New Kahles 328i FOV

[Article 4]

Disclaimer. Huge Kahles fan. Own 7 of them and they are the absolute best of the best in all aspects. But before I go invest in another, wonder what everyone’s opinion is on FOV with scopes. Is more always better?
No pricing in this yet but feeling like 3500 to 3800 seems real.

 

[28bang]

I prefer more FOV on the bottom end. I had two k318s and the narrow FOV drove me to sell them. This fixes that obviously and then some. Will be ordering one.

 

[Quicksilver]

Hoping it’s the cats meow, it would be a good option for an upper end scope. Only person I know running Khales right now is sponsored so that also speaks something…

 

[Xycod]

More is always better, it’s more info to process. Is 2 eyes bettter than one sort of thing. 28 degrees is huge in a rifle scope, it’s next gen and actual innovation compared to anything currently offered as far as I know.
Got one on order now.

Rifle scopes should all list the fov of the eyepiece in degrees like binos and spotters. For comparison a zco, tt, Zeiss v8, older victory diavari v series, swaro z8, all have around 24 degree fov’s.

Imo it’ll be more beneficial for hunting than prs. Hope swaro goes to the same eyepiece on their scopes.

 

[Article 4]

Hoping it’s the cats meow, it would be a good option for an upper end scope. Only person I know running Khales right now is sponsored so that also speaks something…

I hear you, they are $$$$$ for sure. I have run just about every LR scope you can think of from 5 or 6 makers and IMO the Kahles is the cats meow
Sawro owns them so you get Swaro glass with NF like mechs. Hard to beat

 

[madcalfe]

I hear you, they are $$$$$ for sure. I have run just about every LR scope you can think of from 5 or 6 makers and IMO the Kahles is the cats meow
Sawro owns them so you get Swaro glass with NF like mechs. Hard to beat

you do not get NF like mechanicals lmao. I went through 2 K318i in 2 years.
first one the internals completely came apart rendering the scope useless. Swarvo replaced that instantly. 2nd time illumination knob started to come off and wouldn't hold a zero after being in a padded case with a jacket wrapped around the scope inside of the case. I also have the gun drawer lined with foam mattresses. so were talking 6" of foam on both sides of the rifle plus it being in a case between both foamies.

My ATACR on the other hand doesn't even get put in a rifle case and it hasn't skipped a beat.
will say Kahles glass is noticeably better than my ATACR but the durability isn't there for me.

 

[Quicksilver]

I compared a buddies 7-35 atacr to my 4.5-28 March scope…fit and finish goes to the March, but glass you have to jump back and forth trying to decide. I still think March overall had the edge for glass. But that 7-35 was impressive!

 

[JohnJohnson]

Swaro (who owns Kahles) has a few more years on their criminally stupid FOV patent so I guess they're taking advantage of it. I avoid their brand when I can now because of that, though I still use their binos since they fit my eyes the best and I bought them before I found out. The way the Kahles 328i is going to be priced, I doubt it would beat out ZCO for roughly the same money.

 

[Article 4]

you do not get NF like mechanicals lmao. I went through 2 K318i in 2 years.
first one the internals completely came apart rendering the scope useless. Swarvo replaced that instantly. 2nd time illumination knob started to come off and wouldn't hold a zero after being in a padded case with a jacket wrapped around the scope inside of the case. I also have the gun drawer lined with foam mattresses. so were talking 6" of foam on both sides of the rifle plus it being in a case between both foamies.

My ATACR on the other hand doesn't even get put in a rifle case and it hasn't skipped a beat.
will say Kahles glass is noticeably better than my ATACR but the durability isn't there for me.

Everyone has a different experience and IMO if you are spending 3-4 k on a scope, get what you want at that level and you cannot go wrong

This is what did it for me, about 5 years ago when I was on a horse hunt at -19 in Montana. When dismounting my horse, he slide on ice and ejected me onto the ground, straight on my back and on top of my rifle and my K624 scope. Was truly concerned until i laid down and checked my zero, it was spot on. No change - zero's 3 shots <1/2 MOA - then trued my tracking at 550 and spot on.

I run a tracking board on all my scopes. I have owned Mark 5's - NXS's and run ATACRs as well. The Kahles is the only one that ran the tracking board without missing a beat. Over and Over. (they dont pay me either) LMAO

 

[Formidilosus]

Everyone has a different experience

Sure.

and IMO if you are spending 3-4 k on a scope, get what you want at that level and you cannot go wrong

There is vast difference in demonstrable performance in zero retention, reliability, and durability of all scopes, and the expensive ones are no different.

Kahles will lose zero consistently from side impacts, and legitimate functional issues with zero retention and dialing as @madcalfe experienced are not uncommon.

 

[270quest]

I don't' have experience with one so they could be junk for all i know, but if I was looking at a 3-4k scope, a S&B PM II 5-25X would probably be near the top of the list....

 

[Article 4]

Sure.



There is vast difference in demonstrable performance in zero retention, reliability, and durability of all scopes, and the expensive ones are no different.

Kahles will lose zero consistently from side impacts, and legitimate functional issues with zero retention and dialing as @madcalfe experienced are not uncommon.

Data is pretty strong for the brand amongst comp shooters...must track terribly.

 

[Formidilosus]

Data is pretty strong for the brand amongst comp shooters...must track terribly.

Is there something in there about zero retention from impacts? And before you say PRS shooters “abuse” or “beat up” their gear- no, they don’t.

