New fillys

[Preston]

I’ve been working with these fillys about 2-5 days a week since early January. I have taught them to lunge, back up, pull a sled, and have rode the bigger one about 15 times, has one serious wreck that could have ended badly, which set me back several weeks and loss of confidence. I’ve tried reading books by John Lyons and doing mostly ground work and desensitizing training, like bells, tin cans in saddle bags, chainsaws, tarps, ropes, etc. I paid a really good trainer for individual lessons on a weekly basis for four times, but need lots more attention on my part. I have so much to learn it’s overwhelming. I feel like it would be safer and cheaper in the long run to just pay for 60 days of training, because I don’t want to ruin them or make mistakes, or get myself seriously hurt. I tried introducing blood to the bigger one and she flipped out, she is definitely more spooky. The smaller app cross is super gentle and doesn’t spook on much of anything.

Is there anything I should be doing differently? I know it will take several years on my part to train these two horses to be considered mostly broke solid horses. And I understand they are barely 3 year olds. One thing I’m considering doing to leading one at a time tacked up carrying a pannier with sacks or pellets and just walking trails to get them and myself exposure, confidence, and walking in the woods by themselves and just me leading them.

I will never be in a situation to lead a packstring, since I only have two horses, and hunt/fish/recreate within 2-5 miles of the road 95% of the time. I appreciate any advice or help. Preston

 

[burrohiker]

Honestly trial by miles, it sounds like you are doing a great job. Keep that schedule up and you arer putting in 99% more work than most people.

Its a bit different, but when i got my first BLM burro, I decided for 1 year this is what I was going to do, 3 days a week in the summer and once/twice a week in the off season. Now that schedule has faded a bit, two years later, but it has made the foundation for a incredible animal.

 

[missjordan]

It takes A LOT of time to train a horse. And really takes the daily commitment to do them justice. Horses eb and flow too where it seems like one minute your making amazing gains and the next second your in a slump for a week or two. Then one day they just get it and you’ll feel relieved.

“First you go with them. Then they go with you. Then you go together”

Trainers have their purpose and are a great resource whether you use them to get your horse up to speed over 60-90 days or you use them to take lessons. But you still need to have the commitment yourself to get the finished product down the road.

If your committed to 4-6 days a week you will get there. In my opinion it’s easier with horses to have small goals in a shorter timeframe than large goals down the road. Kind of like going to the gym. You don’t start by training for a marathon in a week, you do it in small obtainable goals that get better everyday and eventually you’ll be running your marathon.

Start a journal. Write about your training sessions then when you get into a slump 6 months down the road you can review on what you’ve worked on and you’ll be proud at how far you’ve come.


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[Buck197]

I’ve been working with these fillys about 2-5 days a week since early January. I have taught them to lunge, back up, pull a sled, and have rode the bigger one about 15 times, has one serious wreck that could have ended badly, which set me back several weeks and loss of confidence. I’ve tried reading books by John Lyons and doing mostly ground work and desensitizing training, like bells, tin cans in saddle bags, chainsaws, tarps, ropes, etc. I paid a really good trainer for individual lessons on a weekly basis for four times, but need lots more attention on my part. I have so much to learn it’s overwhelming. I feel like it would be safer and cheaper in the long run to just pay for 60 days of training, because I don’t want to ruin them or make mistakes, or get myself seriously hurt. I tried introducing blood to the bigger one and she flipped out, she is definitely more spooky. The smaller app cross is super gentle and doesn’t spook on much of anything.

Is there anything I should be doing differently? I know it will take several years on my part to train these two horses to be considered mostly broke solid horses. And I understand they are barely 3 year olds. One thing I’m considering doing to leading one at a time tacked up carrying a pannier with sacks or pellets and just walking trails to get them and myself exposure, confidence, and walking in the woods by themselves and just me leading them.

I will never be in a situation to lead a packstring, since I only have two horses, and hunt/fish/recreate within 2-5 miles of the road 95% of the time. I appreciate any advice or help. Preston

Slow and easy. Wet saddle blankets. The more rides you put on them the better they will be. Like alot said, desensitized over and over. Be creative with it and find situations that may be unique to your style and setup and figure how to desensitized to it.
A few.mentioned respect, respect your horses and ensure they respect you. We all have our own methods for gaining this respect and trust of our horses. Be careful not to spoil them, alot of young stock have problems created by being spoiled.
Make sure you know how to control their hindquarters. If you can control a horses feet, well you mostly have em. Figure out what works for YOU. Watch videos and take points from them to create a method that works for you.
Like horses we are all individuals, what works for me may not for someone else. We all have different minds and bodies, like a horse.. sounds like you're off to a good start. Being as your experience in limited I'd ride that round pen til you're very confident in your abilities to control yourself, and your horse, and can quieten the hoss down in unforeseen circumstances.

