The primaries are in June and the gubernatorial election is this fall. SB5 took much of the power away from the Governor to appoint a game commission. I think there was a line item veto where the Governor retained the power to remove a commissioner. The dept has been “rebranded” to the Dept of Wildlife. The new State law also mandates the makeup of the Game Commission. This year brings significant change for wildlife management in New Mexico.

Ep. 283: Landowner Tags and EPLUS Access with Jesse Deubel of the New Mexico Wildlife Federation | MeatEater Podcasts

For this week's interview, Cal talks with Jesse Deubel about elk tag distribution and the EPLUS system in New Mexico, why draw odds are slim for non-residents and residents alike, "Take Back Your Elk," and the new game commissioner. Connect with Cal and MeatEater Cal on Instagram and Twitter...

www.themeateater.com

 

[Ten Bears]

Can’t count again huh? I reckon your reading comprehension ain’t so great either. Richard Stump was appointed chair of the New Mexico State Game Commission on January 16, 2025. The podcast was most likely posted after the April 2025 Game Commission meeting so how old is it?

You can ignore my posts you know. No one is forcing you to read this thread.

The primaries are in June and the gubernatorial election is this fall. SB5 took much of the power away from the Governor to appoint a game commission. I think there was a line item veto where the Governor retained the power to remove a commissioner. The dept has been “rebranded” to the Dept of Wildlife. The new State law also mandates the makeup of the Game Commission. This year brings significant change for wildlife management in New Mexico.

Ep. 283: Landowner Tags and EPLUS Access with Jesse Deubel of the New Mexico Wildlife Federation | MeatEater Podcasts

For this week's interview, Cal talks with Jesse Deubel about elk tag distribution and the EPLUS system in New Mexico, why draw odds are slim for non-residents and residents alike, "Take Back Your Elk," and the new game commissioner. Connect with Cal and MeatEater Cal on Instagram and Twitter...

www.themeateater.com

Oh sorry this podcast is only 2 years old. lol

You can also just post the podcast and move on.. instead of posting random transcripts from it. over and over

again, the irony of posting a podcast from folks that hunt on these landowner tags.

 

[svivian]

Can’t count again huh? I reckon your reading comprehension ain’t so great either. Richard Stump was appointed chair of the New Mexico State Game Commission on January 16, 2025. The podcast was most likely posted after the April 2025 Game Commission meeting so how old is it?

You can ignore my posts you know. No one is forcing you to read this thread.

The primaries are in June and the gubernatorial election is this fall. SB5 took much of the power away from the Governor to appoint a game commission. I think there was a line item veto where the Governor retained the power to remove a commissioner. The dept has been “rebranded” to the Dept of Wildlife. The new State law also mandates the makeup of the Game Commission. This year brings significant change for wildlife management in New Mexico.

Ep. 283: Landowner Tags and EPLUS Access with Jesse Deubel of the New Mexico Wildlife Federation | MeatEater Podcasts

For this week's interview, Cal talks with Jesse Deubel about elk tag distribution and the EPLUS system in New Mexico, why draw odds are slim for non-residents and residents alike, "Take Back Your Elk," and the new game commissioner. Connect with Cal and MeatEater Cal on Instagram and Twitter...

www.themeateater.com

Coming up on 2 years old.... Ironic to insult reading comprehension while simultaneously not reading the date it was published clear as day.

 

[WRO]

We’re continuing to lose public access to private ground for hunting across the west. Oregon just lost over 1/2 million acres, MT has shrinking participation in theirs, other states are having the same thing. I’m sure there’s a few units with too many eplus tags, but the overall benefit outweighs the costs.

NM is the poorest state in the nation, these pie in the sky proposals fail to address the huge loss in NMFG income and the financial hit to the economy. The numbers to offset these losses are huge.

Most LO’s don’t want the general public randomly roaming their land, even in a land pimp situation, gates get left open, trash gets spread, etc. If Gilas wet dream came into effect, there would be a dramatic reduction in elk numbers as most ranchers would whine until NMFG let them kill them all off. The only reason they tolerate broken fences and competition with their cattle is because they’re getting paid.

 

[Gila]

Coming up on 2 years old.... Ironic to insult reading comprehension while simultaneously not reading the date it was published clear as day.

