New Hunter, rifle upgrade, is 280AI the right choice?

[Nicaburns]

I agree with what has been said… drop your current savage action into a stocky’s VG2 and it will do everything you need! Spend the extra money on ammo and practice time.

 

[Ztm91]

Never take it lightly, the taking of a life. My personal goal is to do everything I can to make sure that an animal doesn’t know what hit it if I can. I owe him that respect.

I totally agree with you here. I second that goal.

 

[Ztm91]

I agree with what has been said… drop your current savage action into a stocky’s VG2 and it will do everything you need! Spend the extra money on ammo and practice time.

I would certainly be open to trying this. Unfortunately, it looks like they only have left hand savage stocks for bottom bolt release models. They don’t have it available for top bolt release models like mine..

 

[grizz19]

I’m going to second what a lot of guys have set on here. Find a rifle that will have minimum recoil, that you can shoot well, and run it. I used to be a 7mm and larger guy. I just built a 25 creed as my “do all rifle” and am getting ready to sell my 7 prc. Pair a good bullet with whatever you choose and let it rip. My dad has a 280 AI and it’s an awesome round. Could you just find a new stock for what you currently have and drop your weight down? I have one of those chassis’s myself and they are heavy. You could cut a couple lbs if you could find a carbon stock for your set up.

 

[Trogon]

There’s a seekins ph3 in 6.5 creed in the classifieds that would be perfect, if you must have a new rifle

 

[fuzzymarindave]

My 25 year old son just dropped his first bull elk with a 280AI. It is a lefty Weatherby Mark V Backcountry 2.0. He started with a Savage .243 which we swapped barrels into .308 and 7mm-08. The 280AI adds a little more and the extra recoil was manageable for him. I think it would be a great option.

 

[JeffRaines]

Yup once you develop a flinch, you own it.

OP - heed this warning. I started with a lightweight 30-06, and subsequently developed a flinch that took THOUSANDS of rounds to get under control.

280ai is a great cartridge... for a reloader. I have one. I love it. Would I recommend it for someone who doesn't reload? Absolutely not. Feeding the thing factory ammo would be expensive when you can find it. I'm the type that believes in practicing with the rifle you plan to use, so going out and shooting over a box of ammo in an outing is a thing and I just couldn't fathom doing that with that cartridge without reloading.

What you have now is more than enough to kill anything(within reason) regardless of what the haters have to say(just go read the 6mm/223 threads - those are both smaller than what you have and they kill just fine). I say within reason - I doubt youre going to be shooting something at 1k. At nominal hunting distances you dont need anything else.

Have you looked into a lighter weight stock? That Oryx weighs 4.2lbs by itself, I dont see why you couldn't cut that in half.

 

[UnckleBob]

I am new to both hunting and shooting a rifle. I bought and started shooting my first rifle this July. It is a savage ultralight in 6.5 creedmoor with an oryx chassis. The rifle is certainly more capable than I am, but also it weighs 12lbs. I am considering something a bit lighter, with a bit more authority. Being completely new to shooting a rifle, I also don’t want to go too light. Another complicating factor is I shoot left handed. At the top of the list currently is a Weatherby High Country in 280AI. From my research that seems like a good step up with a bit more energy, but with more manageable recoil in a lightweight platform vs the 7prc. The High Country is a little lighter than I would like, but I think I could get it to a manageable weight once bipod, scope, and arca rail are considered. I live in Idaho and will primarily be hunting deer and elk, but I would like to have something that is applicable for caribou, moose, etc as well.

From all the reading and podcasts I have listened to, the 280AI sounds like a good choice for me, just seems to be less readily available ammo choices in stores. The Boise Scheels has tons of variety for 7prc ammunition for example and one choice for 280AI. I would not be opposed to reloading in the future.

My current rifle certainly gets the job done. I just got back from my first hunt in Wyoming and was able to harvest a buck, drt first shot. Last week of October I’ll be going out with a deer, elk, and black bear tag in Idaho.