 

[Preston]

Slow and easy. Wet saddle blankets. The more rides you put on them the better they will be. Like alot said, desensitized over and over. Be creative with it and find situations that may be unique to your style and setup and figure how to desensitized to it.
A few.mentioned respect, respect your horses and ensure they respect you. We all have our own methods for gaining this respect and trust of our horses. Be careful not to spoil them, alot of young stock have problems created by being spoiled.
Make sure you know how to control their hindquarters. If you can control a horses feet, well you mostly have em. Figure out what works for YOU. Watch videos and take points from them to create a method that works for you.
Like horses we are all individuals, what works for me may not for someone else. We all have different minds and bodies, like a horse.. sounds like you're off to a good start. Being as your experience in limited I'd ride that round pen til you're very confident in your abilities to control yourself, and your horse, and can quieten the hoss down in unforeseen circumstances.

The 3 posts above greatly helped me. I will only be riding in an arena trough this summer just due to safety. I had the horse rear up and I pulled her back on top of me. It knocked the hell out of us. It was on ice and super stupid on my part. I ground worked her this afternoon and she see to do better and I introduced blood for the second time and she is still really spooky. I walked her along our road and let about four cars pass by with no problem. I agree with the desensitization part and I plan to do a lot of ground work and maybe riding one day a week in a controlled environment. I appreciate the help.

 

[Preston]

Honestly trial by miles, it sounds like you are doing a great job. Keep that schedule up and you arer putting in 99% more work than most people.

Its a bit different, but when i got my first BLM burro, I decided for 1 year this is what I was going to do, 3 days a week in the summer and once/twice a week in the off season. Now that schedule has faded a bit, two years later, but it has made the foundation for an incredible animal.

I appreciate it. If I can just work them for 30 minutes to an hour a day I hope to see improvement

 

[Preston]

It takes A LOT of time to train a horse. And really takes the daily commitment to do them justice. Horses eb and flow too where it seems like one minute your making amazing gains and the next second your in a slump for a week or two. Then one day they just get it and you’ll feel relieved.

“First you go with them. Then they go with you. Then you go together”

Trainers have their purpose and are a great resource whether you use them to get your horse up to speed over 60-90 days or you use them to take lessons. But you still need to have the commitment yourself to get the finished product down the road.

If your committed to 4-6 days a week you will get there. In my opinion it’s easier with horses to have small goals in a shorter timeframe than large goals down the road. Kind of like going to the gym. You don’t start by training for a marathon in a week, you do it in small obtainable goals that get better everyday and eventually you’ll be running your marathon.

Start a journal. Write about your training sessions then when you get into a slump 6 months down the road you can review on what you’ve worked on and you’ll be proud at how far you’ve come.


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Thanks MissJordan, it seems like somedays one step forward and two steps back. I’ve learned to train around there resting times and not when they are hungry

 

[Lil-Rokslider]

Miles and wet saddle blankets.

I'm a farrier, so I think it's extra important they learn to be well mannered for farrier day.

 

[missjordan]

Thanks MissJordan, it seems like somedays one step forward and two steps back. I’ve learned to train around there resting times and not when they are hungry

Hang in there your just experiencing the process there’s nothing wrong with it. I do 90% of my riding in the arena and 10% out on the trails. The arena is where the training happens and the trails are for a break. My process is different than a lot of riders on this forum because I’m actively showing. There’s nothing wrong with that approach. You can always change it up when they get more solid. It’s a marathon not a sprint.

A good broke horse whether it’s a show horse, cow horse, English horse, or trail horse. A rider should be able to isolate each part of the horses body. Then recombine. Which are the shoulders, the rib cage, and the hind end. For trail and hunting this is all still important. You get this really good you’ve won half the battle already. The mind should follow along with all the other stuff your doing. Everything can be taught on the ground first then under saddle later. Groundwork is your foundation and your fall back option when confidence is shaken.

Doesn’t hurt to try and find someone to take lessons from either who has good broke horses to teach you the “feel” so you can bring it home for your horses too. We’ve all been there too with trying to squeeze a training session in at dinner time and things don’t go as planned


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[burrohiker]

This thread has a pile of positive good advice. Another thought I had on 60/90 day trainer tune ups to support what is said above-

We send a few quarter horses to trainers (reining, cow horse, etc) and help a lot of new folks out. Sending a horse to a trainer goes better for you, and the trainer, if you have specific objectives/goals in mind that you want them to work on. Stops, turns, destination, pack training, neck reining, behavioral quirks, etc.