 

[Piercision Rifles]

Ive had almost every high end scope and used them on hunts. Tangent, zco, kahles, and NF.
Zeiss, leupold and vortex aren't in the same league, sorry. The only ones that haven't had a problem is my NF ATACR scopes. I have the 4-20 on all my hunting rifles because of the durability, which cant be beat. Ill take a smidge less clarity than the more expensive optics for the durability offered by the ATACR. The difference in glass quality will make a difference far less than having your scope take a crap on you in the middle of nowhere. Parallax going out was a common theme on the other scopes. One went out on a customers $30k+ sheep hunt. Alot but not all of the issues was with the top scopes installed in SPUHR mounts which grab the scope too close to the turret housing. Torque the rings tight enough to prevent slipping of the heavy scope in the rings with lightweight magnums and youd induce stress onto the scope and parallax would go out. If you torqued it light enough to not induce stress the scope would slip due to recoil. The solution was to bed the scope in the spuhr mounts. However I still had a couple scopes parallax crap out with bedded spuhr mounts and other rings setups. Some brands had a 10% failure rate from customers in 2 years or less of field use. The solution for me was the NF ATACR bedded into the NF ultralight rings. ATACR = bombproof. Its taken some solid bumps and hits and zero hasn't moved etc.

 

[fwafwow]

 

[Article 4]

Is there something in there about zero retention from impacts? And before you say PRS shooters “abuse” or “beat up” their gear- no, they don’t.

Net Zero Retention from Impacts? New term. Looked it up online as it pertains to rifle scopes and nothing there. Do you have a definition, data, or reliable study that shows how that is defined and gauged?

Yeah, we do run our gear harder than almost anyone else. Expensive scopes do make a difference. I LOVE Nighforce and even like Vortex for certain things. I am not sponsored by either so no skin in the game other than running with is the best for me and my hard earned $$$$. No Experience with Tangent other than seeing a few at the range, so no opinion there.

I provided data on use to support tracking confidence and reliability. Do you have any data to support your opinion - or is it just conjecture, again?

 

[Article 4]

Ive had almost every high end scope and used them on hunts. Tangent, zco, kahles, and NF.
Zeiss, leupold and vortex aren't in the same league, sorry. The only ones that haven't had a problem is my NF ATACR scopes. I have the 4-20 on all my hunting rifles because of the durability, which cant be beat. Ill take a smidge less clarity than the more expensive optics for the durability offered by the ATACR. The difference in glass quality will make a difference far less than having your scope take a crap on you in the middle of nowhere. Parallax going out was a common theme on the other scopes. One went out on a customers $30k+ sheep hunt. Alot but not all of the issues was with the top scopes installed in SPUHR mounts which grab the scope too close to the turret housing. Torque the rings tight enough to prevent slipping of the heavy scope in the rings with lightweight magnums and youd induce stress onto the scope and parallax would go out. If you torqued it light enough to not induce stress the scope would slip due to recoil. The solution was to bed the scope in the spuhr mounts. However I still had a couple scopes parallax crap out with bedded spuhr mounts and other rings setups. Some brands had a 10% failure rate from customers in 2 years or less of field use. The solution for me was the NF ATACR bedded into the NF ultralight rings. ATACR = bombproof. Its taken some solid bumps and hits and zero hasn't moved etc.

Agree that Zeiss, LEU, and VRTX are not in the same league at all. I love an ATACR having run a couple in the past. In fact, I still use the NF rings to run all the Kahles scopes.
I bought a Kahles off a shooter friend in 2017 cause he needed the money, and once I looked through the KAHLES glass next to the others, I was sold; and it is 1/3 lb lighter. So much so, that I bought 7 of them. I am a huge believer in having every rifle scope use the same reticle and use the same functions. I have the K624i LSW with the SKMR reticles. So clean.
Will probably grab a 328 to see how it compares. If so, I might be out a lot of $$$ and some folks here might be able to pick up some 624's for a discounted price LOL

 

[Dobermann]

Data is pretty strong for the brand amongst comp shooters...must track terribly.

FWIW ... PRB is not necessarily a high-quality source of info, and the 'What the pros use' type lists are skewed in all sorts of ways. It's a logical fallacy to say that because people use something, it works.

Lots of info here on scope testing - have you checked out the Rifle Scope Field Evaluations sub-forum?: https://rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/

 

[Article 4]

FWIW ... PRB is not necessarily a high-quality source of info, and the 'What the pros use' type lists are skewed in all sorts of ways. It's a logical fallacy to say that because people use something, it works.

Lots of info here on scope testing - have you checked out the Rifle Scope Field Evaluations sub-forum?: https://rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/

Yes. I didn’t save the PP showing tracking performance

FWIW ... PRB is not necessarily a high-quality source of info, and the 'What the pros use' type lists are skewed in all sorts of ways. It's a logical fallacy to say that because people use something, it works.

Lots of info here on scope testing - have you checked out the Rifle Scope Field Evaluations sub-forum?: https://rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/

PRB is fine. It’s also a good illustration of who is running what scopes.

When testing was done on Snipers hide only the NF and Kahles scored the highest in tracking of more than 20 scopes.

 

[JohnJohnson]

When testing was done on Snipers hide only the NF and Kahles scored the highest in tracking of more than 20 scopes.

The Vortex Razor G2 scored just as well, if we're being transparent here. Plus weren't most of them accurate within 1-2% error at full travel?