For a do it all rifle in the future, which would be more applicable for a new hunter/shooter? 280AI or 7prc? Also, the high country can be custom ordered with a carbon barrel as well. Any benefits there from an accuracy or weather resistance standpoint vs the steel barrel? The negative I see is the only barrel length available in carbon is 22” vs the 24” stock steel barrel. Research seems to indicate that the 24” barrel length is the sweet spot for peak performance with the 280AI (I will be shooting with a brake vs a suppressor)

Put it back in the High Country’s original stock and you'll have a good mid-weight hunting rifle. Mine is 8.1 lbs with rings and a light scope on it. If you add other accessories including a supressor, you will not end up with a lightweight rifle,

The Savage action is not the slickest, but my rifle is more accurate than I need for a hunting rifle.

But, my 280AI is something I built myself on an Origin Action. It definitely is more powerful than my Savage. It's a little heavier and has more recoil than the Savage. I did not really "nead" it. I just wanted it. As @JeffRaines said, it is a reloader's cartridge.

If you are just looking to buy a new rifle, get a Tikka or X Bolt in 270. You get a little more power over the 6.5 CM without the recoil of the 7mm RM or PRC.

 

[eric1115]

I'll pile on as well... I think you're going about this in essentially the right way. Looking for a solution to give you most effective killing tool and trying to build proficiency with that tool.

You listen to the Exo podcast, I would strongly encourage you to re-listen to episodes 469 and 470. I get the conventional wisdom of more "whallop" or "authority" or however else a person might describe a larger bullet moving faster. But you should consider that nobody I know of who advocates for bigger cartridges as a more effective general killing tool has used the projectiles that we small cartridge zealots recommend. I know of no one who has killed several animals with .22 or 6mm ELD or TMK's and felt they were marginal in any way.

The ammo budget would have to be well over a thousand dollars per year to get to a point where I'd recommend even a CM over a .223 for an "only" hunting rifles. If you are shooting sub-450 yards, a .223 with 77TMK's will kill great and $1k gets you well over 1000 practice rounds plus 100 hunting rounds to re-zero, verify trajectory and hunt. $1k with a .280AI gets you 300ish rounds total. There's no way a 300 round per year shooter is going to out-shoot a 1000-1200 round per year shooter at any distance.

I'd go so far as to say literally nobody is best served by a .280AI (or maybe even 6n5CM) as an "only rifle". If you own a .223 and get 2k rounds of practice on that plus a few hundred on a larger cartridge (for me that's a .243AI) then maybe we're talking about something worthwhile.

Idaho resident here, I sold my 7mmRM to fund that .243AI as my do-everything rifle and have zero regrets. Putting the bullet exactly where you want and spotting your impact is 10x more important than diameter or energy.

 

[Ztm91]

I'll pile on as well... I think you're going about this in essentially the right way. Looking for a solution to give you most effective killing tool and trying to build proficiency with that tool.

You listen to the Exo podcast, I would strongly encourage you to re-listen to episodes 469 and 470. I get the conventional wisdom of more "whallop" or "authority" or however else a person might describe a larger bullet moving faster. But you should consider that nobody I know of who advocates for bigger cartridges as a more effective general killing tool has used the projectiles that we small cartridge zealots recommend. I know of no one who has killed several animals with .22 or 6mm ELD or TMK's and felt they were marginal in any way.

The ammo budget would have to be well over a thousand dollars per year to get to a point where I'd recommend even a CM over a .223 for an "only" hunting rifles. If you are shooting sub-450 yards, a .223 with 77TMK's will kill great and $1k gets you well over 1000 practice rounds plus 100 hunting rounds to re-zero, verify trajectory and hunt. $1k with a .280AI gets you 300ish rounds total. There's no way a 300 round per year shooter is going to out-shoot a 1000-1200 round per year shooter at any distance.

I'd go so far as to say literally nobody is best served by a .280AI (or maybe even 6n5CM) as an "only rifle". If you own a .223 and get 2k rounds of practice on that plus a few hundred on a larger cartridge (for me that's a .243AI) then maybe we're talking about something worthwhile.

Idaho resident here, I sold my 7mmRM to fund that .243AI as my do-everything rifle and have zero regrets. Putting the bullet exactly where you want and spotting your impact is 10x more important than diameter or energy.

Thank you, I think your summation of my goal here was more clearly stated than I was able to do so. With the potential idea of becoming skilled at shooting a bigger cartridge to ensure quick efficient harvest when firing a round at an animal. Not just hoping blowing dust off a bigger gun will be better when I do go hunting.