Being too general with your ask will return general results, or they'll work on areas that are important to them, and not necessarily you. This will also help you seek out a trainer that meets your needs or discipline better and weed out those who do not.

 

[Buck197]

This just dawned on me, and very basic. You're lacking confidence it seems. If you're the slightest bit nervous or unsure stay off. If I've had a bad day I close my eyes blank my mind and let everything go. Those horses are going to sense nervous, and unsure and it's highly liable to create problems. Have a gamelan before you get on on what to work on. And ALWAYS end on a good note. If the horse or you mess up, don't get off. I have a rule 3 positives before I end any ride. I'm starting 4 new colts this week after major surgery and being out of intensive ca r e 6 weeks now, so this is stuff I have to think on myself as I haven't stepped up in a year now. Don't overthink before getting on, have your gamelan ahead of time and just stay clear minded and relaxed. That right there will help you as much as anything in my opinion

 

[Preston]

This just dawned on me, and very basic. You're lacking confidence it seems. If you're the slightest bit nervous or unsure stay off. If I've had a bad day I close my eyes blank my mind and let everything go. Those horses are going to sense nervous, and unsure and it's highly liable to create problems. Have a gamelan before you get on on what to work on. And ALWAYS end on a good note. If the horse or you mess up, don't get off. I have a rule 3 positives before I end any ride. I'm starting 4 new colts this week after major surgery and being out of intensive ca r e 6 weeks now, so this is stuff I have to think on myself as I haven't stepped up in a year now. Don't overthink before getting on, have your gamelan ahead of time and just stay clear minded and relaxed. That right there will help you as much as anything in my opinion

I appreciate it. I’m basically only riding in arena through this summer. I feel more confident in there to get the foundations down. I just don’t want to mess them up by my lack of training experience. This is one reason I’m using a trainer for both myself and horse on a weekly/biweekly basis.

 

[Preston]

I’ve got to ride her twice more and about a 6-10 ground work exercises. We had no issues, going to an outdoor arena this week. She has certain things that set her off, one is be hungry or working her when she hasn’t ate. I make sure she is feeding midday if I’m riding her after work.

 

[yfarm]

I appreciate it. I’m basically only riding in arena through this summer. I feel more confident in there to get the foundations down. I just don’t want to mess them up by my lack of training experience. This is one reason I’m using a trainer for both myself and horse on a weekly/biweekly basis.

Check out Billings livestock sales, they post past sales results
Lots of mules advertised on Ranch Mules, fewer on Texas Mules on fb. Buyer beware, there are scammers present on both sites that will copy other ads and repost as their stock. Usually can weed out by asking to facetime with the animal.

 

[BKehoe05]

Couple things: if you are a new or inexperienced rider you are making movements that are signals to all horses especially green horses. You would do well to get proper lessons from a riding instructor. Body English, hand movement and pressure are all things that horses adjust to. Think about the fly landing on a horse’s back, if they can feel that, they can feel your heart beating through the reins/lead rope.

Additionally keep in mind 30 days on any horse is regardless of who trains it, the horse is still green. I am NOT a horse trainer but I regularly turn out 120- 180 day horses that have 100 or so rides on them and they STILL are not broke.

A started horse can side pass, turn 360° on its front end & turn 360° on its back end in a 10 foot circle. That’s the bare minimum for a started horse. If your horse can’t do that, then you shouldn’t be on it.

When I am entering colt starting competitions, I am stepping on the horse on day 2 because I only have 100 days to turn it in to a semi competent show horse, but I still make sure I can one hand stop that horse and turn it.

As far as sending the horse to the trainer, you know that horse better than anybody. You are doing it correctly starting it yourself because it will translate to more solid emotional foundation. You’d be better served taking your horse to a colt starting trainer 1 day and then taking it home and working on the 2-3 things that the trainer suggests. Once you have gotten those things solid, go back to the trainer for 1 day and show the improvement, ask for the advice on corrections and ask them to teach you 2-3 more things. You will save money, learn more together as a team and you’ll be better off in the long run.

I believe I read above about issues with cans? I had a mare who hated plastic. Bottles, tarps, barrels, etc. she has never gotten over it but she’s a heck of a heel horse.

However, what you may want to do is save 2-3 milk jugs and tie them together almost like a necklace. Hang it over the saddle horn and move your horse in the round pen. Ask them to walk, trot and lope. If they buck or throw a fit you keep sending them around until they stop whatever they are doing in response to the noise, motion, feel or whatever and then give them a break. Do that until your horse doesn’t concern itself with the scary objects.