View attachment 1018832

I’ll help you count. The podcast came out less than a year ago. Why shouldn’t they hunt unit wide tags? That’s about the only way for a non-resident to hunt elk in public lands here. You could put in for the DIY 6% which is only like 6% of 37percent of the total tags. Cal said that he had put in for the public draw like 17 times. The rabbit hole gets much deeper than I have described, but it will all come out in the wash as they say. The dissents here on this thread are some of the non-residents slopping from the trough…It’s all going to end though, sooner or later.

 

[svivian]

Any credibility you hoped for just went out the window when you cant even admit youre wrong on something as simple as when a podcast was released. Good luck trying to convince anyone, who may be inclined to your views on this, if thats your approach.

 

[Gila]

Coming up on 2 years old.... Ironic to insult reading comprehension while simultaneously not reading the date it was published clear as day.

View attachment 1018832

Once again Stump wasn’t appointed chair until Jan 2025. That date had to be the first one…listen to the link I posted which is the most recent one….sometime in 2025.

 

[WRO]

I’ll help you count. The podcast came out less than a year ago. Why shouldn’t they hunt unit wide tags? That’s about the only way for a non-resident to hunt elk in public lands here. You could put in for the DIY 6% which is only like 6% of 37percent of the total tags. Cal said that he had put in for the public draw like 17 times. The rabbit hole gets much deeper than I have described, but it will all come out in the wash as they say. The dissents here on this thread are some of the non-residents slopping from the trough…It’s all going to end though, sooner or later.

You’re wrong again, but you should be used to that by now.

We’re literally picking pepper out of the fly shit at this point.

 

[Reburn]

I’ll help you count. The podcast came out less than a year ago.

Bro.
Learn to admit when your wrong.
I mean I know its alot of admitting but step 1 is step 1

 

[NMELK1118]

Is e plus the best system- no
Is e plus system being exploited- yes

From an administrative stand point maybe the e plus system is the lower cost alternative which would add value in the back end of the program. If new mexico is investing those cost savings into other aspects of it's department it theoretically would benefit all sportsmen.

Many perspectives and some less visible than others for sure.

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Yes It's being exploited. I'm a new mexico landowner that gets one of these tags. I don't agree with the "open market concept" of it, we're treating the wildlife like a commodity at this point. I know plenty of people here who buy a parcel just because they know they can get 10-15k a tag from it every year. The system itself is a good idea, and as someone whose lived in multiple states with the point systems, im super grateful for the lottery.

 

[wind gypsy]

Haven’t read the whole thread.. thought this was going to be about epsteins Zoro trust winning the lotto..

 

[Gila]

The dept is calling the e-plus system permanent and won’t be making any changes this year. The elk herds are declining on the Gila units now. Predation and drought is the usual rubber stamp. They will do what they always do which is reduce the number of tags in the public draw first and go to primitive weapon hunts. When the elk are gone on public they will pull the Unit Wide LO tags. Unit 9 is a prime example of e-plus management. There is a chance that the outfitter pool could go away putting an additional 6% into the resident pool and 4% into the non-resident pool (90-10). However I am not going to hold my breath…

 

[swavescatter]

Yes It's being exploited. I'm a new mexico landowner that gets one of these tags. I don't agree with the "open market concept" of it, we're treating the wildlife like a commodity at this point. I know plenty of people here who buy a parcel just because they know they can get 10-15k a tag from it every year. The system itself is a good idea, and as someone whose lived in multiple states with the point systems, im super grateful for the lottery.

But you are taking the incentive and opening your private land to public elk hunters which is exactly the point. I bought a good chunk of private land in a primo unit and have the same decision to make. I don't think I'm going to do it, but the point is that I'm on the fence. The incentive is working.

 

[NMELK1118]

But you are taking the incentive and opening your private land to public elk hunters which is exactly the point. I bought a good chunk of private land in a primo unit and have the same decision to make. I don't think I'm going to do it, but the point is that I'm on the fence. The incentive is working.

It's working, the part that I don't agree with is that I can openly sell my tag for whatever someone is willing to pay, which I have no intention of doing. I can get 10-12k for that tag, but my draw odds are around 5% as a resident, so the investment was worth it to me for the tag every year.

 

[Ten Bears]

sweet burner account.