I understand I’m a new shooter and hunter, but even from this first summer I have a cardboard box full of brass in the garage from practicing already. I do not just go out and wing a bunch of shots at steel or paper at a range, I go out in the foothills and place those 4” self healing cubes on random rocks, go back to my position whether that be prone off a bipod or pack, seated off a tripod or hillside, quick stix, uphill, downhill etc, range, use my kestrel, dial, and fire one shot like a real hunting scenario and then start all over again for the next target.

I can see that at my desired ultimate range of 3-400 yards with 100% confidence, a smaller caliber rifle likely would get it done just fine. With my current rifle only hitting about 2500fps with 143 Eldx, the thought was perhaps I could get skilled at shooting something a step up. But maybe the best move may be keep my heavy ass current savage set up for bulk practice, and build a 6.5 setup that is a bitter lighter and with better performance.

 

[eric1115]

Thank you, I think your summation of my goal here was more clearly stated than I was able to do so. With the potential idea of becoming skilled at shooting a bigger cartridge to ensure quick efficient harvest when firing a round at an animal. Not just hoping blowing dust off a bigger gun will be better when I do go hunting.

I understand I’m a new shooter and hunter, but even from this first summer I have a cardboard box full of brass in the garage from practicing already. I do not just go out and wing a bunch of shots at steel or paper at a range, I go out in the foothills and place those 4” self healing cubes on random rocks, go back to my position whether that be prone off a bipod or pack, seated off a tripod or hillside, quick stix, uphill, downhill etc, range, use my kestrel, dial, and fire one shot like a real hunting scenario and then start all over again for the next target.

I can see that at my desired ultimate range of 3-400 yards with 100% confidence, a smaller caliber rifle likely would get it done just fine. With my current rifle only hitting about 2500fps with 143 Eldx, the thought was perhaps I could get skilled at shooting something a step up. But maybe the best move may be keep my heavy ass current savage set up for bulk practice, and build a 6.5 setup that is a bitter lighter and with better performance.

That is good, and far better than a lot of guys do. I'd encourage you to do/consider a few additional things (maybe you already do/will)...
-Practice follow up shots. Whether paper or steel, practice running the bolt firmly as soon as you see the result of your shot in the scope. Even on your single shot on the self-healers (assuming they get knocked off the rock and follow ups are not possible) run the bolt immediately to build that as an ingrained habit and shoot again in the event of a miss. Tons of guys shoot slow, often single feed at the range, and when something doesn't go to plan in the field the wheels come off pretty quickly.

-Reconsider suppressor. It's not an exaggeration to say it is the single best learning and shooting proficiency and hunting effectiveness change I've made in recent years. My kids are far better shooters (and so am I) because of suppressors. It's hard to overstate the difference in shooting experience between brake and can. Suffice to say I don't see myself owning another braked rifle ever again and I've sold off guns to to fund buying suppressors for all the guns I'm keeping. Do you have a brake on your current 6.5?

-If a suppressor does enter into the picture, a 6.5CM is likely approaching the upper end of recoil where you'll be able to reliably spot impacts through the scope. That's been part of the impetus for a lot of people going to smaller cartridges (myself included... If I still used muzzle brakes I'd have probably kept my 7mmRM, that gun shot great and I was able to watch everything happen through the scope. Switched to a suppressor and it bumped recoil up to where awkward field positions and/or shots under 400 were not reliable in terms of seeing impacts through the scope.

-A super heavy 6.5CM is nice to practice with if it's not braked, but has a couple downsides. It can hide some technique issues that will show up on a light rifle (especially if that light rifle has stouter recoil, ie same cartridge). It's a lot more forgiving of inconsistent inputs. Both before the shot and under recoil, you'll get away with far less inconsistency on a light CM than a heavy one. It's also expensive to shoot (relative to .223). 6.5CM ammo at $2/round vs $0.70/round for the very good ADI .223 adds up QUICK if you're shooting the volume needed to really build proficiency at ranges where a .223 starts to get marginal and a CM's extra range is a benefit.

Keep on reading before you make a rifle decision. I've seen quite a few guys get a rifle, decide it recoils too much, put a brake on it, discover how sweet suppressors are, and then sell the rifle to get something that recoils with a can the way the braked rifle did. I see one of them in the mirror every morning.