I could go on forever but I’ll stop now.

 

[Preston]

I appreciate your advice. So to make sure I understand you make sure your horse can turn its front end and hindquarters in a pivot in a 10’ circle before you ride them? So you do this through ground work exercises? I’ve been doing this ever time I work them and they have the hindquarters down, but I need help with the front end.

Im okay with it taking a few years to have a solid broke horse. I don’t expect to have anything I can ride freely until sometime next year. Im doing all my rides in an arena. She only has under 15 or so rides over a 4 month period, and I rode her lightly last fall.

I will try your milk jug tip. I’ve been using beer cans in a saddle bags.

Do you think training them to carry a packsaddle and go on trails before they are saddle broke will help train them to be better on trails and get used to spooky stuff? I lead them along the road away from house, but would venture out to trails this summer.

I mostly want a horse I can lead into the backcountry with horse food/gear, and my light camping stuff and stay for a day or two. Or carry out an elk, deer, etc in several trips.

I’m going back for another lesson on her this afternoon. Thanks

 

[BKehoe05]

You definitely understand me correctly on the 10’ circle. In my opinion it is FAR harder to get them to yield their front end than the back end. If the front end is sticky teach them to side pass and then focus on the front end. Usually the front end requires a lot more energy from you and you need to get BIG when you want them to do something, especially in the beginning. They say with every horse: ask first, tell them second and make them third. You would be amazed what you will get from a horse when you follow that process. Ask them to move right, then tell them to move right by flicking your whip/flag and if they still don’t get it, you make them move (usually requires that whip or flag to make contact at that point).

As far as getting a horse ready for the trail, I would try to find someone with a trail savvy horse that knows how to pony young horses and I’d ask that person to do it for you. I have been blessed with some good using horses over the years that will handle young colts.


So every horse is different but I spend an exorbitant amount of time teaching them to get over stuff. I will start by throwing pool noodles, tarps, barrels, feed bags, cans and bottles on the ground in the round pen. When I feed them, the feed bags are on the ground in their pen and under the feed bucket. Then I hang a feed bag over their bucket. Then I’ll hang the cans and bottles, then the noodles and tarps. All of those things a horse can get desensitized to while eating thus expediting that part and allowing you to focus on stuff that horse can’t do without you.

Once that horse is over all of that BS, then move those items back into the round pen. On the ground and then tied to the fence allowing the wind to move them. All you have to do is lunge your horse around those things. You are teaching your horse to lunge, listen to you and ignore ALL of the other stuff around them. This teaches your horse to look to you as their leader when they are scared or upset instead of focusing on what makes them scared.

As far as taking them on trails, you need to be sure they respect pressure. If a horse gets to the end of the lead and knows they can pull away, get away or drag you, they will do that any time they want. You’ll need to solve that to be sure you can control your horse on the trail. Once that’s done, yes you should definitely lead them up the trail. Once you can make A full trip with little to no mental breaks, then I would saddle them and take them up the trail saddled. This is easier with a good using horse but we all will make due with the tools we have. Once you’ve gotten him up the trail with no issues, then go to State Line Tack and buy their over saddle canvas pack bags. I just bought a new set for $61.00 and they are worth every penny. You can easily put 50-70 lbs on each side and securely fasten it. Work them in the round pen until it’s not a concern there AND only then would I take them up the trail.

Additionally if there will be guns around, you should start desensitizing them to that while they eat. Shooting a couple hundred yards away and moving closer when you get little to no response from them. Even if you never intend to shoot off your horse, the more desensitizing you can do with that instant and deafening noise the better.

With any age or experience horse, if you see something pop up that they don’t like or react negatively to, you need to really focus on reenacting that scenario until it’s no longer an issue. One of my newest horses panicked over my daughter stoping her Jeep and then driving it forward with some aggression. That’s been a prime focus now, because I don’t want that happening on a road or god forbid on a trail with an ATV.

You are heading in the right direction. Just remember horses have short attention spans, so work on something and then work on something else and you are better doing 2 or 3, 15 minute sessions than 1, one hour session. Also since you are training two horses, tie the one horse up outside the round pen so they can watch you working the other horse and vice versa.

Last thing, I’ve had 30 broken bones and 26 surgeries including a broken back, most from either racing MX or riding rough stock and starting colts. There are WAY too many good horses to focus on fixing a bad one. If the horse seems like it’s got something it won’t get over, don’t be afraid to sell it and find another. Getting hung up, will only result in dangerous situations in your future.