 

[swavescatter]

It's working, the part that I don't agree with is that I can openly sell my tag for whatever someone is willing to pay, which I have no intention of doing. I can get 10-12k for that tag, but my draw odds are around 5% as a resident, so the investment was worth it to me for the tag every year.

Without that cash value, a good chunk of private land owners would not be taking the incentive. Therefore, the incentive is properly weighted. If transfers were not allowed, there would be a whole lot less privately accessible land.

The system is not win-win for everyone, but to me as a resident public land hunter that has never purchased an LO tag I appreciate the heck out of the system and use that access often on nearly every hunt.

 

[abqbw]

So much misinformation and lack of context about New Mexico tag privatization. Most people are not aware of the massive degree to which New Mexico is a tag privatization outlier compared to every other western state. To Wit: NM only issues 5% of total elk tags in the 8 state intermountain west region (AZ.NV, UT, CO, WY. ID, and MT). yet out of this tiny slice of elk tags in the region, NM issues 72% of all of the transferable private landowner tags in the entire 8 state region. NM issues more than TWICE as many transferable private landowner elk tags than the other 7 states COMBINED. Again, out of only 5% of the region's total elk tags.

Nearly 40% of New Mexico's elk tags are transferable private landowner tags. The most in any other intermountain west state is about 3% of total elk tags. Meaning New Mexico privatizes more than a 12 times larger share of its elk tags than any other state.

If NM with 5% of the region's elk tags only issued 5%, 10%, or even 15% of the region's transferable private elk tags this New Mexican wouldn't think much of it. But 72%? That's just crazy and corrupt and a complete abdication of New Mexico's public trust doctrine obligations to its residents. Also an abandonment of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation.

Then there is the unit wide EPLUS private elk tags. Opens public access. Great, right? But if you dig deeper there really is no informed conclusion other than that EPLUS unit wide is probably the dirtiest most corrupt public trust doctrine busting big game tag allocation system in the west.

Here is why. Whether to select unit wide or ranch only is strictly voluntary to the landowner. There is no minimum "ranch" size standard. "Ranches as small as 2 acres receive unit wide tags. There are over 700 "ranches" 50 acres or less that are granted unit wide private elk permits. Almost 400 of them are 25 acres or less.120 are 10 acess or less. The unit wide tags and public access they generate are tiny properties spread all over hell in the GMUs. That's the access the public gains. But on the private tag access side of the ledger total the public land access gained for the unit wide private tags in the primary elk management zone is 9.9 million acres for the approx 2800 private unit wide tag buyers. 9.9 million acres of giant tracts of some of the best elk hunting public land in North America. For 2800 hunters that paid $5,000 to $40,000 or more for a private tag to hunt it. In return approx 20,000 public draw hunters gain access to about 650,000 acres of tiny private tracts spread all over hell. That is the public/private trade.

But the real kick in the pants for the public is that since a landowner must allow all the public tag holders on their property if they pick unit wide and do not have to provide any public access if they select ranch only. Obviously the only landowners that are going to pick unit wide and deal with the public access they have to grant are landowners whose private elk tags aren't worth a plugged nickel because there are few or no elk to hunt on their land during hunting season. On the flip side, the public access to these unit wide private lands isn't worth a plugged nickel. For all these reasons EPLUS unit wide is just a rent-seeking ruse to grant landowners that own substandard elk hunting land the ability to privately sell public elk and public elk hunting to on public land to really wealthy hunters under the guise that it is a public hunting access program.

Sure in a massive program like EPLUS unit wide there are islolated instances where a unit wide agreement is a square deal for the public. I'm sure there will be some posts from people that say they had a good hunt on a unit wide property. But that's like saying a fentanyl dealer donated $1,000 of profits to a school so fentanyl dealing is a good thing. EPLUS is public policy that allocates a public trust natural resource. Therefore legitimate analysis must consider the whole.

Anyone that believes in the special public nature of wildlife and hunting in America should be appalled by the wholesale privatization of big game and big game tags by the New Mexico Game Commission. And pray like hell it never comes to their state. Seriously, can you imagine if the rest of the west allocated big game tags privately as New Mexico does and over 1/3 of the west's big game tags were wiped off the map? 40% of elk, 65% of pronghorn, 23% of deer tags just removed from the public domain by government officials and shifted over to the private domain for the exclusive benefit of wealthy hunters, landowners, and outfitters.