New Kahles 328i FOV

[Quicksilver]

Is there something in there about zero retention from impacts? And before you say PRS shooters “abuse” or “beat up” their gear- no, they don’t.

I thought the same thing, a lot of scopes will be reliable slinging turrets as seen with the heavy use of the leupold mk5 in prs. They’re on heavy guns that don’t recoil. So you tapped your scope against a barricade or it touched a piece of wood.,.that’s not running your gear hard as others may think

Net Zero Retention from Impacts? New term. Looked it up online as it pertains to rifle scopes and nothing there. Do you have a definition, data, or reliable study that shows how that is defined and gauged?

Yeah, we do run our gear harder than almost anyone else. Expensive scopes do make a difference. I LOVE Nighforce and even like Vortex for certain things. I am not sponsored by either so no skin in the game other than running with is the best for me and my hard earned $$$$. No Experience with Tangent other than seeing a few at the range, so no opinion there.

I provided data on use to support tracking confidence and reliability. Do you have any data to support your opinion - or is it just conjecture, again?

Hold up, is that last paragraph for real? Serious question.

 

[Quicksilver]

The Vortex Razor G2 scored just as well, if we're being transparent here. Plus weren't most of them accurate within 1-2% error at full travel?

Gen 2 is the only vortex I’m a big fan of. Run one on my prs rig. It did really well in some of Frank’s tracking tests on the hide.

 

[Quicksilver]

Ive had almost every high end scope and used them on hunts. Tangent, zco, kahles, and NF.
Zeiss, leupold and vortex aren't in the same league, sorry. The only ones that haven't had a problem is my NF ATACR scopes. I have the 4-20 on all my hunting rifles because of the durability, which cant be beat. Ill take a smidge less clarity than the more expensive optics for the durability offered by the ATACR. The difference in glass quality will make a difference far less than having your scope take a crap on you in the middle of nowhere. Parallax going out was a common theme on the other scopes. One went out on a customers $30k+ sheep hunt. Alot but not all of the issues was with the top scopes installed in SPUHR mounts which grab the scope too close to the turret housing. Torque the rings tight enough to prevent slipping of the heavy scope in the rings with lightweight magnums and youd induce stress onto the scope and parallax would go out. If you torqued it light enough to not induce stress the scope would slip due to recoil. The solution was to bed the scope in the spuhr mounts. However I still had a couple scopes parallax crap out with bedded spuhr mounts and other rings setups. Some brands had a 10% failure rate from customers in 2 years or less of field use. The solution for me was the NF ATACR bedded into the NF ultralight rings. ATACR = bombproof. Its taken some solid bumps and hits and zero hasn't moved etc.

Not sure which I was more excited about, your rifle bedding or the scope bedding when I got my rifle

 

[wind gypsy]

My sample of 1 kahles 624i tracks dead nuts (from a static mount on a calibrated target). Frank and Marc indicated that’s common with kahles on their tracking tests when I did one of their classes. No issues on some range queen rifles over the years. I have seen enough stories to make me not think they are the most robust in rough use though.

 

[Dobermann]

What and how Frank and Marc do testing is different from what and how @Formidilosus does evaluations.

[I know @wind gypsy knows this; this is more for others in the thread ...]

 

[Article 4]

I thought the same thing, a lot of scopes will be reliable slinging turrets as seen with the heavy use of the leupold mk5 in prs. They’re on heavy guns that don’t recoil. So you tapped your scope against a barricade or it touched a piece of wood.,.that’s not running your gear hard as others may think

Hold up, is that last paragraph for real? Serious question.

Yes its real. Why would you ask that?
IME a lot of folks have opinion, me included. Very few have actual data....studies, or reliable numbers that are more than "mine did this"
So when someone uses actual testing or data, and someone else says that is not true, isn't it acceptable to ask for supporting data? Yes it is.

 

[Quicksilver]

Yes its real. Why would you ask that?
IME a lot of folks have opinion, me included. Very few have actual data....studies, or reliable numbers that are more than "mine did this"
So when someone uses actual testing or data, and someone else says that is not true, isn't it acceptable to ask for supporting data? Yes it is.

I’m just more surprised you haven’t seen @Formidilosus extensive scope tests he’s done is all. Now these aren’t just tracking tests, but as much torture as one will see in the field minus losing their rifle off a cliff. Lots of tests with well documented data.

 

[Article 4]

I’m just more surprised you haven’t seen @Formidilosus extensive scope tests he’s done is all. Now these aren’t just tracking tests, but as much torture as one will see in the field minus losing their rifle off a cliff. Lots of tests with well documented data.

Thank you for supporting my point.

We are getting way off task here though. The original question was around FOV....since Kahles is coming out with a scope that provides significantly more....then it has to be better, if we value opinions on this thread.

 

[Quicksilver]

Thank you for supporting my point.

We are getting way off task here though. The original question was around FOV....since Kahles is coming out with a scope that provides significantly more....then it has to be better, if we value opinions on this thread.

Hoping this new scope is durable and passed some abuse tests, could be a game changer if it does.

 

[Article 4]

Hoping this new scope is durable and passed some abuse tests, could be a game changer if it does.

True. Probably going to run one and find out.

 

[fwafwow]

Someone should send one in for testing.

 

[Article 4]

Someone should send one in for testing.

Agree - once I get it in March or April, when they are supposed to be available, Ill run a tracking board and other tests to see how it compares to the 624 and 525

 

[fwafwow]

Agree - once I get it in March or April, when they are supposed to be available, Ill run a tracking board and other tests to see how it compares to the 624 and 525

I have little doubt it will track. Will the other tests include dropping it?

 

[Article 4]

I have little doubt it will track. Will the other tests include dropping it?

bahaha - not on purpose anyway

 

[fwafwow]

bahaha - not on purpose anyway

 

[madcalfe]

The Kahles will track perfect out of the box. No one here is saying it won’t. But it’s not a durable scope, I’d be willing to bet a Kahles won’t even hold zero riding in a gun rack on a quad after being bounced around.

 

[Article 4]

The Kahles will track perfect out of the box. No one here is saying it won’t. But it’s not a durable scope, I’d be willing to bet a Kahles won’t even hold zero riding in a gun rack on a quad after being bounced around.

Do you have personal experience with one?
See previous example of falling off of a horse onto the scope and holding zero.

 

[madcalfe]

Here is the first Kahles k318i I owned. The internals completely broke.

Here’s the brands new replacement the illumination knob was binding and coming off notice the gap between the housing and knob. It would only turn about 1/4 way before locking up

 

[madcalfe]

And here is the Kahles now sitting on a 17hmr being used for grouse cause I don’t trust it on my sheep hunting gun anymore

 

[Article 4]

View attachment 674334
View attachment 674333
Here is the first Kahles k318i I owned. The internals completely broke.

Here’s the brands new replacement the illumination knob was binding and coming off notice the gap between the housing and knob. It would only turn about 1/4 way before locking up

View attachment 674335

Yup, looks like you had a bad experience. So I hear you and if that is your interaction experience, you are definitely right to have that opinion. They aren't cheap to own. Hope they fixed it for you.

I have personal experience with many scopes that have a one off issue here and there including NF's, Leupold, and Vortex. All had to be sent back and either repaired or replaced. It does happen.


This post is more about FOV, and I know we got off center, including me....I am looking forward to ordering some 328s to test in April