Best of luck!

 

[BKehoe05]

One last thing you need to teach your horses to hobble. That is something I usually start on week one. There are multiple benefits to this, one you teach a horse to hobble for when you are backcountry. Two you teach that horse it’s much easier to stand in one place than it is to hop around, which makes saddling, catching and so forth that much easier. Three it teaches them to be ok with someone messing with their feet and it makes the farrier so much happier and number four, if you own horses you know they will kick at other horses, dogs, cats, flies or whatever is irritating them. If a horse kicks and gets it’s foot caught in a rope or a fence, it will teach them not to panic. It will teach them to stand and wait for someone to come help them. Teaching hobbling has saved me so many vet bills and in turn potential long term issues down the road.

Obviously you don’t want to teach them using the chain or leather hobbles you see on the market today because they will cut and bruise the legs of a horse new to hobbling, so you’ve got a couple options and at below I will explain how to get the cheapest option.
One you can use a lead rope without the clip on it (caveat, none of my lead ropes have a clip). Two you can go buy a length of cotton rope from a hardware store ( at $3/lf) or you can make your own cotton rope (it’s not as hard as you’d think).

Shameless plug here for Tractor Supply, they sell cotton braided lead ropes for $8-12. They are usually 8 or 10 lf and they come with large brass clips. If you pieced that together you are looking at a $35-40 investment. Instead you buy the cotton braided lead rope and cut the rope holding the clip. This now gives you a spare clip for gates or whatever. This gives you a lead rope with an end that starts to untwist. Untwist it all the way to the finished end this will leave you with 3 strings of about 1/2” cotton rope. Then use a piece of fishing line or mule tape or something similar to attach the finished end of the lead to a post. Walk all 3 strands of cotton rope back to the end and start to re-braid it. You don’t need it to be tight, just snug. Once you have re-braided tie off the look end in a simple knot and then cut off the tag end. This will give you an insanely strong, yet soft and flexible rope to use for hobbling.

If you PM me, I can probably send you a video of how to start all of that or we can even do a FaceTime or something and I can show you in real time.

 

[Preston]

One last thing you need to teach your horses to hobble. That is something I usually start on week one. There are multiple benefits to this, one you teach a horse to hobble for when you are backcountry. Two you teach that horse it’s much easier to stand in one place than it is to hop around, which makes saddling, catching and so forth that much easier. Three it teaches them to be ok with someone messing with their feet and it makes the farrier so much happier and number four, if you own horses you know they will kick at other horses, dogs, cats, flies or whatever is irritating them. If a horse kicks and gets it’s foot caught in a rope or a fence, it will teach them not to panic. It will teach them to stand and wait for someone to come help them. Teaching hobbling has saved me so many vet bills and in turn potential long term issues down the road.

Obviously you don’t want to teach them using the chain or leather hobbles you see on the market today because they will cut and bruise the legs of a horse new to hobbling, so you’ve got a couple options and at below I will explain how to get the cheapest option.
One you can use a lead rope without the clip on it (caveat, none of my lead ropes have a clip). Two you can go buy a length of cotton rope from a hardware store ( at $3/lf) or you can make your own cotton rope (it’s not as hard as you’d think).

Shameless plug here for Tractor Supply, they sell cotton braided lead ropes for $8-12. They are usually 8 or 10 lf and they come with large brass clips. If you pieced that together you are looking at a $35-40 investment. Instead you buy the cotton braided lead rope and cut the rope holding the clip. This now gives you a spare clip for gates or whatever. This gives you a lead rope with an end that starts to untwist. Untwist it all the way to the finished end this will leave you with 3 strings of about 1/2” cotton rope. Then use a piece of fishing line or mule tape or something similar to attach the finished end of the lead to a post. Walk all 3 strands of cotton rope back to the end and start to re-braid it. You don’t need it to be tight, just snug. Once you have re-braided tie off the look end in a simple knot and then cut off the tag end. This will give you an insanely strong, yet soft and flexible rope to use for hobbling.

If you PM me, I can probably send you a video of how to start all of that or we can even do a FaceTime or something and I can show you in real time.

Thanks for the information on hobbies. I plan to start that this summer. I have taught to lead with the front and rear feet, so hopefully hobble training goes smooth. I plan to stay right there with them, to avoid problems. I want to teach them to high line also.

I rode the bigger one for almost two hours this afternoon in the arena and there was a lot of distractions and horses/people around and she did great. I greatly appreciate your help. Preston

 

[BKehoe05]

Best of luck to you!

Someone else mentioned it earlier but a local or state BCHA is a great resource for help. I actually just joined